X is absolute, unadulterated, pure fucking garbage, and I wholeheartedly welcome the advent of Wayland...

X is absolute, unadulterated, pure fucking garbage, and I wholeheartedly welcome the advent of Wayland, or literally any other display server/protocol that comes along and takes X to the fucking gallows once and for all.

The model as a whole is extremely outdated, visibly inefficient, insecure, and it such a fucking mess of spaghetti code and extensions and life support that only a few people on the planet still understand how to actually maintain it. Their opinion on X? "Kill it with fire, please."

For a group of people that love to lambaste Windows users for having "babyduck syndrome", I've never seen more babyducks when it comes to the retards peddling the "x-xorg just werks" shit and spreading dumbfuck FUD about Wayland. (Of course, in all fairness, it doesn't help when all the distros out there wanted to be the first kids on the block to use Wayland and started pushing it out before it was 100% ready, leading to the average retarded joe to swear off of it.)

Similarly, for a group of people that jerk themselves off over software minimalism, there sure are a lot of people that love to suck the bloated dick of X. The same people who cry "Systemd does way too much for an init system!" seem to have no problem with all of the shit a display server shouldn't be doing, and they're too fucking retarded to understand that the Wayland protocol will eventually/has already gotten standardized extensions/addons for the sorts of shit they're bitching about (for instance, screensharing is now implemented under Pipewire, which on a side note, will kill another cancer, PA, eventually)

Simply put, and in simple user terms--X is responsible for a lot of the jankiness of the Linux desktop (as you'd expect of a display server that's been kept on life support for 30 years), and when Wayland is eventually adopted, it'll go a LONG way towards bringing Linux to the fucking 21st century.

youtube.com/watch?v=Zsz7Shbnb9c

Good video on the subject.

Attached: x11btfo.png (670x435, 168K)

Other urls found in this thread:

bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1423598
github.com/xhorak/firefox-devedition-flatpak/issues/8
github.com/albertlauncher/albert/issues/309#issuecomment-311056647
specifications.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html#dbus
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Okay but now that Weston is not the standard Wayland window compositor, will the devs have to worry about compatibility with difference wayland window compositor compatibility?
So instead of worrying about Xorg, won't they have to worry about Weston, KWin, Sway, mutter etc compatibility? I fucking hope there's a standard in this.

The problem is that it breaks 30 years of backwards compatibility. And nobody cares enough to reimplement all the software they use every day

I thought the entire point is that they all follow an inherent set of standards. It's not like they all use different calls for rendering Windows, right?

Xwayland though.
The most important windows (web browser, terminals, text editors, etc.) can be rendered with the better option, while other things that still don't have Wayland compatibility can still be rendered with an X server.

Fuck backwards compatibility. We're not gonna keep around an incredibly bloated, unstable, insecure, and poorly-coded display protocol because some literal boomer out there doesn't like change.

The idea of slimming down and improving X11 is good, but the Wayland project moves too slow, doesn't have an architecture that can act as replacement for everything important and make it simple, and just about nothing that would actually show a significant benefit -performance, sysadmin effort or otherwise- to users either.

wayland will inevitably be bloated in the same way X is, but with slightly more organized extensions

Wayland compositors are already more usable than x11 was at the same life time. I don't know what you guys expect, you really think a project that only got 5-7 years of development can already trump a project that has 30 years and millions of dollars of development?
I say that wayland is already further than x11. It has many features that are impossible in x11 and the various desktop environments are also more than usable for the average joe.
Also, wlroots and xdg-shell are the standard for cross desktop development. All the i3 fags can use them and implement their own special snowflake wm and they do already if you didn't notice.

We are also not supposed to reimplement fucking VNC / NX / RDP ... atop of every fucking compositor to have these remote desktop protocols.

And apart from that, the compositors and Wayland itself are generally so shit that most DE/WM didn't bother to support them in years now and that those that do seem to drown in little and big bugs. After ten fucking years now.

Now that some wayland compositors and XWayland have eglstreams support, uptake will accelerate.

So GNU is literally the same as Windows then.

this, until there's good screen and mouse sharing it's just a toy

>Weston is not the standard Wayland window compositor
it is but i doubt many people use it beyond testing

>you really think a project that only got 5-7 years of development can already trump a project that has 30 years and millions of dollars of development
Yes, that's actually how it was with everything else. Git did, systemd did, pulseaudio did, bittorrent did, so much more did.

Even if Linux itself didn't take over the whole market with 5-7 years, it had quite a lot of adaption after that much time and you saw a lot that was better than in the alternatives already, with people actually using it in production.

>Sway devs whore for attention again

I'm actually curious: How did X shape popular GUI environments?
They are all unholy abominations, but is some of that due to X or is it basically all the incompetence of their devs?

MOZ_GTK_TITLEBAR_DECORATION=client /usr/bin/firejail firefox/firefox

>It has many features that are impossible in x11
Care to elaborate?
I know nothing, beyond a passing fancy of the idea that I'd love to make my own GUI at some point.

>Yes, that's actually how it was with everything else
Fun fact, it's more than 10 and it's still unusable garbage not on par with basic X11 (even without vnc and all that),

to be fair, firefox making zero attempts to work with your desktop toolkit isn't new

Yes. And then atop of that there are endless numbers of bugs like:
bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1423598
github.com/xhorak/firefox-devedition-flatpak/issues/8

And I recall applications cannot save/restore position in general because Wayland was retarded enough to not let applications know their absolute position on the display.

Wayland is ironically like the Linux of display servers - better but not compatible with as many applications.

But Linux is pretty much the most compatible OS there is.

Yes, there is some Adobe crap - using artfag that is bothered by his subscription-ware not working, but that's not the overall picture.

>Wayland is ironically like the Linux of display servers
Except linux is modular and customizeable while wayland is windows-level piece of shit with everything hard coded into "compositor"

>And I recall applications cannot save/restore position in general because Wayland was retarded enough to not let applications know their absolute position on the display.
Were those fuckers drunk?
And why did no one tell them to do something about this shit?

>Were those fuckers drunk?
Who cares about usefulness of software when we can have
>muh security
?

why not use android's display server, at least you know it wasn't developed by dumbshits

what are you talking about?

>android anything
>wasn't devved by literal dipshits

I don't know, but the overall picture I get is that the slow 3rd party adoption is because they did not fucking make their API/ABI easy enough to use.

Of course people asked, but most such requests were either denied because not muh design, or side-graded into research projects where they want to at some point figure out how to do these unimportant things properly, maybe.

Pros of Wayland:
>might be a minor security improvement in some situations
>new and pretty

Cons:
>no software
>each window manager is now required to do everything X did
>window manager crashes will kill the entire desktop session (hilarous because GNOME and KDE are the only environments that crash, and are the only projects pushing Wayland)

>BOOHOOO NO EQUIVALENT OF XDOTOOL POSSIBLE BECAUSE seCUrItY rIsK

Attached: y8Ea8jB.gif (480x358, 1.14M)

That's actually another very, VERY shitty idea, yes You never should make UI-based automation hard.

Having a toggle to turn it on/off is okay, but disabling it? Lel, fucking idiots.

You could include automation IN the widget toolkit. TOO BAD WAYLAND IS DEPENDENT ON EXTERNAL TOOLKITS AND ALL OF THEM FUCKING SUCK!

Yes, that's a very retarded idea because if you make automation hard, QA and the average home user will generally already generally not get to use it, and it'll be at most used by companies trying to automate something very repetitive on proprietary software or such.

Also, it's important that it works between software anyhow.

>I watched a youtube video.

>I am now enligtened.

>No need to see Napels.

Attached: enlight.jpg (474x448, 44K)

Does this also affect hotkeys and shit?

Yes.
github.com/albertlauncher/albert/issues/309#issuecomment-311056647

>Their plans are to use deskop actions.
What are those? Are they in any way equivalent?

I believe this might be referring to the thing where applications register themselves and triggerable actions in DBUS.

specifications.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html#dbus

Yeah call me back when it works.

That's what the UNIX philosophy entails.

Android doesn't even have the concept of windows. All it does is display every application in the whole screen. Picture-in-picture and multiple apps open at the same time are dirty hacks with horrible performance.
That being said, Canonical already attempted this. Mir initially used some of the Wayland code and some of Android's code (for inputs and stuff.)

>we
So will you personally port software to Wayland from X? Or are you talking out your ass? This shit isn't as easy as it sounds.

Both are shit though. The only hope to salvage Linux on desktop is Chrome OS.

>Recreating X11 and half it's extensions in compositor with no possibility to substitute them
>UNIX way
That's what freedesktop-tards actually believe.

Even if I installed Wayland now there's still a shitload of things that will use X11 anyway. Maybe in 10 years we'll see a desktop environment without any X11 shit, but definitely not now.

X isn't a GNU project.

I guess it's similar to GNU shit in terms of both legacy and quality.

Does Wayland support X11 forwarding?

There are a few hiccups that will have to be solved by Gnome before I make the switch to Wayland (recovering from a crash with the session intact; some way of allowing global keyboatd shortcuts) but I certainly am looking forward to it.

I do hope global shortcuts is a problem that can be solved satisfactorily. No push-to-talk is an absolute deal-breaker.

A lot of applications would run through xwayland, that is true, yes. But it's not like you wouldn't see any of the benefits of running on Wayland.

>But it's not like you wouldn't see any of the benefits of running on Wayland.
Yeah, like shitty "modesetting" drivers instead of the xf86-video-intel.

(((We))); go back from whence you came, redditard.

Attached: Shazam_Earth.jpg (268x387, 73K)

>let's replace something that is complicated and what I am too stupid to understand with something basic and far less versatile that also doesn't really work and also has ridiculous principles

20-80 rule dictates artfags, musicfags, renderfags (and a lot of programmerfags) do more productive work than some linux server somewhere that could be swapped for windows.

>le reddit boogeyman
I don't even use the site, nigger

It's not just me that's "too stupid" as you put it, it's the people who created the thing.
Hmm... It's almost like we're not too stupid for it, and that it's just a poorly-desiged system overall

>I don't understand complex thing or even why it needed to be complex to do what it does
>but I'm smart because I made a completely different implementation that is lacking lots of features and has no standards (because I was too lazy to implement those)

Render farms and programming work including the CI servers, version control and so on are obviously also on Linux.

> some linux server somewhere that could be swapped for windows
Good luck with that.

Far easier to just migrate some Adobeshit drawing software than most of the backbone of the internet and internet-based communication and most of worldwide trade and so on.

So we literally keep around the old stuff because the new isn't good enough. What's this, Windows development?

>modesetting
>shitty
Huh?

Sway is Wayland based and stable like a rock. It is also a lot simpler though.

How long have you known how to meme arrow?

yeah, but, wayland is slow as utter shit.
stop shilling for shitty software

No xcape = no wayland

I want to like it, but all the hassle for a minor security plus and questionable performance claims (I dont even think I've ever seen a benchmark)? Not yet worth.

>So we literally keep around the old stuff because the new isn't good enough. What's this, Windows development?
Valuing backwards compatibility is probably the most sensible decision Microsoft ever made.