We need optical discs now more than ever. It can free people from the cloud

actually want to plan a way to make a nice "drive bay" for 2.5inch bays on the front of a small custom computer im building. not sure if ishould rip apart one of thous little HDD docks and use them or some hotswap bay and make it work like a cassette slot. what would be best option for that you think? I want it looking nice and retro but also easy to just slot drive 2.5inch in and out with out too much fiddling.

Solid state media is better

I'm curious, do they even perform RAID on tape backups or is the ECC that fucking good on them?

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/thread

If you can afford it. You'd probably have to take out a 2nd mortgage to do a 10TB RAID 10 SSD kind of thing.

they are for deep storage only. like banks store records incase their main system looses them etc. they might only backup to tape like once every 6months or some thing because it takes so long.

How big would discs be if r&d on them never stopped?

there is only like 5-6TB worth of good stuff on the internet and as you grow older that drops down to like 2-3TB.

Big, even Blu-rays which were released to consumers in 2006 have a model that holds 100gb

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Considering 8K monitors will soon be the norm I highly doubt that. Soon even the yify rips will be like 100GB lmao.

>he doesn't download 32GB BDRiP

Tapes are *really* fucking expensive tho.

That old geezer on youtube made a video about hot swapping. Look up explainingcomputers.

>8K monitors will soon be the norm

>we need optical
No. No we don't. Optical is always going to be fucking slow and painful compared to anything else. The storage media is the goddamn surface area of the medium being used, and merely setting it on something can potentially damage the data. All that surface area is wide open to UV exposure which can further degrade it. Its a flat out terrible concept.

What we need is solid state storage with nanotubes. Infinite endurance, switches as fast as DRAM or faster, uses slightly less power than comparable DRAM, better timings than conventional DRAM, has storage density of high end stacked NAND dies, cheap novel method of manufacturing.

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Cheaper than pressing BD-ROMs. Burned optical media has awful durability.

Phish. What is the retention of solid state? like 10 years MAX?

Tapes are NOT good for archival purposes.
They're good for routine backups ONLY.
Even in PERFECT storage conditions, magnetic media has a MTBF of 5 years.

Pressed optical media, however, has a MTBF of 150 years.

Even burned DVDs have a MTBF of 10 years.
Yes, tape holds more, but if you want to store important documents, you need ARCHIVAL, not just temporary backups.

Also, no archival backup service uses tape anymore. They use redundant magnetic drives in multiple off-site locations.

If that were true devices relying on early flash would be dead by now

Not in proper storage conditions

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

6TB.

Many are dead tho

>Even in PERFECT storage conditions, magnetic media has a MTBF of 5 years.
Source?

You can get good 4K ones for like $500 a pop and 8K ones are starting to inch close to $3K. It's only a matter of 1 maybe 2 more years before companies start undercutting each other to get the shekels faster and first.

Hell I see 1080p monitors at second hand stores nowadays.

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NAS is not backup silly.

>8K monitors will soon be the norm
Monitors, probably, those'll likely be the only ones available in the future. But actual 8K content? Good luck with that.

With UPS and raid 10 it is. Anything more than that seems very redundant imho.

Like?

Genuine 4K content, free from upscale, free from being bit rate starvation, is still almost nonexistent.
Media content aside, we're barely getting GPUs now that can play games at high settings with 4K res.
8K isn't going anywhere for the next half decade. The media isn't going to be there, the processing power needed for it isn't going to emerge out of thin air, VR people want to pursue resolutions that high for "true" immersion, but VR gaming headsets are floundering compared to simple plastic cellphone holders used for "experience" content aka videos with motion gimmick.

There is no real driver for 8K, and 4K is barely viable now. The panel makers are just pissing their own money away. Consumers won't buy it.

I don't get normies gripes about discs taking up too much space. like a stack of 10 ps4 games don't even take up half a shoe boxes. you can even toss the cases and put them in CD wallets. are normies so fucking lazy that taking a disc from a case and sticking it in a machines is a big enough hassle to just throw out the concept of owning your software?

You get a few years if you don't energize em.

blog.okmeter.io/real-world-ssd-wearout-a3396a35c663

Ever worked in a place that used LTO-4 tape?
After 5 years, you may as well flip a coin to decide whether a tape is still good or not, even if they've only been written to once. If you over-write them, you need to replace the tape after 10 re-writes.

Unless you have a storage space with an air filter that can maintain a 70F/40% environment, you won't get 30 years from them. Those tapes WILL die.
Even a 5F jump in temp reduces their lifespan to 5 years, and without running a humidifier AND dehumidifier, a 10% jump in humidity can do even worse.

Oh, you also need to worry about dust getting into the door of the cart, so you need to clean every one before you put it in the reader, or have a clean-room filter.

Precisely.
Plus there'd be the need for insane advances to be made in networks to support the massive amount of

>The panel makers are just pissing their own money away. Consumers won't buy it.
Yup. But hey, if the manufacturers can support their R&D by selling 8K panels to the few schmucks out there, more power to them. 8K and other ultra-hyper-HD stuff must be the stupidest tech field to be an early adopter in...

>6TB
Probably more than that

You're just a pleb who'll never enjoy games in 8K@144Hz HDR using real time Ray Tracing

Remember when we said the same thing about 4K a decade ago? Now even consoles are trying to do 4K. Adoption of anything takes time but it's accelerating. We went from 240p to 480p to 720p to 1080p, skipped 1440p and went straight into 4K.

Also there's more genuine 4K (not upscaled) mastered movies than you think. It's not hundreds but it's getting there.

gadgetflux.net/list-of-4k-mastered-hollywood-movies/

I've seen 30+ year old floppy disks that still work.

To be fair at least for now such high res would mean you could comfortably read books on your monitor (see ppi in pic related) and do more multitasking or even run 4 VMs in their own 1080p frames which is pretty cool in and of itself imho. Not that I could afford it tho.

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People were pushing the 4k meme 4 years ago, its barely viable now. The PS4 Pro and Xboner still have major frame rate issues, and the PS4 Pro still does some fancy upscaling as it isn't a true 4K machine.
We're headed into Q4 2018 and 4K is just a niche with little real support. Its still going to be years and years until its a mainstream standard.

8K is a complete pipedram at this point. If we're looking that far into the future we might as well start speculating about holographic displays while we're at it.

>decade
You said "soon"

Floppy discs are NOT LTO-4 tape.
They're a flat disc that isn't stretched or manipulated around a spool as part of normal use.

Yeah I also said tech is accelerating faster. I highly doubt we won't have reasonably priced GPU's capable of pushing 8K (without AA) at ~60 FPS in 1 or 2 years.

8K is pointless.
There is a limit to what the human eye can see.
You'd need to be within 4 feet of a 60 inch TV to notice the difference between 4k and 8k.

It will have niche application in theaters and large public displays.

RAID-1: you simply make 2 copies of the tape if you're worried one might be damaged.

The only way 8K will become mainstream is if Apple uses it for a new iPhone model

The switch from 14/16/12nm down to 7nm doesn't bring enough performance uplift or enough power reduction to facilitate that much performance. TSMC will be sticking with 7nm for mainstream high performance parts into 2020, whatever boosters they cook up will maybe get them another 10% frequency uplift. Thats not going to double what we have now.
Unless someone has black magic architecture up their sleeves that isn't happening.
A 20% to 30% per uplift per generation is all we're going to see. Driving 8K will require significantly more performance than that.

They've just passed 1080p, years after Android phones had 1080p as standard. If phones drive 8K, it will be Android that pioneers it.

>6TB
like little baby
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_CD-ROM
>I don't get normies gripes about discs taking up too much space
Because they were brainwashed by video game companies.
Unlike the drones, i can understand how I may be a little biased since I live in a low cost of living area and have a few acres of land with a few building and my house is a little over 3000k sqft that I paid under $150k for. Even if I had a physical copy of every book, album, movie/show, game that I consumed, I wouldn't run out of space.
>are normies so fucking lazy that taking a disc from a case and sticking it in a machines is a big enough hassle to just throw out the concept of owning your software?
Yes, which is why Steam took off. Not even the fact that they are too lazy to use a disc, it's the fact they are too lazy to do anything, Lot of people bitched about HL2 being the first case of online client DRM for a single player game even if you bought it physically, yet none of them boycotted since they were too lazy to even pirate.
Paid digital distribution is the reddit and SJW of media distribution.
Doesn't matter if it is "DRM free", pirates still have it better than anyone that pays for digital distribution and yet the drones still vehemently defend Valve, CDPR, and game developers for these worse than rent seeking business tactics.

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>Nintendo could have brought the HVD to market but decided not to and now it's too late because physical media is dead.

>1 PB disc
>speck of dust
Welp, that's a few hundred GB unreadable.

WRONG. Even the mouth breather definition of visual acuity brings the human eye capable of seeing up to 876 PPI at 4 inches, or 300 PPI at 1 foot. 32" monitor is already under 300 PPI (see ) and a 64" 8K TV will be pic related

>"This means that if a healthy adult brings any display or printed paper to 4" (10cm) from his face, the maximum resolution he/she can see is 2190 ppi/dpi. However, the legally accepted norm of vision is 1 arcminute, which translates to 876 ppi/dpi at 4" (10cm)."

arthur.geneza.com/content/resolution-explained

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Imagine getting ransomwared/purposely hacked. Proper backup is NOT ATTACHED in any way to the system.

Won't 7nm give you double the die space of 14nm for moar coars? It seems reasonable to expect they cram in like 256 compute units on a die and clock it at .9GHz or somethinf

>300mbit/s

sounds slow.
HVD was 900mbit/s

What if you ran loonixnon the NAS and only gained access through password protected ssh. Can't get hacked if you don't have an actual desktop OS.

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If it's so good why haven't we heard more about it

>invented by Romanian scientist Dr. Eugen Pavel

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uhh, that's 4 INCHES.
it gets worse as you move away.

inchcalculator.com/tv-size-viewing-distance-calculator/#idx_minimum_viewing_distance_by_size_and_resolution
I have a 55" 4k OLED
It blurs past 4 feet.

red.com/learn/red-101/eyesight-4k-resolution-viewing
Additionally, human visual acuity is WORSE past the center 30% of their visual range, so you screen needs to fit inside that tiny visual window.

So, getting within 4 inches of the screen is not going to help.

Can't hack something if it ain't turned on. Will last longer to. For just a backup target you don't need it to be running 24/7 anyway.

Are you really going to view your 32" monitor from a distance of 1 foot?

>human visual acuity is WORSE past the center 30% of their visual range
Our eyes move around an image quickly to compensate for only having high resolution in the center. If a display lacks detail away from the center, you will see that. The only way you could get away with 'optimizing' away detail we won't see is by tracking your eyes and updating what parts of the image you render in higher detail extremely quickly.

Someone please fund HVD r&d so a finished disc can finally be released to consumers
Sucks that Blu-ray audio shot itself in the foot with DRM. Would have been cool to be able to buy a band's entire discography on one disc.
Simple, they didn't get funding for any research and development or if it did then funding was stopped.
youtube.com/watch?v=GMoxb79FxQk
youtube.com/watch?v=hXrJgXYq0Bk&t
youtube.com/watch?v=jFLYqVOuda4
When I was looking for videos on HVDs a while ago I came across a video of some pajeet selling "movies on holographic versatile discs" and an "HVD player" when in reality that was just the brand. Can't find the video, pretty sure he deleted the video after I left a comment telling him to stick to shitting on the street.

this is the future of removable media

youtube.com/watch?v=TYq77wh958A

basically HDD used as cassettes.

>Are you really going to view your 32" monitor from a distance of 1 foot?
Can you at least try to stop breathing through your mouth for a second?

This is mine:
To be clear from outset - everything runs from UPS.
Main Server - uses ReFS filesystem
That data is backed up in triplicate to 2 other server's that run Freenas/ZFS and a Raid 5 Nas (which stays shutdown except to add data to it)

So 8 drives have to all die at once or my house burns before my data is lost forever. Chances of both happening is rare. Don't gotta worry about "bitrot" or other shit messing up my data either.

>ooh, a (You)
>is he going to agree with or provide an argument against my point
>Can you at least try to stop breathing through your mouth for a second?
...oh.

So you sit on a computer desk 10 feet away to see a tiny 32" monitor? Do you use binoculars? Because that's the only way I could see myself doing that.

Watch yourself go blind. Sitting that close to such large display, loss of eyesight is real possibility

I know I'm going to sound like a massive faggot but I inch 1 foot close to my screen when I read anything on it. Having a 22" monitor sucks desu senpai.

This is why we need 8K monitors with 1600% UI upscale

More like 2-3 feet, which makes 300 ppi quite enough according to the user griping that 4K 32" is under 300 ppi and you see 300 ppi at 1 foot.

lmaowut? It only causes eye strain you mongrel. I was forced to do that when I was in data entry and they gave me a tedny tiny 1024*768p 18" monitor to do my work on. Yeah my eyes hurt like fuck at the end of the day but I'm still not blind.

4K at 32" is only 137 PPI tho. Is that really enough ppi for 2-3 feet away?

I agree with you OP.
I just wish that cd/dvd+-RW media was more reliable.

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>pressed>burned-R>burned-RAM>burned -+RW

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stari.co/tv-monitor-viewing-distance-calculator

yes.
2 feet is considered "optimal" for a 4k 32" screen.
Also, most monitors are 27" (1.7 feet), and most TVs are 50-55 inches (7-7.5 feet)

Oh, and the MINIMUM distance for a 32" 4K screen is 1.7Ft.
Any closer, and it is beyond a human's normal 140 degree field of view when looking at one side of the screen.

At 8K, a 32" screen is so dense you need to be within 14 inches of it to see it optimally, otherwise the pixels blur together. The 1.7 ft viewing FOV is the same though, so you're now forced to view it from further than optimal distance.

With a 55" screen, it's even worse.

Storage disks will become so cheap it won't even be a fair discussion. Not to mention ain't nobody got time to fucking burn TB's of data on optical media. That's my main complaint.

uh, my math says that assuming you had 50GB Blu-ray discs it'd take 240 of them to backup 12TB worth of data. Talk about a pain in the ass. Not to bad if you were doing a backup in chunks and you had the time to swap out discs. But in a critical situation, the time factor would be killer.

Tape is for every day temporary backups. Run it every night (because it fucking takes 8 hours), and use M-Discs to archive sensitive files you might need in 5+ years.

Like, for example, records of your yearly financial audits that you're required to hold onto for 7 years.

>Optical is always going to be fucking slow and painful compared to anything else.
>Muh 1gbps speeds.
That's why they're back-ups, copies. They aren't supposed to be the primary medium.

>The storage media is the goddamn surface area of the medium being used, and merely setting it on something can potentially damage the data.
>Why can't muh back-ups double as frisbees.
I have Windows 95 install CD's that are flawless because they've been inside a standard jewel case most of their lifespan.

>All that surface area is wide open to UV exposure which can further degrade it.
>I legit cringed.
Whhat!? They're also wide open to burn in a fire, but are you going to put then in a fire to burn? Chances are they'll be in a case where it would be much harder if not impossible to degrade from UV exposure

>In summary
Optical media is a great choice for long term storage back-ups. Sure there are problems as stated above, however they are less of a problem as you may think. As long as you buy from trusting and reliable brands, keep your discs in a cool dry place, put each disc in at least a paper sleeve, which is fine, you can rest assured you've made a great choice.

>Note
I would recommend checking your discs every 2-5 years and maybe make another set of copies every 10-25 years.

> 10-25
Excuse me I meant 20-25

>I have Windows 95 install CD's that are flawless because they've been inside a standard jewel case most of their lifespan.
I have music CDs from the 80s that still work flawlessly since I'm not a clumsy sloven that can't take care of their belongings, I even bought them used.
>they can be damaged
When they have to resort to that it shows how they have no argument.
Digital cucks only apply that cuck way of thinking to optical discs, if they applied it to everything else then they wouldn't have a computer or anything else since it can be damaged or destroyed or might stop working or might get lost.

It can be, if the data is primarily stored on the devices.
The problem is that it is a local backup, so you will still end up screwed if there is a file or local disaster.

>NAS
>its not turned on
Now I have no idea what you're doing.

>pixels blur together
Isn't that the point for reading something on a screen. Isn't higher PPI > AA diarrhea?

>what is WoL

Shit.

>I have music CDs from the 80s that still work flawlessly
I have a book that was printed in the early years of the 19th century, that was never stored in meme ideal conditions and it's still flawlessly readable.
Can your shitty CD last that long?

I call bullshit.
Provide proofs or fuck off.