Free software remained "cracy"-free for the longest time. Guess if we called it Democracyware from the get-go we could've gotten more traction. Cucks on Reddit discussing whether "meritocracy" is a realistic model? Congrats neckbeard, you've already made it about the power structure. Guess what, asshole, your fetishized magic languages do interact with the REAL real world after all, and now that your tunnel vision has allowed a former labor of love to become yet another weapon in the arsenal of the same old rich white boys, no surprise you have nowhere to turn. We call it growing up, kiddo, boo to the fucking hoo. B-b-but you wanted life to be about your toys? I hear TempleOS is looking for a new maintainer now that Karma Police posterchild is out of the pic.
What's next? The open source community (and hopefully the whole soul-crushing juggernaut our industry became) will be completely run into the ground by the psychotic SJWs that have spawned in the huge rotting shadow of the regime. And that's a good thing! Concerns about mass social control, anyone? Because that good ol' 1984 train has finally caught up with us flapping our arms and pretending to fly, and like everyone in the know is well aware since at least de Sade, the only way out of an established control machine is madness! Libertinism being cheap and safe madness for the masses, but madness nonetheless, which is why SJW propaganda started with gatekeeping sexual consent, and only attacked the nascent silicon hivemind when its positions in the world of smacking flesh were fortified.
Computing grew out of the war effort. Universities politicized it. Big business infantilized it. Now it's is filling up with energetic idiots because the barrier to entry is already too high for normal people to engage. Linus, the virtuoso who managed the 20th century's greatest intellectual endeavour, BY PERKELE - the veritable Nordic shaman who bent the spirit world to mankind's will - just threw in the towel. Man's got a family to take care of, can't blame him, but this means one thing: show's over, folks. Learn to grow fucking vegetables, because things are already in the hands of the next fucking generation.
If we're lucky, a new crop of disempowered and/or idealistic people will rise up, people with actual integrity, whose strife for a more valid world will revitalize computing in the form of a movement for building more humane software, stuff that empowers the individual. Because the current landscape of a myriad inscrutable, inertia-riden esoteric software ecosystems, and the cesspools of mental retardation that run on them, simply isn't cutting it anymore for anyone. Anyway, here's the next ICO that can promise you 10x profit overnight because hardly anyone understands the damn stuff anyway...
How is the nebulous term "meritocracy" a reason for Linus to remain in charge of a project that he started himself?
Logan Peterson
It's kinda obvious that Linus remains in charge because: 1. he started the project 2. he instated working mechanisms for organizing how other people participate (LKML, Git, GPL2)
And whlle LKML and Git make it easy for people to contribute to Linux, it's the GNU GPL which interfaces with the "real" world of intellectual property law, making it hard for people to work against Linux.
How would you oust the benevolent dictator of a mass voluntary project? You're free to play Antichrist and fork Linux - but your contributions to "Anti-Linux" would just be ported back under GPL terms.
Which is why anyone trying to disrupt Linux in order to balkanize computing further can only go after the man himself - and then against other hardline contributors.
Afterwards, once Linux has been turned into a quagmire, they'll blame the very same things that made it work originally - effectively, putting more useful tools out of reach of the masses by the way of social stigma. Imagine what would happen if instead of bringing Git to other intellectual endeavours, Git were made taboo.
But i dont understand one thing What will happen to the kernel itself?
Jordan Long
nobody would give a shit about linux if linus hadn't done a good job.
Parker Campbell
goes into recyclebin
Connor Anderson
It will fossilize. Software development is a continuous process, much like biological life. Whatever builds you have running will keep running until they can't run anymore, and whatever source snapshots have stored will stick around as long as the drives don't fail. However, once the *kernel development process* is killed, Linux will stop evolving, become ecologically irrelevant and fade out, going the way of other legacy software: towards replacement.
First, it will be replaced by hamhanded attempts at proprietary kernels. BSD-based as well as new approaches such as Redox. Being driven by the invisible hand of cost-cutting, they are likely to be worse in every aspect in which they deviate from the academic Unix legacy. Much confused suffering will ensue as people lap them up and computing becomes even less empowering than it currently is.
And then, after a while, some other brand new thing will arrive - the rigid world of business and politics (to which SJWs are nay but useful idiots) is good at hostile takeovers, but it can't hold back progress forever. Maybe a distributed microkernel approach, which will be even harder to stamp out than Linux.
Perhaps each electronics manufacturer would be pressed by circumstance to build their products and develop their drivers in full transparency. I'd be elated to see that. Perhaps, it'll just be some Skynet shit that'll fuck us all over. I, for one, prefer evolution to mass extinction events.
The code of conduct itself is fair by me. "If you have to write down your ethics, you've already been subverted", I guess, but only time will tell if the CoC will be actively abused. It is more about *the discussions about* the code of conduct - which show polarized and uninformed opinions on every side of the manufactured "argument".
It is also about how we software "engineers" are good at piling layers upon layers of abstraction when we write code, but, like most people, we tend to confuse the simplest levels of abstraction once we engage in discourse. Which is why SJW shills are finding it easy to disrupt our work - a work which I believe to be fundamentally constructive. Example: Back a few years ago, security updates and productivity features for a framework my company was relying on were arbitrarily delayed for months. Turned out people were debating the whole "master" and "slave" thing that recently came out of the woodwork again - in the issue tracker for a piece of software which did not even define those terms - it just called things what they were called upstream. Back then, it was no big deal. Today, the kernel which runs computers, smartphones, and millions of networked IoT devices around the globe, is being targeted by people who... "want their personalities to be accepted" or something? Sick cover story, bro.
On another level, it's also about how we're involved in a sphere of human activity which is simultaneously one of the most antisocial things you can do with your time as a person, yet somehow also has implications about society and civilization. Implications that reach far beyond the comfort zone of the main stakeholders - Nth-generation civillized white boys who are going to be completely fucked once this goddamn tower of cards falls down. It's kind of worrying that computing is so ubiquitous yet nobody on our end even seems to be trying to put things into the context of the whole supply chain.
As usual, SJW-ism has an effect of demonetization and loss of trust from the normal majority consumers, leading to loss.
- FreeBSD suddenly forcibly coercing/demanding from users to become political "ambassadors" by a Code of Conduct copy pasted from some feminist wiki, completely unrelated to the object of the community or their initial interests in becoming part of it. Result? Skilled staff loss. - SJW publications such as Salon forced into adwall. - The GNOME Foundation running short on money because they wasted it on a "Outreach Program for Women". - Ayo.js forked themselves from node.js over a white male. They spent a lot of time on making sure everyone declared their preferred pronouns and setting up a CoC and working on such fine slogans like "Humans before technology" and making a logo. Almost NO actual programmers joined and after a couple of months this became obvious since the changes brought by the project were comical and completely lacking in any showcase of programming education, and the thing started to lose steam. So despite all these stupid articles from polygon and gizmodo about the impending doom of node.js, Ayo.js is dead after 5 months. Examples keep on appearing exponentially with each day. - Firefox seeing a continual loss of support from its userbase because Mozilla misappropriated donations for Firefox into social justice socio-political bullcrap, because if users wanted to donate into such garbage they would have gone to specialized organizations and not Mozilla where they expect that funding a piece of software funds that and only that.
- GitHub. Go to the explore page and you'll see it overtaken by "a showcase of diverse developers" which is just a list of black women and white knights either doing simple ruby crap or writing ideas in text files on a repo and calling themselves developers. Form over function, outnumbering of normal developers who do what they do best by idiotic rainbow-goggle SJWs who care more about changing wording to please their little virtue-signaling egos than making anything functional. Their mantra: "I'm a programmer if i feel like it, not if i know how to program." - Yahoo. Hired Marissa Mayer as their CEO in 2012. Mayer had a lot of solid experience at Google, including some time as VP of Search and other big products. But once she was put in charge of Yahoo she made a series of boneheaded management decisions like getting rid of remote work for employees (despite using it herself), buying tumblr (whose market value they promptly obliterated) and hiring Katie Couric to be "Global Anchor" of Yahoo News (which was by then totally irrelevant). By the time Mayer resigned in 2017 the company had spent five years spinning its wheels, redesigning and retiring its own products and acquiring random startups despite continuous financial struggle. Most notably she and the management she put in place were accused of discriminating against men for years, including firing men for no reason just to replace them with women.
Samuel Wright
- Hasbro for example managed to bankrupt the GI Joe brand by employing SJW writers into their comics, ruining the brand value. - Marvel keeps losing money over the new female "muh womyn power" Captain Marvel, who keeps being rehashed and forced in apparent desperation yet keeps failing and not making returns. It is of great comedic value that the movie touted as most progressive and successful, Black Panther, appealed to conservative values such as ethnocentrism and traditionalism. - Disney's Star Wars has now lost trust among prop sellers, a first in the brand's history. Shelves are filled with unsold TLJ "womyn powa" toys which are going to be written off as a major financial loss for both the sellers and Disney. Now sellers have no alternative but to scrutinize all future Disney's Bolshevik marketing projections and force increased costs on Disney as a risk tax. Disney even lost a potential market of 1.3 billion people in China which cites "Baizuo" and "Low IQ (SJW) writing" as critiques. - Video Game developers appealing to a vocal minority of SJW's who don't even pay for games but rather gather around a single "representative" professional critic/influencer via bubbled social contacts to engage in mob criticism/coercion, who are merely there to support that one career critic against products they don't even care about; resulting in a loss of the core majority of consumers and a net loss in revenue due to appeal to vocal minority over majority. It's like the religious preachers who exist to preach against products they don't use with fellow church member mobs, yet who are mistaken in ignorance by the object of criticism as consumers.
Kayden Murphy
Yay free market. Fuck those things though. Technology benefits from the intellectual strivings of young idealists. Culture on the other hand does not benefit from Hollywood forcefeeding sadomasochistic eternal boyhood daydreams to children. No matter how many jobs their high production value may create.
>The vis insita, or innate force of matter, is a power of resisting by which every body, as much as in it lies, endeavours to preserve its present state, whether it be of rest or of moving uniformly forward in a straight line >whether it be of rest or of moving uniformly forward in a straight line >moving uniformly forward in a straight line
The tendency of a body to resist change in acceleration.
Ethan Wood
>straight line >straight
On a side note, curious how the colloquial English word for "heterosexual" originates from a more general term for "non-deviant", i.e. "law-abiding", isn't it?
Heck, it almost sounds like members of minority groups who have been previously marginalized unto criminality and are struggling to reintegrate can be manipulated into doing the patriarchy's dirty work.
There's nothing that radicalized me to the core than what happened with open source and Linux.
I feel like world war 3 has started. Deep sense of desperation and my impending doom and honestly if war broke out I'd go psychotic on all these cucks destroying last bastion of freedom. Fuck you niggers
Joshua Wilson
Bravo, I say!
Jonathan Hughes
get a life nerd
Eli Jones
foss was always a preaching ground for virtue signaling anti-capitalist leftists and if that upsets you then you should have never gotten into it because it was always there.
Christopher Jenkins
They came for the games, now they're coming for you.
Aiden Turner
No, that does not upset me; in fact, "left-right" politics, especially the American variety, bore me to death. Collectivism vs. individualism, top-down vs. horizontal organization, conservatism vs. progressivism, interventionism vs. laissez-faire, whatever, those are just design patterns. You're supposed to pick them for the task at hand, not construct your goddamn fucking identity out of them. That's like having a favorite side of the coin.
What worries me is the possibility of state-level actors using the sentiments of triggered people on both sides of the fence to actually disrupt and/or subvert the movement. And what actually upsets me is how the computing community as a whole is utterly defenseless against such crude ideological attacks - chiefly because most of us live in a bubble where we think that it's OK to just keep building bigger and more accurate guns, which will then just magically trickle up to the "good guys".
>computing community as a whole is utterly defenseless very true, but again the framework to allow this type of easy usurpation was laid in from the very beginning. "Anyone and everyone" was allowed to come and speak their minds. That's a great concept but the road to hell is paved with good intentions and if you don't take control then /someone else will/. It's the plight of humans at a very base level: we simply can't have nice things without a fight; there will always be those who covet.
Holy fuck I haven't seen you tards sperg out this bad in a long time
Hudson Barnes
Saved.
Care to offer a better term for the network of human beings involved in setting up and maintaining the information flows that enable you to post that picture?
As you so deftly elucidated, "the intelligence community" is quite a misnomer, perhaps it's time we reappropriated it in a glorious blast of autism?
>only time will tel if the CoC will be actively abused. it's not a question of if, it's a question of when, and how often, and how badly — just like it ALWAYS is. This is no different from anything else in life. When writing laws for a system you HAVE to write them assuming they'll be misapplied and mishandled. This is a basic concept but one that everyone forgets anytime they introduce lazy legislation that'll benefit themselves — they're too deluded to understand that it will be used against them.
Colton Martin
find them for yourself, it has been happening all around
David Jones
cuck off faggot day of the rope is near
Jackson Ross
yep. coding is only for straight white males apparantly. FUCK TRANNIES AND NIGGERS
Noah Cooper
It's going to be because people want to see Jow Forums burn.
Jordan Gomez
>Computing grew out of the war effort. Universities politicized it. Big business infantilized it. Now it's is filling up with energetic idiots because the barrier to entry is already too high for normal people to engage. Linus, the virtuoso who managed the 20th century's greatest intellectual endeavour, by PERKELE - the veritable Nordic shaman who bent the spirit world to mankind's will - just threw in the towel. Man's got a family to take care of, can't blame him, but this means one thing: show's over, folks. Learn to grow fucking vegetables, because things are already in the hands of the next fucking generation. Unironically well put
Luke Brown
But user the sjws are just paving the way for the year of the linux desktop
Alexander Collins
when you say it like that..
Aiden Powell
Whoa, I've been coding for years and a Jow Forums poster and I'm half-nigger. Don't bring us into this faggot shit with trannies. We're your bros.
Charles Nguyen
SJWs use social weapons to destroy and these autistic dorks fall for it every time ,bc they are socially clueless on how social networks work.
Oliver Scott
You mean change in speed.
Ayden Perry
Don't worry it's only a matter of time before they find a reason to turn on you too
Jackson Bennett
it was only a matter of time and popularity until the HR department took over the free software "movement", you fucks are too clueless about social dynamics to do anything about it and will get crushed and obliterated every single time, enjoy coding for the man, even when doing it as a hobby
This: Yes it is! Meritocracy is a buzzword for the mediocre. It's a Hail Mary for those who think that they *should* get the attention they "deserve".
Jackson Jackson
>CoC Do you pronounce it "cock"?
Dylan Martin
Sad he who has been mooching of MIT etc...
Grayson Adams
yes
Sebastian Rogers
it will work out on the long term because ineffectivity will set in and people will move on to projects that actually work, but it will take years and a lot of pain, it won't be any sort of heroic reconquest, more like a slow drain and re-balancing of the universe
hopefully nerd culture will burn along the way to never return to this world
Sebastian Mitchell
Sure, the spergy STEM type might not have developed the intuition of how social dynamics work. But now that all the normies are on the Internet, this sort of thing can be measured just like anything else. In fact, that's probably what The Man is doing as we speak. The social technology genie is out of the bottle, folks, and even Social Justice Operatives (sorry folks, those people are the complete opposite of "Warriors") are going to realize sooner or later they got the short end of the bargain. Boy, ain't it gonna be funny when they start asking biotechnology for their balls back.
Sure, it's going to be a few more years or decades before the dynamics of large social groups can be accurately predicted at sufficient scale. But prediction of individual psychological responses (at least as far as they're expressed by points and clicks) is already within reach. However, only a chosen few (like Linus) have demonstrated the ability to simultaneously fix memory leaks and see the human-scale picture. Where do we even get more such people?
I didn't really want to make that innuendo myself, but yeah, checks out. The term being introduced by someone who presumably had theirs removed, it's probably how they pronounce it in their head. Funny how programmers are among the last people that'll admit that regular words also have power, innit?
>hopefully nerd culture will burn along the way to never return to this world AND AMEN TO THAT, MY DUDE.
>hopefully nerd culture will burn along the way to never return to this world
>AND AMEN TO THAT, MY DUDE.
Why would that be a good thing? Just curious.
Dylan Reyes
Kek, I read it like Social Justice Oppressives
Eli Smith
What is your opinion on Genode and Sculpt OS? Could that be move in right direction?
William Adams
>Why would that be a good thing? Just curious. Not him(jim/jer) Because it won't be a mainstream "LOOK AT ME I'M SUCH A GEEK" fad on FB and IG and it will be just people who actually have niche interests and hobbies. But I doubt it will actually die soon or even if it does, it will take the actual nerds with it.
>But I doubt it will actually die soon or even if it does, it will take the actual nerds with it. Doesn't have to.
In lake Mälaren outside of Stockholm, there was a minor issue of pollution from boats some 10 years ago. One cause was the good economy. Pelople who really didn't belong on the lake could just buy boats over their weight class.
Not that people who suddenly has money should be banned from owning a motor boat. But it's one thing if you grow organically into something, it's another if you just buy a lifestyle.
Nolan Perez
What do you expect me to tell you? Right now I have a hard enough time rolling out continuous integration with test-driven development and consistent runtime environment (via Docker and CoreOS); trying to figure out whether Kubernetes would be an improvement to that or just overengineered cancer; trying to hack together scripts that earn me a passive income; and maintaining my sanity and social life. I wouldn't even know where evaluating an entirely new kernel architecture and development approach would fit with that. You should ask Linus or some other systems software bigwig.
I do have an unpopular opinion which is at least tangentially related to what you're asking: the biggest step in the right direction that has happened during my lifetime is the whole Web platform. Even thought it has its quirks, it is beautifully decentralized, and the whole "interactive document" paradigm does a great job at concealing all the underlying complexity from the end user.
Just like Linus is vehement about not EVER breaking the API between the kernel and userspace, in my ideal world each product owner should be equally concerned with the UI not misleading the actual human user, E V E R. In my job, I'm just trying to instate the aforementioned sane development practices and lay a foundation for all that. At the end of the day, actual psychologists should play a large role in the design, development and quality assurance of software. This would also have the side effect of preventing shenanigans and driving away any victim card players as far as they need to be driven to get treatment.
EU regulations on cookies, memes are also a step in the right direction. They obviously can't be enforced - but they're saying, "this shit can fuck with your head worse than TV, so you better take it seriously". And if anyone is caught red handed, EU now has a framework for suing them.
Because "nerd culture" is cancer at its purest - infantile, fetishistic, antagonizing. Which is why it's being so easily appropriated by (and marketed to) people like gamers and self-styled "incels" who are quite plainly failing at being self-sufficient human beings.
(As for pronouns: "they" if you please - I identify as the multiplicity of notions that have passed through my mind at one point or another.)
But lets say that you genuinely likes an old video game from the 90s. And that you just for the fun of it makes a cross stitch from a screencap or motives from that game. Would that be "nerd culture"?
Jason Jackson
Thank you for lengthy answer user. It is really refreshing to find someone who can express himself so eloquently like you, especially here.
As for my question... Not sure what I was expecting except maybe your own thoughts about technology and philosophy behind it. For some time I'm feeling like something is missing. I'm pretty much set as for money goes but I'm tired of all this politicising of technology. Tired of those people pushing their agenda.
I guess I just want to find project to put my heart and soul into it and just create unconstrained by so much bullshit in corporate and as of lately open source world.
Maybe I'm just an grumpy old Lisper, remnant from time when engineering actually meant something.
Anyway time to finish this rant, I wish you all the best in future user.
Jordan Brooks
No, I think that would be called... vaporwave?
"Nerd culture" doesn't usually involve creativity (although it may allow for it); the defining trait of "nerd culture" is identifying oneself purely by a mode of consumption.
Let me put it this way. I like Blank Banshee "alternate timeline" vaporwave but not Macintosh Plus "retro nostalgia" vaporwave. Can't stand "synthwave", either. Why? Because Blank Banshee invented an original sound - and Macintosh Plus just slowed shit down and relied on it sounding like your childhood.
That's what "nerd culture" is: finding it "cute" to act like a socially inept, wide-eyed brainiac kid - but from the safe, privileged position of an affluent adult. It's a worse kind of hipsterdom than looking like a Boomer; and when I see someone with a "nerd" aesthetic, my first thought is "this person is stupid and can be easily manipulated".
A Lisper, you say? Well, in that case I can tell you what to dedicate your time to, and I would be grateful to you all my life if you make a breakthrough with:
>Eslisp >ClojureScript >Wisp >any Lisp dialect that compiles to JavaScript with a minimum of layers of abstraction inbetween
Modern JavaScript has a great runtime and ecosystem, but the syntax itself leaves a lot to be desired. ES6 is actually fucking great (besides the weird equality and some things being extra verbose) - but people are largely infected by the "JS is horrible" meme, and shiver at the thought of JS being used as a systems scripting language - even though it's arguably better than Python for that purpose.
There are already languages which build on top of JavaScript, adding extra features then compiling to minimal JS; however, the most popular ones keep the shitty curly brace syntax, and the only one that did away with braces, CoffeeScript, was arbitrarily deprecated "because ES6 added lambdas" or some such shit.
If there was a S-expression based syntax to unify HTML, CSS, JavaScript and backend/glue code, AND, more importantly, it was accessible enough so that enough people would make enough noise about it and it would gain sufficient traction and mindshare, we would have on our hands a modern equivalent of the old Lisp machines. A computer with a mixed graphical/text UI, which would allow you to dig arbitrarily deep starting from the data displayed on your screen.
Browser vendors have already created the platform, the only thing missing is the sane and consistent syntax of S-expressions. And since those work like the parentheses of basic arithmetics, you could teach practical functional programming to middle schoolers, and have a computationally empowered society in no time.
> How is the nebulous term "meritocracy" a reason for Linus to remain in charge of a project that he started himself? There have been plenty of projects started by plenty of other people. And most of them failed. Linux didn't. I wonder why.
Tyler Wood
Ahhhh Javascript... It isn't really that bad like most people parroting it to be. I do agree that something like CoffeeScript is way better syntax wise.
It wouldn't be that hard to make something to unify all that, with few smart people of course. But I'm not sure it's worth it honestly. There is beauty and elegance in simplicity, so why go and add more and more layers of abstraction? I think we need something like wasm or similar technology to become widespread. That would really push us to next level.
That brings us back to my original rant. To achieve this all those companies would have to work towards the same goal. How do you think that will happen when quality of code is getting worse and worse and we have bunch of morons discussing what word is least offensive?
Mantra is get most money for least amount of work. So they will rather continue to mine and sell data from users than build something that will empower them. I feel lost sometimes, talking to most of those people. There's no real ambition, curiosity, that... Spark that burns from the inside and turns in the fire. Quite sad really, it's like a bunch of automatons, superficial, dreaming of making another Snapchat.
I wandered a bit, you have good ideas but I feel we need to tear down this house of cards and build a new heaven on strong foundations. If that makes sense.
Wyatt Walker
The "teardown" you described already happened - it's called "smartphones". The iPhone brought pocket computers to the masses, everyone else followed suit. People are still losing the "spark" of being a pioneer though, suits are encroaching, and people are quibbling over politics. Why? Because the world of programming is becoming saturated.
This is not about how many layers of abstraction there are; abstraction is a stack, you just interact with the top of it. This is about how many different stacks there are; i.e. the problem is called fragmentation, which makes saturation even worse.
We can invent as many programming languages as we like, all of them fundamentally doing the same thing on wildly different levels of abstraction and with wildly varying levels of success. What doesn't change is that crossing the boundaries between languages has a high cost in terms of human cognitive effor - even if they all run on the same underlying platform, be it WebAssembly, JVM, GraalVM, CLR, whatever.
Thus, there will be fewer and fewer New Big Things and Next Snapchats to be invented, but somehow we're going to need more and more people just to be doing the same amount of work. As you noticed, programming is rapidly becoming a Bullshit McJob™. And the culprit is not abstraction, but fragmentation. Hence the Linux kernel is important as a stalwart example of a project which is ubiquitous, long-lived, and written in plain old C.
Complexity is not isotropic. It's a good thing to have multiple competing CPU architectures and multiple OS kernels; those things will be abstracted away at one layer or another. It's less of a good thing to have multiple competing high-level language ecosystems, or multiple GUI environments. Let's say WebAssembly becomes widespread. It's going to be like Java without the plugin, nothing more. That'll be *one* layer of abstraction broken through. The one-time cost of installing a Java plugin is easily forgotten. Sure, it could be more secure. Or less.
To empower everyone through computing, we need to break down not vertical, but horizontal boundaries. We need a high-level, consistent, end-user-friendly *syntax* that abstracts over multiple platforms and environments. Right now, Average Joe is exposed to 2 main platforms: the Web, and Native Apps. For better or worse, JavaScript is the Web's native scripting language; and it also has a good desktop/server implementation, Node. But it's as confusing to learn as any other "curly brace" language. And it lacks homoiconicity. Thus, ClojureScript (which is syntactically identical to Clojure, making the learner productive on the JVM too) would be our best bet for Universal Language X.
When I was in high school, they attempted to teach C++ for 2 years, then the very same things but in Java for another 2 years. Useless. But there's no reason S-expressions can't be taught to young children, branching out organically from basic maths. Students would have an invaluable tool for knowledge management and self-expression from an early age. None of that useless Scratch "Lifelong Kindergarten" bullshit. Although "(if X Y Z)" is becomes a drag-and-droppable building block much more easily than "if (X) then {Y} else {Z}". Code is still a kind of language; text is still a kind of graphics. Let's start from that.
Then, those people with a particular knack for computer science could move on to tackling the hard low-level problems. And still lead a healthy and balanced lifestyle, much like Linus does. And the rest of us, even if not all keep coding regularly, would still have a good intuition about how this most disturbing invention, the information-processing machine, works. And by extension, how emotionally undisturbed thinking works. That's what my maths teacher used to say, bless her: The point of doing maths problems is learning to think rigorously. And that's something everyone could benefit from if they wanna survive/go to Mars/get laid/whatever. Well, here's a more engaging and more useful way to do it than abstract algebra. And in case anyone's wondering how and why I jumped from Linus and Social Justice Operatives to extolling the virtues of a hypothetical JavaScript/Lisp hybrid for everyone, even kids, to learn... It's called a line of flight, fuckers. Learn to zoom out for your own goddamn sake. And check out some sci-fi from 50-100 years ago. Sure, it's funny how many things they've gotten wrong. It's even funnier how many things they've gotten right.
>If there was a S-expression based syntax to unify HTML, CSS, JavaScript and backend/glue code, AND, more importantly, it was accessible enough so that enough people would make enough noise about it and it would gain sufficient traction and mindshare, we would have on our hands a modern equivalent of the old Lisp machines.
Then you would have a pile of shit with S-expression syntax around it, nothing more. JavaScript is inherently a hacked together piece of shit language made to add small bits of interactivity on early webpages. The more shit hacked together and thrown on it with things like ES6 doesn't make it any better it just makes it more of a bloated mess.
Adding more formats and things like JavaScript, CSS, etc on what should have been a simple text format only serves to create even more of a bloated mess. Changing the syntax won't change that. Please don't denigrate the Lisp machines by comparing them to this webshit. Lisp machines were elegant, they weren't just S-expressions on top of piles of shit.
> A computer with a mixed graphical/text UI, which would allow you to dig arbitrarily deep starting from the data displayed on your screen.
I don't know what fantasy land you live in webshit, but HTML/CSS/JavaScript is absolutely not how you should go about creating graphics. HTML is meant to create simple text documents, not graphic applications, and JavaScript is too slow to extend it with general graphics.
Instead of JavaScript I suggest sticking with the JVM. The JVM is garbage collected so it is more like a Lisp-machine then a usual C-machine. Plus it is actually a machine unlike JavaScript with its own simple and elegant machine code. When you compile to JavaScript you are transpiilng which is retarded. We need a graphics framework like Piccolo2D or JavaFX but better.
William Nelson
what did you just say to me you linus bitch
you said you wouldnt behave like this anymroe LINUS
Leo Scott
watching right wingers seethe is my favorite hobby
