Are programmers "engineers"?

Daily C++ cope post

>Are programmers "engineers"?

Yes, """production engineers""" and other assorted bullshit can fuck right off, if you cant make machines work for you then you arent any kind of engineer.

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You're almost right but not quite. JS is a great language thanks to the work of countless PhD students who get to work on improving it. You can absolutely be an engineer working with JS. It's just that what, 99.5%? of its users are just code monkeys

There's no other dynamic language as fast as JS and with so many fancy features straight out of the best functional programming languages.

don't saw the loli

kek, this.

>Someone who programs in C++ IS an engineer.
Not really

t. sepples programmer

only if they program an engine

Linus Torvalds said in a Q&A that was uploaded to youtube yesterday something along the lines of: "programming is something you can learn on your own, you could trust someone like that to do his job. a construction engineer that is self taught is a different story". meaning: the traditional engineering jobs have actual use to their titles. software developers, programmers, coders, software engineers - it doesn't matter. if they can chunk out lines of code at the level of skill you require them to, they are good to go.

You shouldn't take life advice from Torvalds, though. He comes from a background in academia himself and he sincerely thinks that yelling and typing all caps in emails are is a good style of leadership.

He is still right.

He's never wrong.

HTML is the best language!!!

A broken watch is right two times a day. Torvalds may allow code written by self-taught programmers into the kernel, because they have the resources and manpower to review and audit patches independently for every single patch. A small company does not have the time to do extensive follow-up of every single employee, and has to use some form of screening (read: education and previous experience).

I don't think it's the language itself, but rather the way you work with the language and how you go about choosing it in the first place. The core goal of engineering is to find the most efficient possible way of doing something, and if you're capable of doing that for large-scale projects you deserve the title. Being able to write fizzbuzz in C++ doesn't make you a more valid "software engineer" than somebody who's able to do it in JS, because at the end of the day neither of you are software engineers, you're just people who learned how to write fizzbuzz. What *does* validate your status as an engineer is being able to choose the right tool for the task at hand, as well as finding a way to execute it in the best way available.

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Are network engineer programmers?

That's absolutely false. Just because he's a big name doesn't mean he's always right.

He is mostly right though. But not completely so.

Anybody involved in

>hard real time
>embedded software
>avionics
>navigation systems
>gps
>any life critical systems
>database design
>etc (you get the idea)

is absolutely an engineer. I would argue that most traditional engineers never do any work that's as critical to so many people as software engineers

Engineer is basically a buzzword people use to describe jobs in the applied sciences that aren't research.
so it depends

>doesn’t know physics
>calls himself an engineer

>entering numbers in a standard formula or computer model to see if the bridge falls down if a heavy truck drives over it
>"physics"

No
I made a career change from electrical engineering to embedded software development -- software QA is an absolute joke compared to hardware QA

Not all of them. Some just don't "engineer" much at all, there is no calculated / experimentally measured optimum involved.

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Not really, unless you're doing formal spec and can mathematically prove the correctness of your algorithms, maybe.

#include
#include

int main()
{
char X[5];
printf("Hello user!\nWhich one do you choose?\nW for Windows, L for Linux \n");
scanf("%s",&X);
if (strcmp(X,"L")==0)
printf("You sir are a commie..");
if (strcmp(X,"W")==0);
printf("Master race");
for (;;strcmp(X,"L")!=0 && strcmp(X,"W")!=0){
printf("Dont be a fag");}
return 0;
}

depends what you're doing

Am I being an engineer when I spec out an entire OS, then write that shit based on the spec I made? Yes, I'd say so.

Am I being an engineer when I haphazardly slap together a python script that performs remote tests on the device running that OS? Not really.

You can't get a p eng for software"engineering", so no.

cant get enough of tv shit posts

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He is still right.

I've had several jobs where my title was "X Engineer" and am currently employed under such a title. When people ask what I do I say "I'm a programmer" because in all the cases, I'm programing machines half of the time. The other half may be designing circuits, managing a team, interviewing people, or whatever is part of the contract. All my downtime is spent in the same way as people who program exclusively but my projects are often long term, large, and passively implemented, with a majority of my contribution being on the design front.

Literally who cares what your title is. Mine never accurately describes the entirety of what I do. If someone cared that much about you, they'd just ask "what do you do" not "what's your title?", if they ask the latter just say what it is and move on.

Nigga, engineers don't do math either. You ever been to /sci/? The ability to think about what your creating before you create it is all engineering is.

Great programmers in the likes of Knuth and Thompson don't like to call themselves engineers but prefer the term craftsmen or an artisan.

Engineering in a nutshell is an application of proven methods, tools and science. But as Knuth and other great coders have said in interviews; programming is more of an art than science.

What do they program?

Machines? Electronics? Then yes. The electrician is an engineer.