/fog/ - Friendly OpenBSD General

I use OpenBSD with softraid for my backups. But I'd kill for HAMMER on OpenBSD.

linux tard here

any good reasons to move to bsd now ? and where do i start ?

OpenBSD gets stuck while booting from install USB. Gives a weid "bridge mem address conflict" and then gets stuck there.

Reminder that OpenBSD is lacking the following things:
>A robust filesystem such as ZFS, btrfs, or HAMMER2
>Any kind of journaling FS
>NFSv4
>Support for more than one core on various parts of the OS. The firewall, pf, is confirmed to be one of these parts, although there may be more.
>802.11ac networking
>Nvidia graphics from this decade
>AMD Vega graphics
>Certain Intel graphics, at least judging from comparing the manpage to the wikipedia article
>Broadcom wireless
>Bluetooth
>WINE
>LUKS/dm-crypt
>Linux compatibility layer
>and probably more

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have you eaten your daily ration of toe jam?

I’m running it comfortably on an IBM X31 Thinkpad and want to see how old of a Thinkpad I can install it on. I have some really early ones, does it need a 486 or can I use a 386?

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and that's a good thing

Elaborate.

i need cuda, bluetooth, ssd and plug n play monitor support. can do?

This guy is smooth. Smart and respectable, unlike Linus or Stallman.
youtube.com/watch?v=OXS8ljif9b8

is there any point in contributing code to openbsd? I'm pretty sure theo won't accept anything that is not security related or something that increases the attack surface area. what can we even do, port loonix applications?

>what can we even do, port loonix applications?
Yes please

like what? is there a priority list of some kind?

The larger your country, the harder it becomes to secure your borders.

What do you want that's not already a package?

Linux getting CoC'd was a blessing in disguise. Very soon we're all going to be using the #1 most secure #1 most politic-free OS ever. We're all gonna make it.

i don't want anything, just looking for something to contribute to. otherwise it is pretty pointless using this system

I'm sorry friendo, that ain't happening unless he allows he starts putting in more binary blob drivers in the kernel

LO fucking L

It's the most secure because DNS resolving doesn't work at all, and thus can't connect to the internet.

lol, what the fuck are you doing to fuck that up. dns works fine.

Why would you want to connect to the Internet, with it's retarded DNS? All the free people use Internet 2, exclusively.

I've just setupped (finally) unbound with dns-over-tls, works fine. What's your problem kiddo?

definitely not bluetooth
ssd works fine
I have no idea about the other 2

change card, use an old one for install, after the install put back your card.
My PC has a AMD and Nvidia cards and had to remove the Nvidia to get the desktop
GhostBSD I will finish to install tonight

GhostBSD is the easiest
learn the pkg-add command (apt-get/dnf)

>A robust filesystem such as ZFS, btrfs, or HAMMER2
not necessary for a desktop
>Any kind of journaling FS
not necessary for a desktop
>Nvidia graphics from this decade
should be boycotted world wide, props to theo
>Broadcom wireless
broadcom is garbage, if you ever worked with linux you'd know that too
>Linux compatibility layer
nobody needs this
>WINE
nobody needs this
>Bluetooth
nobody needs this

copypasting the same shit without understanding the technical implications, de/g/enerate fa/g/gots on Jow Forums as usual

A better filesystem is neccesary for a desktop if you store your files over long periods. Other than that, you're right about everything. Long live OpenBSD. I hope this general lasts.

I definitely wouldn't mind in the slightest if openBSD would adopt HAMMER2 while avoiding excessive bloat and manages to do it securely, if it doesn't break the system
That being said, I don't know if that's even possible, although I do remember they had an interest in adopting it

>A robust filesystem such as ZFS, btrfs, or HAMMER2
No real need, but openbsd is interested on porting HAMMER2 at some point.
>Any kind of journaling FS
Its ffs does soft updates. Better than a dumb journal.
>NFSv4
Is crap. Dragonfly won't implement it either for the same reason.
>Nvidia graphics from this decade
It's more of a case of NVIDIA not supporting open source. Fuck NVIDIA.
>Broadcom wireless
Are garbage. You're better off.
>Bluetooth
Was removed because it's one complex piece of shit and a huge security risk.
>WINE
Won't run directly because it needs risky complexity. Run via qemu.
>LUKS/dm-crypt
Use crypto-raid.
>Linux compatibility layer
Build your software for OpenBSD or use qemu.

Frim what Ive grasped over the couple if days what anons miss in OpenBSD and keeping them from transitioning are the following:

Major

1.Modern filesystem with data loss prevention measures.

2.Compatibility tools with other filesystems like NTFS EXT4 Dmcrypt. Ala ntfs3g on linux.

3. VM support

Minor

4.Upgraded package manager. Pkg_ got nothing on pacman

5.Better documentation to help transitioning by showing default settings and showing how to chabge them. Ex enabling SMP/HT or default allowed ram per process etc.

From what Ive read about NFSV4 on wikipwdia ita juat a secure protocol to access network files. It is not needed unless if you run a server and we already have Sftp. Am I missing something?

thx user will give it a shot

I've been using OpenBSD for nearly 20 years, do yourself a favour and use it for a while. It's nice.

Fire it up in virtualbox first, have a tinker. You can literally install a full system with X in a few minutes. Throw a few of your favourite packages on and it's good to go, even easier now with syspatch.

The thing is that HAMMER2 is still work in process. It's not fully implemented in DragonFlyBSD and even the specs are not completely done.
I remember a presentation where some OpenBSD dev joked about how they might port HAMMER2 if it doesn't become the new GNU Hurd.

Is ftp(1) fine for general http downloads? I usually use wget under GNU.

Yes.

It transfers files and could essentially replace wget. I'm not sure what you're asking.

I'm just surprised to find that openbsd's ftp command is not strictly for ftp transfers

From what you gather when you've been on Jow Forums for some time.
>1.Modern filesystem with data loss prevention measures.
If journaling is your only excuse, then you are a fucking retard, because NTFS doesn't have journaling either.
>2.Compatibility tools with other filesystems like NTFS EXT4 Dmcrypt. Ala ntfs3g on linux.
OSX and Windows don't have that either, don't see why it needs to be the alround whore like linux, that does (in regards to file systems), a lot but nothing thoroughly, especially when it comes to closed sources fs.
>4.Upgraded package manager. Pkg_ got nothing on pacman
True, i personally dislike it because it's not flexible and lacks verbosity and functionality, but it can do within the context of what openbsd provides as a whole os, everything that's necessary.

>5.Better documentation to help transitioning by showing default settings and showing how to chabge them. Ex enabling SMP/HT or default allowed ram per process etc.
>Better documentation
This is the cleanest, smallest and most functional operating systems you can find with a fantastic documentation. The majority of things can be found either online on openbsd.org or in the man pages. If you are to lazy to read, technology is nothing for you.

NFSv4 is garbage as the entire NFS code is bad and not dealing with modern day problems. You'd first have have setup an tunnel in order to forcefully pass your nfs traffic through it so you have an encrypted data stream. The only thing i remember v4 got was kerberos based authentication, which is still shit because the entire traffic in the network is still plain text.

>3. VM support
Most people don't use VMs because they are to stupid to find a purpose for it, just look at the average "what can i do with my rpi"-threads, now coin that to a vm.

I've seen things your programs wouldn't believe.

[laughs]

Stack frames unwinding with Turing complete behaviour.

I watched threads racing trampoline bindings in ld.so.

All those overwrites will be lost in memory
like [coughs] accesses to NULL.

Time to dump core.

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Nice that OpenBSD is becoming a thing now! I've always heard about it but never tried it. I'm pretty much a greenhorn when it comes to anything UNIX (went from Win10 to Ubuntu and want to give OpenBSD a try now), so maybe the question sounds stupid; how much knowledge and effort are required to install it and to do basic office work on it (presentations, pdf viewing, web browsing, and printing and scanning)? It seems pretty niche of an OS from the view of an outsider but surely, there was to be some way to make LibreOffice/LaTeX/Firefox (or a pendant) work on it. Are there any pitfalls to avoid or things to look out for when you're new to everything? In the light of the current way tech is going (looking primarily at Windows), I also want to learn the basics of UNIX. Where should I start, are there any good books on it?
Thanks in advance!

>not necessary for a desktop
"Necessary" is a funny term. Very few things are truly necessary in a computer system. X, for example, definitely isn't, and neither is doas or ftp(1) that fetches HTTP links, but OpenBSD has them. A filesystem with checksums prevents silent data corruption. Any system that stores important data has the performance can handle it should have one.
You need at least an 80486 with an FPU.

>NFSv4 is garbage as the entire NFS code is bad and not dealing with modern day problems
Frankly, unless you know you need NFS, you should just sync your data with Unison or Syncthing.

I mean openBSD probably has the best banter out of any community at this point

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yeah im surprised none of the systemd haters has screamed MUH UNIX PHILOSOPHY at this discovery, double standards is one hell of a drug

OpenBSD doesn't come with a graphical desktop environment, although you do get X and a few small window managers out of the box. If you want something like XFCE or some other full desktop, you'd have to install that and set it up manually. FF and libreoffice can also be installed.

I just install curl on every system I use.

>Any system that stores important data has the performance can handle it should have one.
Surprise, the windows desktop market share says something completely different.
And no, need is not a funny term, it's pretty precise and defines boundaries. X is necessary because, the majority of services that are used for a desktop system are graphical and imply access that visualizes content, which the frame server X can accomplish. There is also the administrative work that can and is done in a lot of companies over tools that are configurable from both the GUI or TUI, for which in most cases the GUI provides limited functionality but fast access to data and manipulation. TUIs on the other hand usually provide an advanced functionality for batch data manipulation. The reason that you have to argue around doas on a multiuser system is simply ridiculous. ftp ... that's about the only thing that we can agree on

Presentations, pdf viewing, web browsing, printing and scanning are all possible, but you'll have to set up your environment and download the needed packages first
It definitely doesn't come with remotely as many packages as ubuntu has pre-installed, so you'll have to download what you need
Libreoffice, Latex and Firefox can all be used.You should avoid using guides, try to install through the instructions given to you by the OS. To learn the basics of UNIX you dont really have to read anything, just install openBSD on a vm (for starters) and try to set up a working system from there, you should learn a bunch through that experience alone

> ftp — Internet file transfer program
it, as per the UNIX philosophy, does 1 thing and does it well, as in it transfers files over the internet

What do facts matter to fa/g/s?

>Surprise, the windows desktop market share says something completely different.
I said "should have one", meaning it would be the right design choice. The market share of Windows proves that you can have a major desktop OS that spies on the user, but that doesn't make it something to imitate.

Advanced filesystem features are an improvement the same way GUIs are an improvement. You can do without them, but they help you accomplish your goal (configuring a complex tool in one case, reliably storing data in the other). Multiuser systems did fine for years with just su. It's the same thing. When OpenBSD implements checksums (whether via HAMMER2 or not), I am sure you will change your mind.

Arguing whether openBSD should have X/Y/Z feature, when you won't write code for it, is utterly pointless
No dev will ever take your complaints seriously if you don't at least have the code to back it up, and no dev ever will bother to write code based on what you or the community may want.

UFS has snapshot functionality and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAPBL
It's just not block journaling.
>Multiuser systems did fine for years with just su.
Until people realized that it's not flexible enough for automation purposes, reasons why we have sudo/doas, so you can limited permissions to an action that would change system behavior aka administrative tasks.

Just shows you people are discussing things which you don't even bother to google

People are just realizing you need integrity checking everywhere. Hopefully they will realize the advantages of system-wide undo (dragonflybsd.org/cgi/web-man?command=undo§ion=1) soon. I don't know what you think I have failed to Google or which posters you think I am. I have said nothing about journaling.

undo literally only works for HAMMER though, and it only works because HAMMER allowed it to have that kind of functionality

Yes, for now. If more people understand and embrace it, future filesystems will be implemented to support undo.

Well, guess we will have to see

It isn't pointless. Arguing about the necessity of features and their strong and weak points helps you choose where to use OpenBSD and where to use something else.

I supposed the people arguing were using openBSD either way, my bad if that's not the case

Indeed. I am sure checksums will go mainstream, but I wouldn't bet money on undo yet.

As much as i like the work on dragonfly, it's to much of a cluster fuck of freebsd than anything that could imply a sane, secure and well interlocked system as openbsd is. And i doubt that if hammer2 would be adopted for freebsd that it would find its way in openbsd, they rather start from scratch again like they did with vmm

I doubt anyone ITT uses just one operating system, nor should he. An OpenBSD general doesn't need to be an always-use-OpenBSD-for-everything general. It should promote use of OpenBSD where it is a good idea and debate where that is.

some of these are cool and comfy
ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/songs/

As a desktop, router, web server, dns, ntp or smtp server it's sufficient. I don't know about the whole java bs though. I'd assume application servers are not fun.

Sounds right to me. I'd like to hear from those who have run JVM applications on OpenBSD.

Hello friends. What packages could I install to have all international fonts display in Firefox?

roboto

thank you

How do you expand a partition in OpenBSD?
I can't use gparted because it doesn't recognise the file system.

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>How do you expand a partition in OpenBSD?
google.com/search?q=How do you expand a partition in OpenBSD?&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab

Does anyone run openBSD as their desktop OS? I'm curious to try it, but I wonder if there are limitations that I should consider.

>but I wonder if there are limitations that I should consider.
see:

>send from my iphone
kys irl thx

in english?

Yup, main limitations are muh niche software and muh gaming. Anyone looking to switch to openbsd for any other reason than to use it because of itself should steer clear. The community is heavy on tradition, and they dont care what you want unless you articulate well and have code, and thats just for them to listen, your idea can still be shit.

The whole idea is that there is a sect of people who are very content, and if you are content with what they are content with, you will also be content. The difficulty comes in finding out what is possible, the learning curve is higher than linux, but the payoff is higher too IMO.

I cannot stress enough how correct this is

openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#GrowPartition

This better be good I just deleted my Gentoo installation to try it out.

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And if it isn't?

Openbsd is shit

I'll write a strongly worded email on the mailing list

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openBSD is absolute dog shit and everyone knows it. There's nothing wrong with linux, this is just more fud.

fuck you you stupid fag kill yourself where do you live i'll come kick your dumb ass till your in the fucken ocean you retard moron

>Ala ntfs3g on linux.
OpenBSD has both ntfs3g and read-only native NTFS support.
>Pkg_ got nothing on pacman
What's so great about pacman?

Idk I grew up with it, mustve spent a fortune on the fucking arcade

That sounds quite lovely, actually. That's also the impression I get from the Slackware guys.

Can these threads be made into a bsd general? So to include netBSD and dragonfly bsd more as they too are viable options. t.netbsd user

I'm in favor of this.