one easy trick to price gouge using old designs, vintage audiophiles hate them!
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/ag/ - Audio General
Jackson Anderson
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Nathan Richardson
Is Dolby Atmos a meme? I don't mean the retarded bounce of the ceiling shit, I mean where you actually mount height channels.
Charles Peterson
efficiency and distortion
KLIPSCH BELIEVES FOUR PRINCIPLES TO BE THE FOUNDATION
FOR GREAT SOUND:
•
HIGH EFFICIENCY:
Every Klipsch speaker is horn-loaded
because the horn shape is perfect for accurate and dynamic
sound transmission. Greater efficiency means lower
distortion which means maximum realism.
•
DYNAMIC RANGE:
Klipsch horn technology reproduces the
softest sounds with remarkable clarity and detail and the
loudest sounds with no harshness or distortion. That’s what’s
known as the best of both worlds.
•
CONTROLLED DIRECTIVITY:
Unique Klipsch horn technology
means speakers that more accurately direct sound. The
result is a more lifelike soundstage and way more “Whoa –
Did you hear that?”
•
FLAT FREQUENCY RESPONSE:
We believe in delivering
exactly the
sound artists intend. Hence, Klipsch’s stunningly
accurate speakers – with no unnatural highs, mids or lows.
Eli Lewis
I always hear that atmost sounds great if done with the actual mounted height channels. I'd say go for it.
Ryan Moore
Do it. Just buy some cheap speakers and give it a shot. An interesting thing I found out, the more channels you have the less important the quality needs to be. Literally the best way to compare speakers is mono. 1 vs 1 speaker.
Parker Morales
Thanks
Eli Allen
Dynaudios new woofer in the new Confidence line. I thought that they just would re-use the old-school drivers from the new Contour range.
Hunter Parker
Contour 50, second biggest speaker in the range, has all the bells and whistles and being $14k cheaper than the bigger Contour 60. Feels like a interesting speaker.
Josiah Howard
>changaudio
Luis Brooks
I would be very surprised if their high-end stuff were made in China.
China is great to produce shitty mainstream products for normies, but true enthusiasts want authenticity
Juan Diaz
I can't understand if i should go with active or passive speakers
Eli Perry
Active are in most ways superior
Sebastian Barnes
>Active are in most ways superior
t. hiss
Caleb Sanchez
It's good. Really good.
Brody Walker
Stop buying crappy chink shit then
Ethan Campbell
>the more channels you have the less important the quality needs to be
>the best way to compare speakers is mono
An underappreciated fact.
Active speakers need an audio signal cable and a power cable. Passives don't.
Active monitors are more likely to have basic trim controls and EQ for dealing with wall placement and boundary modes. You can equalize externally from the speaker.
Active speakers weigh more than similarly sized passive speakers.
Isaac Wilson
Passive. It gives you much more flexibility.
Liam Lewis
Active. It gives you much more flexibility.
Jaxson Perez
In all seriousness, passive gives you way more speaker options, you can swap amps and dacs, add a sub (which is a major plus) etc. The options are endless.
Ryan Flores
Do they even post their distortion graphs and figures?
Brody Rivera
Long live Mr. M.
Daniel Jones
which models do they make in China?
Asher Richardson
avhub.com.au
>Goertek also provided the finance to design a new range of custom install speakers that will carry the Dynaudio brand. However, unlike all other Dynaudio loudspeakers, the custom install drivers will be made in Goetek’s factory in China... but the drivers themselves were wholly designed in Denmark.
Some more details on the acquisition
acrosspartners.com
Brayden Clark
What a coincidence. I was commented to my mistress what quality sound Klipsch products produce. She is tickled to death about their imaging and impact. Pic related: Just took this one of her and I watching our favorite movie in my custome built home theatre.
Kayden Morris
sorry you can't afford those either, grampy
David Long
This is false of course.
Ayden Ward
you obviously own those
can you share a pic of those in your home set up
we all would love to see a patrician arrangement
John Thompson
Rune or Volumio ?
Jason Scott
garbage in, garbage out
John Lee
Agree.
Wyatt Butler
headfones best spekr plebs
Adrian Perez
hmm.... no
Josiah Brown
Passive for audiophile purists and tweakers
Active for best performance and value
Budget active speakers have compromises, but there are still good ones in there (adam t7v, mackie MR series, kali audio lp3) aside from just JBL 305 now, which implement the amps better with less self noise.
And when you start looking into high-end active vs high-end passive, it's no competition. Active designs have many more options to get the best performance out of drivers.
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gearslutz.com
Elijah Scott
active
>best performance
no
Carter Diaz
yes
Brody Thompson
lol, no
Samuel Jones
Horns don't usually increase distortion, though there are unique problems they can have regarding distortion. Horn timbre can generally be blamed on linear issues, and there are many to balance. Compression drivers may not win a linearity battle, but ribbons and domes get horn loaded all the time to increase their effective linear output.
The acoustic performance of that speaker is dated as far as performance goes.
A more impressive use of active crossovers and amplification is the Beolab 90. The most interesting speaker concept in a long time.
Connor Gomez
>Green Velvet
The absolute last act I expected to hear.
Nolan Jones
>dated
Yeah genelec aren't pulling new tricks with these, they're just enormous mains w/ GLM. I wouldn't say the performance is dated though, just conventional design for studio applications.
B&O is one of the rare consumer high end brands thats pushing the needle forward with regards to utilizing DSP and multiple drivers to control dispersion in home audio.
Adam Anderson
>Forte III costs $3498
You can get them for way less than that from a dealer who isn't a jew. I know of such a man. Same man I got my Parasound A52+ from saved over 500 off retail when everyone else quoted me maybe 100 off
Atmost works best when you have 4 ceiling speakers. Don't do just 2
>High efficiency means low distortion. According to Klipsch.
The more a cone moves the more it will distort this is science fact. This is why more efficiency is lower distortion
Bentley Wright
Dated in the sense that Genelec has newer less-large format speakers that have improved driver mating and smoother directivity compared to that older design.
The interesting idea with the Beolab is using the beam steering to make a speaker with a user-adjustable directivity. I'm not sure how far it goes past existing speakers if you only stick to a single preselect.
The Kii is also pretty neat, and the low cost of the drivers it uses makes it funnier.
Inductance related nonlinearity is one of the central causes of loudspeaker distortion, but that is covered in the efficiency deal.
Evan Rodriguez
What are some good headphones that are compact like pic related? I don't want the kind that go right into my ear, I want the type that sit loosely outside it like this.
Evan Butler
skullcandy or coby brand
Joseph Nelson
>skullcandy
Jayden Martinez
ProAc
Evan Johnson
>improved driver mating and smoother directivity compared to that older design.
The Ones are SPL limited though, for high SPL midfield/farfield applications genelec still recommends their big ol mains (and s360). I wonder what technical hurdles is stopping genelec from scaling the Ones past the 8351. I thought they were going to reveal BIG Ones in their last AES conference, instead it was their foray into compression tweeters (s360), competing with JBL 7p series I'm assuming.
>The interesting idea
It's the cool stuff I wish would trickle down to normie consumer tier sooner. I thought the apple home pod would have been a hit if they included simple AUX in, there's no frequency canceling DSP black magic but the auto room calibration is a nice feature.
And as demonstrated by Kii three, it's not expensive components (well, the HypeX amps are def nice), but clever implementation of DSP that's really taking the current crop of SOTA speakers to the next level.
Juan Robinson
unironically apple earpods/airpods or vemonk plus/sennheiser mx500
Luke Foster
Do you need options or do you need sound? That is the main question then.
Logan Turner
>Inductance related nonlinearity
wat
Hudson Adams
>foray into compression tweeters
*for small format
Jaxson Evans
I was thinking of the 1237/1238 as slightly less large.
>I wonder what technical hurdles is stopping genelec from scaling the Ones
Bigger than the 8260/replacement?
The tweeter is one. You'll notice it's 3/4 inch, smaller than your average dome tweeter. Small tweeters usually have low directivity in the top octave but have shitty power handling. Or maybe it was easier to stick a smaller tweeter into the cone.
The main interest in a coincident mid-tweeter is in the near to midfield range. The vertical interference pattern is not so severe sitting far away, and a larger room would hopefully have more room for a larger speaker.
>competing with JBL 7p series I'm assuming
As it stands, it seems more of a preemptive move. The 7p series so far isn't placing its focus on being compact high-output speakers. The compression driver is there because it is fairly well-behaved in the treble, and the woofers extend too deep to focus on efficiency. That might change if JBL gets around to replacing the old 12" 6332.
>Kii
Seas DXT tweeter ~ 75 USD per unit
Peerless FSL-05 fullrange ~ 25 dollars
4x Peerless SBS-160F35AL woofers ~ 80 dollars
For whatever reason, Peerless pulled those parts from the market. That fullrange was nice; I wanted to use it for my own project.
Pic related
William Edwards
what are speakers I should get for Desktop use for music and movies? I was thinking of getting JBL 305Pmkii but people say that they'll be flat and unimpressive since they're studio monitors. Should I just get Swan1010s instead or something? Also what receiver/ should I get?
Matthew Parker
I'm wanting to get Into vinyl. Thinking of subscribing to a monthly mail box for vinyls. Can anyone recommend a good quality vinyl and casset player and setup? Not a huge audiophile obviously. Just want entry level stuff that's affordable and not going to break in 5 years. Any suggestions?
Bentley Ward
>Bigger than the 8260/replacement?
Yeah, genelec's original goal with the Ones was just make a compact version of the 8260, but in doing so, they created a novel point source design with even more uniform horizontal and vertical directivity to the 8260s, but at the cost of limited mid-bass SPL due to concealed woofers. Reading in on the hype, it seems the trade off in SPL is worth it for increased uniform directivity. And that directivity might be the prevailing metric/measurement when it comes to audio "quality" i.e what you actually hear.
But I've read conflicting opinions on directivity, some people say a narrow vertical directivity is preferred as to avoid ceiling/floor reflections, and the important thing is wide horizontal directivity.
>The 7p series so far isn't placing its focus on being compact high-output speakers.
I'm not sure exactly what market segment JBL is aiming for if not that
youtube.com
Based off recent measurements from sound&recording (705p) they're in a strange place. They put a lot of R&D into that compression driver but fucked up the port/cabinet somehow. Theres parametric EQ dsp but no included room calibration software like in older JBL studio monitors (LSR 4326p). And for the premium studio monitor pricing, it's manufactured in mexico.
I mean comparing to the competition I can't see any reason why one would choose JBL for those prices. It's not offering more value, performance or higher build quality. Hell even the lsr 305s don't have that weird port resonance shit going on @ 750 hz, what the hell is that for a $1000 monitor?
>For whatever reason, Peerless pulled those parts from the market.
Wonder if Kii had a hand.
Brayden Johnson
Kali Audio LP-6. True spiritual successor to the LSR 305, made by the guy that designed the LSR 305. Coming off like a hard shill but they seem to be THE budget monitors to get going by specs.
6.5" woofer
front ported
nice waveguide (from the lead designer of the JBL M2)
tons of EQ controls
$300 a pair
You can check around, Mackie MR 624s are $400 a pair, Adam T7Vs are $500 a pair and >JBL 305Pmkii are $300 a pair. For these you're getting a 6.5" woofer for 5" woofer prices. From a start up with something to prove. /shill
As for
>that they'll be flat and unimpressive since they're studio monitors
Is the oldest audiophile salesman BS to gatekeep transparent audio from the masses. They want you to get caught up in the audiophile "game" of leveling up your cables and boutique amps/dacs to attain audio nirvana. Nothing brings in a higher profit margin than keeping the consumer in the dark about the things that actually matter and instead turn it into some glorified country club circlejerk for mid-life crisis boomers.
Okay, dramatizing a bit, they're not all that nefarious. But there are these types of salesman that prey on audiophile neurosis like true shameless scum. I honestly wonder if it's a front for money laundering. How can you run this kind of store and look at the mirror in the morning? Fucking joke.
thecableco.com
Bentley Ortiz
>nice waveguide (from the lead designer of the JBL M2)
i bet he would have used m2 waveguide like on lsr if it was not a jbl patent
lsr series biggest advantage is their patented waveguide
but lp6 looks good too, I hope we will see their measurements (especially polar map) soon
Justin Hill
what are the best speaker to listen to EDM with?
speaking about 500-800€ range
Carter James
Just buy some $5 speakers.
Buy equipment based on the quality of music you play.
Samuel Nelson
but i hardly believe these will do any base.
thinking about getting harman kardon soundsticks with sub
Sebastian King
I'm just shitposting with you.
Get some Mackie 4 or 305 then get a decently cheap sub in the 10 inch range or similar so you don't drown the monitors in wub wub.
Charles Kelly
so what cone material do you prefer for edm or synth stuff?
it appears aluminum has the fastest transient response times but papercone probably hits harder because higher velocity which gets handy for strings
what do you think?
Nolan King
are you retarded
Christian Foster
>some people say a narrow vertical directivity is preferred as to avoid ceiling/floor reflections, and the important thing is wide horizontal directivity.
Educating myself on that matter, found this snippet by neumann.
neumann-kh-line.com
>Moving onto the sound in the room, even if the listener is positioned on-axis, the total sound at the listening position is the sum of the direct on-axis sound plus the reflected off-axis sound.
So uniform vertical/horizontal directivity/dispersion is highly sought after right? Because the reflected off-axis sound is more 'even', resulting in a more transparent 'total sound' at the listening position.
Ryan Long
Justin Kelly
>paper vs aluminium
Beyond my knowledge when it comes to drivers.
In my ignorance I'd assume paper sounds warmer but response is down to the driver magnet and impedance/mV response whatever it's called.
I like the sound of my speakers shown in the image above for classic and 80s-90s weaboo music.
The Sailor Moon in lossless FLAC is some good shit with clearer sound than expected.
unrelated but currently listening to Guitar Sound.
Link to the song, although don't expect Youtube compression to woo you.
youtube.com
Aaron Taylor
>original monster
>modern, thinner speakers
boomer speakers would be the much larger vintage speakers like cerwin vega, klipsch, and JBL
Andrew Cruz
I have reservations about floyd toole's methodology/angle of inquiry when it comes to putting objective ratings to subjective impressions. He goes against ITU/EBU standards and is sort of the maverick in this regard. Is everyone else wrong or is toole right?
audiosciencereview.com
>That said, I assume for business reasons, Genelec followed the guidance of ITU and EBU standards requiring flat steady state in-room curves, and they provide means to achieve it. This is demonstrably wrong, but Europeans have a commitment to "standards" that is substantially missing in our culture. Many broadcasters and recording studios were misguided by these standards. See Section 13.2.2 "The wrong room curve" in my new book. Summary: they require a flat on-axis anechoic response, and then, after installation, a flat in-room steady-state curve. One cannot have both, except in an anechoic room!
Thomas Garcia
I hate Cerwin Vega because I like to actually have detail in the sound.
The can was something I had put there just to scale.
Don't really drink the stuff that often.
>white monster
Tried it, it was horrible.
Cooper Powell
I've never liked the way cerwin vegas looked. Are they really that good sounding? Uncle has a nice pair of them I haven't got the chance to listen to.
>Tried it, it was horrible.
it tastes much better than original to be honest
Jason Martinez
>Are they really that bad sounding?
They are.
They are cheap for a reason, though they might "good" for frat parties since everybody is too drunk to hear things.
But not as cheap as my $0 DALI Concept 2 pair.
>it tastes much better than original to be honest
None are really that good but the white one tasted like something similar to cleaning solvent.
Jackson Roberts
>They are.
Well that's unfortunate.
>They are cheap for a reason, though they might "good" for frat parties since everybody is too drunk to hear things.
Makes sense, I've always viewed them as that type of speaker.
Ryder Reed
Allow me to be a real sperg about it for second.
Dis floyd toole nigga come at genelec with this shit but all he did was wrote some books, when dis du ever make SOTA speakers or design a fuckin room? If dis nigga's theory shit so revolutionary then why ain't it being applied at the pro level? It's always coming back to some harman industry shit that's he's trying to make the "new standard".
oh nonono everyone else got it wrong, you don't want absorption at the first reflection points!
Julian King
>Makes sense, I've always viewed them as that type of speaker.
Glad I'm not the only one.
Nathan Sullivan
>Atmost works best when you have 4 ceiling speakers. Don't do just 2
I plan on doing 4x heights. My problem speaker are the rears, because I can't put them to my side on ear level I have to mount them up high with the Atmos speakers unfortunately. The surround backs I can do ear level.
Jonathan Garcia
Fun fact, I had a actual nightmare last night of buying expensive Dali-speakers and Lyngdorf amplifier.
No I don't, but I think that they are a perfect example of a good active speaker.
>Posting shitty bookself speakers with even shitterier ribbons and thinks that he knows something
Like you can't add a sub to active speakers? lolwut
Stop lying to yourself
What's wrong with liking JBL and drinking Monster?
Pic is one of the absolute best speaker I've ever heard. And I've heard them twice under different conditions and they've always sounded great.
Wyatt Baker
If you live in USA you're paying almost twice as much as we do here for DALI speakers.
Not our fault you pay that much.
The fun fact is when people compare them to speakers in that over-priced class when they should compare them against speakers in the same class.
>What's wrong with liking JBL and drinking Monster?
>posts Genelec.
Josiah Cox
Are Devialet's good? Seems like a very unique design.
Sebastian Fisher
I remember bandwidth and spl claims are staggering for such small thing.
Listening to rear loaded fe103s myself.
Henry Edwards
I live in Sweden, and I dreamt that I bought a pair of Epicon 6.
I like both JBL and Genelec, deal with it.
Carson Morris
I had some Sunfire True Subs years back and they had a lot of output for subs in a very small enclosure (great for WAF), but I fell off the them because the use a massive amp to beat sound out of an enclosure tends to not be a lasting product. Eventually both of them failed. I barely got them fixed under warranty but decided at that point to sell them because I knew it would only be a matter of time before I had to pay for the repair bill.
I think also in my old age (33 year old boomer here), I don't really care as much about maximum spl.
David Fisher
>I like both JBL and Genelec, deal with it.
I am. Both are good.
Epi6 i ruby macassarfärg är jävligt snyggt, men i en prisklass jag inte vill klättra upp till.
Mina billiga Zensor (1,5,7,vokal, Sub E12F (7.1)) är bra nog för mig och kostade bara 24k utan kablar och receiver.
Hunter Carter
>4500 watts of peak power per Phantom with 20 Hz to 20 kHz ±2 dB frequency response and a -6 dB bandwidth of 14 Hz to 27 kHz. 108 dB SPL at 1 meter maximum output.
The fuck how?
Oliver Perez
dsp bending the shit out of a handful of high excursion drivers
Noah Wright
Yeah. They are very pretty, that's for sure. But it's not a speaker that I want to own, I have not trust or respect for Dali. The nightmare was about me having a hard time saying no to the extremely pushy sellers at my local HiFi-klubben.
Aiden Clark
Devialet are one of the absolute top brands out there. The only reason why I wouldn't buy their amplifiers is that I dislike the design. Maybe if I had some "flashier" speakers.
Thomas Clark
Reminds me of the old Bose 901 (or 802 for pros) equalizer. Looking at that curve still makes me laugh, you cannot replicate it with a 24dB 1/3 octave eq.
Connor Gomez
You have no trust for DALI because of some non-DALI retailer being pushy?
Eli Morris
New here. Is there no guide or recommendation on first post anynore or has it always been this way?
While I'm on it, any reasonably priced high resolution audio player that is suitable for runs + good battery life?
Ryan Robinson
Also, is rockbox still relevant?
Josiah Barnes
what the fuck
am i looking at the right graph?
Jack Gonzalez
>dsp bending the shit out of a handful of high excursion drivers
Are there downsides to doing that? I know DSP is generally good when done well, but, what happens when you get really extreme with it?
You have that kind of money? What's your system like?
Josiah Ortiz
No, I'm not that stupid :P. I don't fully agree with their designs and claims of "fast" loudspeakers. I've never heard them sounding good either, but it was quite a while since I last heard a pair.
Charles Perry
I think so.
And still! there are people asking: can I use them without the eq?
Parker Thomas
JBL 4367 with bridged Benchmark AHB2 amps and a Benchmark DAC3L as DAC/pre-amp.
Charles Reed
It's always been this way. Recommending speakers and other related gear depends so much on room size and application it makes guides kind of irrelevant.
I'm not up to date on the latest high res audio players but I use a Sansa Clip+ running Rockbox. Sansa Clip+ are no longer made now though and people are selling the ones remaining for stupidly high money. You might want to check headphone general if no one else chimes in with a recommendation.
Gabriel Bell
A lot of money for low power. I'm sure it's nice hardware but sucks to spend that much because you might get some difficult to drive speakers in the future and then you'd need a different amp.
Luke Hughes
>what happens when you get really extreme with it?
distortion
that's why the peak spl at 1m probably 1-3%thd is only 108dB even though there's a shitload of amplification power in there
when pushing the drivers in a small enclosure to do things they had an easier job doing in a bigger enclosure you push them closer to the distortion limit at a lower spl, so your output and/or listening distance is limited, that's the main tradeoff
Jace Reyes
mirror universe klipsch
Michael Price
>A lot of money for low power
400watts on 94dB/spl is enough, trust me.
Ryan Ross
basically, yes