Can we hope... Can we maybe dream... Fantasize, that Lisa Sue is a brilliant woman...

I know pic related is me.

But just for a moment. What if 3DFX came up in a surprise, and challenged Nvidia. Maybe not beat them, but just having current 1080 performance at $500 would then be the obvious choice.

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I doubt AMD can afford to compete on both fronts. They chose to focus on CPUs because their sole competitor turned out to be lazy fucks. It's not really the same thing for Nvidia.

I don't think either. that Rory Read fuckhead gave the Radeon group too much liberty, and they messed up. I don't think AMD can do anything next many years.

Let's say Vega 7nm came out, and tweaked like Ryzen+ 12nm, it could even get a good foothold in the $500 market. But i doubt they're there...

The 3dfx brand was bought by nvidia. Maybe Intel could become the third major brand of graphics cards.

>the absolute state of AMDrones

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For the ML market, yes.

twice the HBM2 stacks and memory bandwidth
double precision FLOPS at a rate of 1:2
added ML operations?
and the 7nm process will fix the power usage of the Vega card.

AMD is an order of magnitude smaller than Intel or NVidia, they can't fight the processor wars on 2 fronts. I fully expect them to get working with 7nm Navis when R7 3700X blows i9-9900K to pieces on both price/performance and raw performance

>just before the shipments of RTX, that Vega 7nm is coming out
No. If they had a product, AMD would announce it beforehand. If not, they simply lose the sales from people who instead of waiting choose competitor product.

Would be nice to have AMD back offering something close to Nvidia but that's wishful thinking.
For now if you got the money and want the best just go with AMD cpu and nvidia GPU and call it a day while laughing at everyone else's choices.

>inb4 that user talking about nvidia drivers on linux
Meme is as old as amd has no drivers and he's just a pajeet who neither can install the shit himself or ask google on what to write and what repo to add.

Isn't 7nm still too early for GPUs?

What does Nvidia have to refresh with? They're already releasing the 2080ti

>AMD pls release new cards so I can continue to buy Nvidia cards but for slightly less money.

>They're already releasing the 2080ti
That's only because the trick of releasing a "high-end" gpu twice doesn't work anymore (normies didn't buy into 1080 as much as leatherman wanted and waited for 1080 ti) so they renamed 2080 to 2080 ti. True 2080 ti will be released ~3 months later under different naming.

If you think about it, their last good hi-end GPU was 290x. And it was 5 years ago.

If leatherjacket man knew what was good for him, he'd bring back dual-gpu cards and launch a 2090.

that's exacly what we need
no competition means we get fucked

AMD could make vega on 1nm and it would still be a hot, slow pile of shit that gets cucked on by nvidia's last gen cards.

They're doing it for professional market (except it's not dual-gpu but octa-gpu). Dual-gpu isn't that good because normies buy into SLI anyway and it's better for the most expensive GPU to be single-chip.

That's what you want but that's not how things work. RTG is in current state because you didn't buy their cards.

Clamoring for competition only to proceed with buying from a single vendor regardless of the product's merits will mean you're not going to have any competition. IE: the situation the gpu market is currently in.

The only one from the past that can pull a bullshit like that is PowerVR.
And they have a reason to do that, as apple kicked em out.

the wait game is getting worse every year

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I'm failing to see how AMD is doing poorly. They currently produce several excellent mid-range GPU's that sell perfectly fine.

I can't see much reason to fuss myself.

Even a 7nm chip wouldn't be competitive with the high end Turing offerings though. The new gen chips are stupid huge slabs of silicon precisely because they anticipated AMD trying to stay in the market with 7nm.

I doubt very much that they'll rush anything out after what happened with vega.

They don't have the xXxG4YM3RxXx Flagship NoVideo Titan card so they are obviously an inferior pajeet company.
Doesn't matter that you'll buy a 1050Ti, you know that Nvidia is THE BEST because they have THE MOST POWERFUL CARD ON THE MARKET.

nvidia.com/en-us/gtc/

>See You at GTC 2019, March 18-22.

Nvidia is releasing 7nm GPU architecture next year at GTC 2019 and next consumer GeForce will be have architecture derived from that in 2020 because Nvidia sticks to the 2 year cadence in releasing new GPUs

>10% higher flops
no one knows how much better a 7nm card will perform

Why usb type-c on RTX ?

nvidia have like 80-90% market share of GPUs. AMD and Intel are going to be forced to add DXR support but they prob been aware of this for over a year but I think it would have delayed their stuff.

I don't think AMD will release new GPU until mid 2019 and I think intels release will be pushed back to 2020 some time. they will all have DXR (raytracing support) and I expect they will offer it on lower end cards unlike nvidia which 2050./2060 wont have it and just be normal GTX

Vr meme

ah, the 5870, now THAT was a card

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>brilliant woman

Vega 7nm gaming is coming out in december. It will crush Nvidia in both price and performance. Screencap this.

Flops are based on theoretical optimal throughput, not real world performance, which as AMD has proven time and time again matters little for gaming. Game engines will probably find ways other than MEMETRACING to take advantage of the additional capability of Turing as well.
The cost of going 7nm + HBM2 is what will keep consumers from the new AMD gpu's.
Even if it could offer better performance, a giant 7nm die with tall stacks of HBM2 and packaging would be more expensive.

That would mean that margins on consumer gpu's for 7nm are better than second generation EPYC, which is not reasonable.
Nvidia also clearly had the option to use 7nm for their gpu, and chose to go with a giant 12nm die instead. We should assume it was less expensive for the performance or else they wouldn't have pumped out a 700mm2 die for consumers.
I can't predict the future but what you're hoping for wouldn't make sense with everything we know right now.

I like how even in your fantasies the hoped for result is Nvidia lowering their prices so you can buy their card instead.

So they're releasing a 2180, 2170 and 2180Ti with more VRAM?

It's very suspicious when rumor mills went from 16GB memory to 12GB to 11GB and then 8GB

Then you're going to be in for a nice surprise ;)

we didn't buy their cards, because they are worse cards.

AMD needs to up their game or we are all fucked.

Is there something more at play here though? What is the actual reason AMD can't keep up? What are they doing wrong? is it a legal patent type thing? Snowball effect of nvidia's continued pummeling of AMD?

I don't know but I'm buttmad that these cards are the price they are. We're in a shitty situation here, and I don't think there is a simple answer like "AMD just sucks" or "cuz you guys bought nvidia".

What annoys me about AMD being shit is there are so many freesynch monitors, but they are all paired to shit GPUs.

Also linux gaming is screwed because shitty nvidia drivers. AMD cares about linux, but their cards still suck.

The only way for amd to release some half decent gpus is do like they did with ryzen. Release shit but cheap gpus for the next few years to stay alive while focusing on completely new architecture.

yes but will it have ai denoising cores or raytracing capability?

i dont understand you goys, what's wrong with the current gpus available in the market? they play goyms, yes? why do you constantly whine for a new one?

feels pretty good having waited for so long that I don't even care about navi or gpus any longer

while the meme [made up by anons] is good the pic is still not and is getting annoying af

Only buying Nvidia means we are fucked.

>we didn't buy their cards, because they are worse cards.
There are not worse in price/Performance. But somehow perople only want the best of the best.

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>other
what "others"?

intel's about to be btfo now that no hyperthreading

>mfw i just got an i7-7700hq laptop
fuck

>gaming
no, only a machine learning version is announced for 2018. The 7nm process is still too costly for consumer goods. And depending on when 7nm volume production becomes available, if the first 7nm Vega has good results, and how Navi is doing, we may not see them at all (I know that consumer cards were mentioned, but plans may change).

navi will come out this year we already know this
but it wont be for us anyway
the consumer cards will come late 2019 or even 2020

I was talking to a guy i know who works in chip design, he felt that Nvidia had such a substantial lead in graphics that AMD can effectively never catch up, and that Navi will be the technological equivalent of a wet fart.

Then again, he is a moneybags, Already pre-ordered a couple of 2080Ti cards.

AMD is not even trying to compete for the High End segment, Naavi is already focused for next-gen consoles, AMD rather maintain that market they control, all consoles are polaris

lol nvidia is completely entrenched in there now.

>All
Nvidia provides the chip for the biggest selling console with the best first party lineup at the moment

Did he forsee Zen competing effectively against Intel after their Hot Chips presentation in 2016? Because that was largely why I went all in on AMD and now have a profit of 1000% my initial investment of 2000 dollars.

I wouldn't count AMD out though since they can pull off Zen, but the main problem is that we know nothing about how they will compete with the 7 nm Vega and Navi for 2019. They would need a Hot Chips type presentation for me to count them in, but I won't count them out either.

Nvidia control 80% of the GPU market, by next year it could very well be 90%

There is literally no stopping them.

Not really, he dismissed Zen as "no more than a 10 or 20% improvement over Bulldozer", but it is hard to see AMD catching up in the graphics market at the moment, it seems driven by more fanboyism than CPUs, plus Nvidia shoving all their proprietary stuff in everyones faces.

You know we're just getting a rehashed GCN chip, right? A new iteration at best.

Zen largely succeeded because it actually was better than what they projected during Hot Chips 2016, and Meltdown + Spectre + variants that no one forsaw which is still plaguing chips to this day and making Intel lose more performance than AMD.

But for AMD, I really think that if they can catch up, they will need to radically redesign GCN or add features to help it out with how geometry bottlenecked it is to have a chance. Navi might be able to compete if Turing is just a slightly better Pascal (less than 30% better) and AMD make the remaining half of the tech they promised in the Vega whitepaper actually work and not disabled/developer implemented. But yeah, to beat Nvidia, they have to overhaul everything to stand a chance and not just be "poorfag video cards provider".

Pulling their head out of gaymurr asses and putting effort into serious shit like AI and machine learning would help too.

>What is the actual reason AMD can't keep up? What are they doing wrong?
AMD is a CPU company that bought a GPU company. Their main thing is CPUs, not GPUs. AMD barely knows what they're doing on that front and fucking Raja Koduri didn't help a fucking thing.
Hopefully Rayfield and Wang will fix shit up with either Navi or whatever is after Navi.

Gamers deserve this, I hope the 3070 starts at 800 dollars. Get fucked and get a fucking job you lazy meets.

RISE UP

Unless AMD brings out a card as good as the 2080ti (with ray tracing et al) for half the price of the 2080ti, they won't be competing in the GPU market for another decade.

intel actually foresaw meltodwn/spectre, they just long ago decided to wait for the sky to fall on their head.

They have completely pulled out of gaming completely and are only concentrating on AI and machine learning right now which is the problem why Nvidia has the marketshare they do. Despite that focus, they still have a lot to do. They need to start supporting the latest version of OpenCL on their ROCM Linux OpenCL implementation and make it support their upstream kernel driver too. Their GPUOpen Project also needs more manpower and more visibility among developers too.

If you ask me what they need, it's really one thing. More manpower for their GPU efforts. But they are short on cash to hire right now so it will take them longer to ramp up on that front. And it also doesn't address the gaming visibility issue. I would not want to be David Wang, Raja's successor, right now...

If you mean from when they disclosed the flaws in January, yeah. But if you are talking about if they forsaw it when researchers found this 6 months earlier last July and privately disclosed this. I don't think so, and I meant it in that way, as in they had no prior knowledge that their shortcuts were security issue bombs waiting to blow up.

>the actuall state of Jow Forums
while basing flops as gauge for performance is retard between amd and nvidia, i bet my ass it is withing 10% of comparing Nvidia previous gen and Nvidia current gen
>Game engines will probably find ways other than MEMETRACING to take advantage of the additional capability of Turing as well.
Oh please, no one is going to bother doing this for the 3 Turing GPUs that will ever exist. even if they would, this would only show in future games and not at launch benchmarks. Those are the only one that counts. The first fucking Impression.
>a giant 7nm die
is years away from being produced
node shrink means firsthand better chip performance and more transistors on less silicon
>tall stacks of HBM2 and packaging would be more expensive
HMB2 has been in production for over a year
you know, price goes down with yields increasing?

>Let's say Vega 7nm came out, and tweaked like Ryzen+ 12nm, it could even get a good foothold in the $500 market. But i doubt they're there...

I think that is a possibility, would reduce power draw and up the clock potential. But that would at max make Vega reach 1080ti performance levels - which would be good if it was priced at like 300$

Are AMD even capable of making something like the 1080 or the 1070ti at a budget price? Because that would be perfect for me

With a shrink to 7nm and HMB2 or GDDR6 ramping up in production to lower prices perhaps.

Yeah it's snowball. Once you lose considerable market share you lose funds for R&D and lose more market share and so on and so on.

Sadly some dipshits actually think this way...

>and I don't think there is a simple answer like "AMD just sucks" or "cuz you guys bought nvidia".
No, it's really that simple. Cus you guys bought nvidia.
>we didn't buy their cards, because they are worse cards.
hd 5000, 6000, 7000, 8000 (oem) and r9 200 series were objectively bettter than novideo. hd 4000 too but it was pretty much ATI product.

I still remember people everywhere recommending the 660ti

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And they weren't able to compete with Intel until all of the sudden they were.
Maybe Lisa Su is a genius and is going to scrap Vega and bring out a new architecture tomorrow that doesn't suck. Or maybe they fix Vega and give it a 50% performance boost somehow.
IF AMD is ever going to compete with Nvidia, they are probably going to slack on their fight with Intel and suddenly start crushing Nvidia in performance and efficiency. Will that be soon? Will that be 2025? Maybe their next architecture is their secret sauce.

When PS5? I'm done with this chicanery.

probably 2019 or 2020, since it's navi based

Arrggh I can't even escape the wait for AMD meme.

No, they're in it for a different game right now. They're trying to move normies from dedicated GPUs to their Ryzens with integrated vega. Most of them just want to play meme games like overwatch on 1080p@60fps, and occasionally some AAA game where they are fine with it running like on a console at 30 with decreased settings. This is the demographic that gives nvidia most of their profit, they buy all the 1050s and 1060s.

Now amd cut into those profits heavily, so guess what, the high end GPUs that are still selling became much more expensive to recoup lost profits. This is simply nvidia increasing prices where they are a monopoly, high end gaming GPUs. Meanwhile amd will keep increasing performance of integrated vega, until most people won't even buy dedicated GPUs anymore. That day is coming sooner than most people expect.

you can if you buy a nintendo switch
those are nvidia based

Already done. There's no games.

That's true. Intel enjoyed being ahead so much they literally did nothing but overcharge for dogshit. Nvidia on the other hand has been steamrolling even without any competition.

>Navi might be able to compete if Turing is just a slightly better Pascal (less than 30% better)
I seriously doubt the performance boost is going to be that small based on what they said, Turing SMs seem to have quite a few improvements.
>double L1 bandwidth
>2.7x L1 capacity
>double L2 capacity
>claimed 50% perf increase per core for shaders due to being able to perform int address calculation at the same time as FP ops
>faster VRAM
>more cores straight-up
>clocks seem to be similar-ish, only slightly lower (we need to see how the changes to boost work in practice)
This should translate into a solid improvement and I would be very surprised if it's under 30%. If you want to count shit like DLSS which essentially seems to be a neural net upscaler, as in the game probably renders at a lower resolution and then upscales using that, then performance gain is most definitely going to be far above 30%. I expect DLSS to come with an image quality degradation compared to native rendering though, so I don't think it should count.

>somebody call 911
>shawty burning fire on the dance floor
>muh woodscrews

3D FX, Matrox, emulated video cards, shit like that.

DLSS is just SSAA but faster, but looks slightly worse
it's not supposed to upscale to the monitor's resolution, but *from* the monitors resolution

True enough, that's kind of the problem. Intel basically did shit-all for consumers. IPC barely budged from Sandy up to this day and they sold quad cores as their top of the line 'consumer' offering up until their 7th gen. They only got moving after Ryzen came out, but GeForce has actually been progressing constantly, it's not such an easy target as Intel made themselves into.

nvidia acknowledges the fact that AMD has the capacity of coming back eventually, not that they're straight up dead forever, like intel thought