Now that the dust has settled, what went wrong?

Retards will think this is an argument against it.

But by all means, lets compare *one* credit card companies *electronic* portion to bitcoin instead of the entirety of the company, or even all of the worlds financial costs. The energy (environmental) impact of bitcoin is easily surpassed by US minting alone.

And this is why normies should never have invested in the first place - you don't understand the arguments for, or the arguments against. Oh well, I'll just ride the next hype bus when that rolls around.

You fell for a Ponzi scheme, idiot.

The state is a ponzi scheme.

People using it as get rich schemes instead of actually using it to buy stuff
This is why crypto will never sail, and you know the government will never allow/heavily regulate crypto transactions on local markets

I knew you were stupid, but not that much. I don't feel sorry for you, you deserve all the bad things that are going to happen to you.

Your life lmao

Are you shorting? If not, shut the fuck up. Put your money where your mouth is.

nocoinproject.org/

poo

>made by (((google employee)))

found the retarded ancap

We were being retarded, I thought I'd join in.

You obviously don't know how Ponzi schemes work - I mean, I could tell that from your previous post, but this just makes it even more painfully evident. One doesn't "short" a Ponzi scheme.

No, really, explain to me why one doesn't " "short" " a ponzi scheme like any other shit or scam company you'd see.

Nothing went wrong, Bitcoin is still ok for all kinds of illicit activities. It's just that normies overhyped every single shitcoin in the hopes of getting rich quick, which led to a huge crypto-bubble

Because, by definition, all the money always goes to the top of the pyramid, idiot. Heck, I bet you don't even know what "shorting" means!

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Still works to buy drugs and that's all that matters

It became shit when you could exchange it for actual money. That led to normies getting into it, GPU prices going through the roof and ransomware like WannaCry spreading.
Absolute shitfest and everyone defending it deserves the guillotine.

>half ass shit online currency gains attention online
>a lot of people buying it causing it to rise
>america calls china
>"autists are getting rich do something"
>"ching chong chink chang chang ching"
>"ban it"
>bitcoin goes on a freefall
>people panic selling make it fall even more

ok retard

are you retarded or do you not understand the concept of panic selling? or is it both?

Normies didn't know how Bitcoin behaved
Bitcoin drops it's worth every few months and then climbs back up but they all jumped ship when it sunk so they crashed it

Just look at MLM shit like Mary Kay and Herbalife, you dumbass. That kinda scam never goes under. You're a special kind of stupid for falling for that kind of shit.

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Besides the fact that it was championed by people who have a hatred of fiat currency yet is itself some kind of bizarre meta-fiat currency...

There's the very significant matter that, by design, the more buttcoins have been mined, the more evergy it takes to mine more. It's the only commodity or pseudo-commodity whose production costs go inexorably up instead of down. It's just plain absurd.

By November 1st last year, a single buttcoin transation cost nearly a week of energy consumption of the average American household -- 215 and 901 KWh, respectively. Right now, almost exactly 10 months later, each transaction consumes a preposterous 929 KWh: digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

"Insane" doesn't begin to describe it. This fucking thing is an actual environmental hazard.

>normies don't know how it behaved so it behaved how they thought it would

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nothing
this happened before and it will happen again
t. bought at $29 before it crashed to $2

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ok retard

It was a get rich quick scheme that got a few early investors and a few smart traders and a couple hardware companies very rich, and left everyone else by the way side.

Chinks fucked up that one with cheap Asic miners and having no high electricity rates. If the difficulty was still low like it was in 2010/2011 then the power demand would be much lower.

>Bitcoin is way stronger now than before.
No. The peak already passed.
>Fees have gone down greatly
Because it lost 60% of its value after peaking.
>still rival commercial alternatives for transferring funds electronically.
Citation required. Every day more and more places are refusing to take Bitcoin. Not even Steam or the NRA take Bitcoin anymore.
>the longer it *doesn't die*, the more viable it gets.
Why? This doesn't even make sense.

>This fucking thing is an actual environmental hazard

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Nobody cares about arguments faggot. Show proof or you're just coping. The other guys has proof, where's yours?

Bitcoin is the 21th century "get rich quick" scam.

nothing with the platform itsself. there was a bubble though. media hyped it up and everyone got on the gravy train and as all bubbles do, it popped.

>it doesn’t immediately appreciate after I bought
>must be a scam

>im cool with the planet containing zero humans in 50 years
Let me guess, you believe in a purely white society too?

Techies believing in the simple children's story of gold-based currency, film at 11

Someone needs to go back to the onions based dystopia they left.

>Nobody cares about arguments

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did someone hack the bitcorn?

The people who made the most profit off it were committing widespread legalized securities fraud, specifically pump and dumps. This both eroded trust/market confidence in crypto and forced legislation which made it no longer an attractive technology to normal people.

>If the difficulty was still low like it was in 2010/2011
Well that's buttcoin's big design flaw, with miners competing with each other for a block, apparently it's called "proof of work". It will never be that cheap again. It will never get cheapER at all.

A glaringly better design would be to pre-assign a block to each miner. Maybe it it's not mined after a while, re-assign it for someone else to complete. There you go, it's not perfect but reduces electricity usage to a fraction. It's such a minor change that would make a massive difference, that I don't know what the hell was going through the designers' heads.

I can only hope some egghead will come up with a cryptocurrency that doesn't depend on electricity at all.

The damn thing is nothing but virtual trade-value chips, and yet it uses up as much power as fucking Austria. You fucking bet it's an environmental hazard.

>Converting $100 worth of electricity into $20 worth of fiat currency
Am I the only one who doesn't get this shit?

>the other guy
proofs!

>a cryptocurrency that doesn't depend on electricity at all

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Lack of any security. My brother lost all his from a phishing site, I lost mine twice because I lost the info. Fuck Bitcoin I like money

You guys are retarded. If you misplace your wallet you don't blame the money.

Got too popular too fast, which caused it to turn into a speculative asset instead of a currency.

So are all the other people who have loose coins then and that's the #1 problem I've heard. That and the stigma of them being used for dark web stuff. You're retarded

you rarted

You pist user

no, because I never lost money like that and then whinged about something I don't understand

if *you* can get them back without a hard fork, anyone else can.

Guess I'm just old fashioned, I think crypto has a place honestly. Just have had bad experience, I know it's been a gold rush for a lot of people and that's good.

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look, if you want a centralized or federated or whatever electronic currency you can have that through smart contract tokens. just not as a crypto in itself.

There isn't enough blocks to assign miners to them. However it would be possible to assign blocks to mining pools.

>"Experts say Bitcoin will hit $10k in January 2017"
>"just a dip"

It's used as a get rich quick speculation vehicle.

as usual. I personally think bitcoin died the day it was treated like a market share and as an investment. Maybe it was on purpose?

It's true intentions were only met by drug dealers/buyers and a handful of enthusiasts who truly believed in it's uses as an actual currency. Now those type of not so honest transactions aren't even making a dent in the current climate. it's pretty sad desu, it could have really grown into something more substantial if it wasn't treated as a gold rush

Ask what bitcoins main purpose is, then ask
>Did it serve that purpose well
>Is said purpose meant to be widespread

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You would be having that same reaction if you heard about cryptocurrencis before 2009.

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Currency that was fine for illicit shit got noticed by normies around the time that illicit cash transactions got big.

They flooded the market, increasing value and difficulty of acquisitions.

Illicit owners laughed their tits off as they flooded the market to normies, making millions more than their actual illegal shit.

Normies kept pumping money into it while only short sellers made any money.

Production became next to impossible and forced other crypto to arise since then illicits could keep trading something to keep below board.

Normies spread to new crypto in hopes of another bubble they could short out of.

Never happened and now crypto is fucked by normies, just like how short sellers ruined shares in traditional finance.

Regulation was coming anyways, that just forced it. The debt-based economy, executive Order 6102, the Bretton Woods system and the Nixon shock and lastly know your customer legislation has stripped all citizens of control over their own money. The state has 100% ownership of all money and can and will use it as a tool for censorship and control. And the state pay for it's expenses by devaluing the money of it's citizens through intentional inflation. What Bitcoin does is circumvent all of this, letting people once again have ownership of their own money without the state being able to steal them, or freeze them, or decide when or what to spend them on. Of course the state will try to fight that.

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Retards like you don't realize the comparably meager amount of bitcoij transactions that happened last year used as much energy as a first world country.

>Are you shorting?
yes. done 3 10x short plays at Bitmex today. Currently without position browsing Jow Forums and watching charts looking for a re-entry.

>ponzi scheme
BTC ain't a "ponzi" or a pyramid scheme or anything else. It's a currency/commodity. Of course you can play long and buy dips and avoid selling rallies or play short and sell rallies and avoid buying dips - just like you can in any other market.

Bump

That is what happens in an unregulated free market. Nobody can control the direction Bitcoin is taking, all we know is that it's an anti fragile system being traded globally with little to no oversight. At the moment centralization is happening due to the trading platforms being centralized, but decentralized trading is coming and once that's out in the open Bitcoin will never go down unless the internet it self goes down. The time for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is yet to come, the price spike we've seen was just free market dynamics. The underlying technology is still not mature enough, but it will get there. There will come a time when cryptocurrencies underpin the majority of the information transfer happening on the internet, and it will shape the internet much in the same way that information brokers and the ad-revenue system shaped the internet. Everything is information and information and information transfer has a value. Even privacy has a value.

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>What went wrong?
HEY HEY HEYYYYY

>but decentralized trading is coming
No. It's not coming and it never will. It's a pipe-dream and you know it.

Decentralized trading of crypto/crypto? Of course. That's easy. Do a bank transfer decentralized or anonymous? Nope, that's just not how the banking system works.

>The underlying technology is still not mature enough
I disagree with this too. Bitcoin's been around since 2009. It's not "early adoption" or "still maturing" or anything of that nature. It's 9 year old technology. And it works just fine right now. It's more than mature enough, it's proven itself.

That's a myth that was parroted by the media machine, recent studies debunks it. And it's a lot more complex than retards like you seems to think. The majority of BTC runs on hydro and geothermal energy because it's the cheapest. And in many places, especially in Asia, the power companies makes deals with the big players in mining where they essentially sell the surplus power that would otherwise be wasted for much cheaper to the miners. They have that extra capacity because then when new renewable energy plants are built, it can take as much as a decade from the plans are ready to the plant is operational, and they have to build the plants so that they are dimensioned for future increases in loads. So when plants are new, they usually have the capacity to generate more power than is needed, and often it's not possible to pipe this directly into the grid. So by selling this extra capacity to miners, they make new revenue that would otherwise not exist, which in turn shortens the return of investment time for the plant. This in turn means that new renewable energy plants can be built with shorter ROIs, effectively stimulation the construction of more renewable power faster than would otherwise be economical. So it's possible to argue that Cryptocurrencies is in fact supercharging the green shift by speeding up the construction of new renewable energy plants by make it cheaper to reach RIO. Not that you would know any of this anyways. The production of ASICs also put billion dollar orders of 7nm ASIC and NAND chips to the fabs, stimulating the chip economy and increasing the R&D on ASIC tech and semiconductor fabrication.

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They finally reached the moon!!!

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>Do a bank transfer decentralized or anonymous? Nope, that's just not how the banking system works.

What we'll see is the gradual establishment of a parallel banking system built on top of the worlds cryptocurrencies. Where all the services offered by the old system will be replicated by the new, including lending, banking, etc. You'll have full custodial offerings similar to the old system today as well as completely decentralized systems. And you'll also see a lot of alternatives that fall in between those extremes. But more importantly there will be an explosion of new innovations, because the financial sector have effectively been kept in the dark ages for hundreds of years with all attempts of paradigm shifts being suppressed. Lending for instance can be decentralized and distributed, so if you choose to make some crypto available for lending in a future system like that, the system will split that into thousands of small loans which evens out the risk/reward. Fiat/Crypto bridges is an issue, but it's not enough to stop this development. Innovation will eventually catch up with FIAT, who knows if it will cause a paradigm shift or not.

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>BTC is a currency
If you can't use it to buy coffee, then it's not currency.

I can't buy coffee in the US with Yuan. Is Yuan a currency?

It serves no purpose since it's not anonymous at all. Look at the public asset seizure document from alpha bay. Monero is what btc was supposed to be

This. It's just not scalable.

Can you buy coffee in whatever country uses Yuan with Yuan?

block size increase and segwit when people actually use it for transactions
>tl;dr bitcoin is early software and will be upgraded

cringe and bluepilled

>Right now, almost exactly 10 months later, each transaction consumes a preposterous 929 KWh

If I were to send you one bitcoin right now, the transaction fee wouldn't even be close to the cost of 929 KWh of energy. So if I don't pay the miner enough to cover for the supposedly 929 KWh of electricity he paid for my transaction, who did?

This simple logic illustrates why that article is complete rubbish. It's hard to believe anyone can actually be stupid enough to believe it, but apparently you are. Congratulations, I guess.

tradeblock.com/bitcoin

you girls seem to be lagging. It's already been a while since segwit was implemented. And as you can plainly see if you look: most blocks aren't full. Turns out a lot of transactions were done by bots doing arbitrage between exchanges and that kind of thing. Most of that is now done by segwit which leaves plenty of room for non-segwit transactions.

This obviously doesn't mean BTC can handle massive rapid growth, just that for now there's no issue with capacity.

And that "maximum" of 3-4 transactions per second.. still applies to non-segwit blocks. Which means it still applies, just not as much as it used to. Some services could do 500 transactions per second on some segwit-based side-chain with no impact on the mainnet.

>So if I don't pay the miner enough to cover for the supposedly 929 KWh of electricity he paid for my transaction, who did?
Talking about the electricity cost of a single transaction is a strange thing to do in the first place so your question doesn't make that much sense.

A miner runs ASICs looking for a block because.. a) the miner really wants that 0.1 BTC in fees for the transactions included in this block OR b) the miner would like the 12.5 BTC block reward (which adds up to 12.6 BTC w/fees)?

And he really wants those BTC because they are worth a lot of money, or else it would just be a waste of power.

>no one is transacting
>the code accounts for this and saves on bloat
>this means bitcoin will never be able to have massive amounts of transactions
???

It's most definitely a ponzi pyramid, and the greatest evidence is the fact that only the very earliest "investors" became millionaires.

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In other words, the electricity consumption of Bitcoin will always be "the maximum amount of electricity that can be bought anywhere in the world for the USD value of the current block reward". In other words, if the current block reward is 12.5 BTC, the value of BTC is USD 7K, the block generation time is 10 minutes and the cheapest electricity available anywhere on the planet is say USD USD 0.07 per kWh (based on some chart I found on google), then the current electricity consumption is:

(12.5*7000) / 0.07 = 1250000 kWh / ten minutes or 1250000*6*24*365 = 65700000000 kWh/year == 65.7 tWh/year or the same as Chile.

So in other words, if the price of bitcoin goes up, so does the energy consumption and vice versa. Every halving of the block reward would also reduce the electricity consumption in half, unless the price increased to compensate.

A neat thing about this is that all the numbers except for the price and the price of electricity is fixed. And because the price of Bitcoin can be somewhat accurately measured using the average price on the biggest exchanges, it is possible to calculate what the cheapest price per kWh of electricity is in the entire world. This assumes that miners will somewhat quickly move to the cheapest source of electricity to maximize their profit.

>and yet it uses up as much power as fucking Austria

Current estimates are at about 1/4 of Australia at the high end.

Is it worth it to buy bitcoin now, with hopes what it will growth exponentially in value in the upcoming years?

I will, of course, use only money that I can afford to lose.

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This also means that any nation state that wanted to compromise the Bitcoin network with a 51% attack would need that much electricity to do it.

Using the numbers above, that comes out to USD 12600000 / hour just for electricity and then you need to also pay for the hardware. This assumes that the hardware used to do the attack will have a similar kWh/hash as current operational mining hardware in the network.

The downside is the environment, but the positive side is that it's virtually impossible to take it down using brute force, even if you're a country.

The most optimistic growth that's within reason in our life time is about 10-20x of today's price. The theoretical maximum is something like 50-100x the current price, but that assumes that Bitcoin becomes bigger than all the worlds money and gold combined, among other things. It does however not factor in things such as the fact that market cap don't have to represent real value, just like stocks are valued 50x or more their revenue stream (P/E ratio).

My serious advice is to watch a couple videos by Andreas M. Antonopoulos and see if you become convinced on the merits of Bitcoin. If you get it, you get it. If if you don't, buying it just in the hopes of making mad money is a very risky gamble.

youtube.com/user/aantonop

>envisioned as p2p currency that people will use without middle man
>turns out to be shady speculative medium over with scam exchanges that isn't good for anything useful