FBI - All persons using TOR are added to suspicious persons list

Because if you don't connect to tor via a bridge or VPN then your ISP knows you're using tor, and if your ISP knows you're using Tor, then so does the FBI/NSA.

use bridges, problem solved

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but doesn't using VPNs on tor compromise you anyways because of exit nodes?

no. your vpn cannot see your traffic, same as your ip cannot see your traffic. the vpn only knows you're using tor.

ITT: FUD and fake news.

If the VPN company is compromised, there's no reason to believe the VPN softwere isn't.

But then how will I watch collections of little girls with too much time and too little/neglectiful parents using webcams to produce illicit content of their own volition in peace?

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That's an oddly specific string of text. Something you want to tell the class?

>government invents tor to help individuals fight back against tryanical governments
>tryanical government investigates anyone who uses tor

Pretty sure I have been on that list since I was 13.

vpns use openvpn now, which is open source. it's not compromised.

How do you check that their binaries are the same as the open source and aren't compromised?

I trust EFF and they say OpenVPN is safe

I mean the binaries that the VPN company gives you.

Yeah, i like it when 15 year olds show off their whohaw on cam sometimes but I don’t want to get v& for it

OVPN profile files are usually just login keys to the VPN, no?

I have no idea.
I'm just asking because I often see screenshots and videos of people using VPNs and they all have a different interface, so it's either customized versions of OpenVPN, or something else entirely.

My hamster is always using tor, at one point he had a box in between the modem and router, which he made into a switch making everything here use tor.

we didn't think much of it then, but we got more vary and then you had to authenticate your self all the time. turns out he was really into hamster drugs and hamster prostitution. the police where here, but they couldn't get anything on him. I just heard he flushed a lot of shit in the toilet before they came and he yelled at me to not let them in
>we didn't know
we just didn't know

Person is the singular of Persons, but People doesn't have a singular form since it always refers to multiple entities.

For most English uncountable words (i.e. mass nouns) we have different rules as to the adjectives and adverbs we can use to describe them. In general you can say you have "many plates of rice" but you can't say "you have one rice", unless "one rice" is an abbreviation of something like "rice dish" (e.g. I want to order one rice dish).

Semantically they generally take the same value so the form you use often depends on prose or prosody. There's no significant semantic difference between saying "four people" or "four persons" so your word choice in such instances doesn't matter. But "People" is a mass noun so it's always wrong to say "I saw one people" when you mean to say "I saw one person".

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>maybe
All that shit is fact, faggot. Tor has been an NSA project before it was called Tor. FBI hosts half the CP bullshit, and they admit it.
Anyone that uses any encryption goes on a list. NSA brags about how they keep a copy of all encrypted traffic indefinitely, that means all HTTPS traffic. They keep a 72hour copy of the entire internet.

you're seeing vpn providers custom clients. the protocol is openvpn, though. it's mainly a branding thing. anyone can download openvpn, pay for a vpn service, and load it up on the openvpn client.

>he fell for the nsa meme
they store a lot of data, but not every encrypted piece of traffic. it's not feasable and would be a massive waste of money.

But do people do that?
I bet a huge part of them don't, so they run the possibly compromised custom client and get their traffic monitored.

>But do people do that?
the people that are using tor and know how to protect themselves do. the chances of their custom clients being compromised from a trusted provider are already slim to known, so its not much of an argument. you are needlessly paranoid

I was being cheeky with my 3letter maybes. It is a hot take they hold an archive of all the everything (even though I know their archive is fucking wild).

I don't doubt the powersthatbe own tor. What are some viable alternatives to tor, or is VPN + TOR good enough? I hear i2p and bitmessage brought up but I'm unfamiliar.

Too bad Wireguard is unquestionably the future.

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>the people that are using tor and know how to protect themselves do
I'm sure I don't need to remind you of all the pedos that get caught thinking that by simply using Tor they were totally immune to LEAs.
Just because someone uses it doesn't mean they know what they're doing. It just means that they happen to know about Tor and that they want something accessible through it (pizza, drugs, etc).

>the chances of their custom clients being compromised from a trusted provider are already slim to none
And who says that?
Also, who's a trusted provider? The VPN company can't be trusted because there's an incentive for law enforcement to compromise them, so you can never know.

>you are needlessly paranoid
I could say that you're being too careless and are somehow sure that things are safe for no reason.

>puts on kevlar vest
>shoots self in head
Unless you're literally this retarded

>it's not feasable and would be a massive waste of money.
lol, have you seen DoD's budget?

More like putting a kevlar vest and thinking they're immune to bullets, but yes, people are retarded, how is this news for you?
Like people washing their hands, touching filthy stuff like the floor, then eating thinking they're safe because they've washed their hands 1 minute earlier.
As long as you're careful with what you're doing, and not trusting any software than can be compromised, you'll be fine.
But most people don't do that, so thay just think "I've used Tor and a VPN, so there's no way they can catch me" and get caught.

>not trusting any software than can be compromised
Actually, everything is compromised. All the time. Right meow. And it doesn't matter. You don't need purity; you need a modicum of sufficient security, and that's easily attainable with moderately high INT using the services available out there youtu.be/IRCgTJkfNjQ

>pedos that get caught thinking that by simply using Tor they were totally immune to LEAs.
the majority of busts are simple social engineering. IE, trying a meet a child IRL, sharing personal info, etc. no amount of OPSEC is going to protect them from that, so vpn/tor is irrelevant in this case.

>Just because someone uses it doesn't mean they know what they're doing
i said the people that use tor and know what they're doing, not people using tor and do not what they're doing

>And who says that?
audits, security experts, individuals that routinely check for such things

>Also, who's a trusted provider?
there are many lists of recommended vpn providers out there

>The VPN company can't be trusted
a vpn companies reputation and success is based on customer trust. break that and they go out of business. most companies do not want that.

>I could say that you're being too careless
i've been using vpn + connected to tor for 10 years. your argument boils down to 'how can you trust anything?'. no, you cant fully trust a tor bridge, a tor exit node, a vpn, tor browser, the sites you visit, or anything. there are always risks. if you're too afraid to take a minimal risk then you do not belong on the dark web.

persons is legalese, it means that's a potential subject of trial, due to crimes as antisemitism.

Decennial reminder that the talpa knows only an IP and Bitcoin addy.
Anything more is just troublesome.

>the majority of busts are simple social engineering. IE, trying a meet a child IRL, sharing personal info, etc. no amount of OPSEC is going to protect them from that, so vpn/tor is irrelevant in this case.
I'm talking about the pizza websites that get periodically busted.
I read of a semi-recent one (2017-2018) where they compromised the site, ran it for a while, and managed to catch many thousands (IIRC in the hundreds of thousands).

>i said the people that use tor and know what they're doing, not people using tor and do not what they're doing
Then we're arguing about nothing because obviously competent people won't have such problems.
I'm just talking about trusting a VPN can be a mistake, since the fact that they don't see the traffic isn't true in some cases.

>audits, security experts, individuals that routinely check for such things
Any source then?

>there are many lists of recommended vpn providers out there
You're trusting that the person who does the recommendation would know about a VPN company being compromised.

>a vpn companies reputation and success is based on customer trust. break that and they go out of business. most companies do not want that.
Not if they're forced by law enforcement.

>i've been using vpn + connected to tor for 10 years.
Your personal experience is meaningless.
You could've used a non-compromised one, or used it for things that they're not interested in, or any other scenario.
Still doesn't mean that it's impossible to get caught.

>your argument boils down to 'how can you trust anything?'. [...] if you're too afraid to take a minimal risk then you do not belong on the dark web.
OR, maybe you could just acknowledge the risk and mitigate it?
In this case you could just use an open source VPN with a virtual machine setup that prevents the VPN software from running on the same system as the Tor browser.
Obviously there will always be some risk, but you shuld always reduce it to the minimum instead of relying on trust.

pretty sad if you really believe that. A big american enterprise literally owns your beloved '"openvpn'" you gullible goy.

>the talpa
Quick rundown?

>BUY MY WATER FILTERS YOU GULLIBLE GOY
He made a shitload of money selling them the last couple weeks. Austin's water was contaminated lol.

italian for mole

E cosa sarebbe questa talpa?
I servizi segreti?

>I'm talking about the pizza websites that get periodically busted.
hosting a tor service is a completely different ball game and requires far more precaution and security.

>ran it for a while, and managed to catch many thousands
yes they relied on a vulnerability in noscript in which it did not actually block js. you had to disable js in about:config. so every normie that simply downloaded tor browser and relied on noscript to do all the work got fucked. if they had connected through a vpn or tails, then they would've been safe.

>I'm just talking about trusting a VPN can be a mistake
its just a fallback. the main purpose is to prevent your isp from seeing you use tor, and if you're lucky, they'll protect you if somehow get de-anonymized while using tor.

>Any source then?
i really dont feel like looking it up

>You're trusting that the person who does the recommendation would know about a VPN company being compromised.
its not really a random blogger or person buy a security company

>Not if they're forced by law enforcement.
no vpn service is forced to keep logs. they may be forced to give up any info they have on a user, but if that info doesnt exist, then there is nothing law enforcement can do. again, it is just an extra layer.

>Your personal experience is meaningless.
it's relevant in that if I were as careless as you supposedly claimed then I would have been busted a long time ago therefore my personal experience has merit, which is better than your baseless fear mongering.

>OR, maybe you could just acknowledge the risk and mitigate it?
using a vpn is mitigating it.

>virtual machine setup
there are ways that the host can be exploited through a vm, so that is not ideal. qubes + whonix + vpn/tor on bare metal is the best setup.

why would you use TOR if you weren't a suspicious person?

Because fucking everyone is suspicious in a benign fashion

Is Richard Stallman a suspicious person?

If you have Tor on your computer and you get caught, the prosecutors will run to the media and say you have software used to buy drugs illegally

>hosting a tor service is a completely different ball game and requires far more precaution and security.
I'm not talking about the owners being caught, but the users.

>yes they relied on a vulnerability in noscript in which it did not actually block js. you had to disable js in about:config. so every normie that simply downloaded tor browser and relied on noscript to do all the work got fucked.
Exactly what I meant.
They trusted NoScript because they thought it was secure when it wasn't, just like you're advocating for trusting a VPN when you can't know if it's secure or not.

>if they had connected through a vpn or tails, then they would've been safe.
Assuming the VPN is not compromised, of course.
Because if it was, they would've been caught regardless of the js exploit.

>the main purpose is to prevent your isp from seeing you use tor, and if you're lucky, they'll protect you if somehow get de-anonymized while using tor.
Same as above.

>its not really a random blogger or person buy a security company
How would even the best security company know about a VPN company being secretly forced to collaborate with law enforcement?

>no vpn service is forced to keep logs. they may be forced to give up any info they have on a user, but if that info doesnt exist, then there is nothing law enforcement can do. again, it is just an extra layer.
How do you know this?
How do you know there isn't some Prism-like deal going on?

1/2

I also can buy drugs illegally with Google Chrome
is it categorized as software used to buy drugs illegally?

>it's relevant in that if I were as careless as you supposedly claimed then I would have been busted a long time ago therefore my personal experience has merit
You're just one person. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't represent how things are.

>which is better than your baseless fear mongering
All the leaks have demonstrated that you can't trust anything ad that the people who acted with the assumption that everything was compromised, are the only ones who managed to avoid being monitored.
If you don't have an undeniable guarantee that something isn't compromised, then you're better off doing what's possible to reduce the risk in case it is.
Better safe than sorry.

>using a vpn is mitigating it.
Using a VPN is mitigating the risk of the VPN being compromised?

>there are ways that the host can be exploited through a vm, so that is not ideal. qubes + whonix + vpn/tor on bare metal is the best setup.
There are many ways of doing it with varying degrees of effectiveness and practicality.
I just named an easy one that anyone can do, and that would almost totally reduce the risk unless you were specifically being targeted and monitored.

Based retard poster

>secretly forced to collaborate with law enforcement
You grossly overestimate the power of law enforcement and the bogeyman gov't in general.

I'd rather overestimate them and be safe than underestimate them and be sorry.
Remember Prism?
People saying that Silicon Valley companies were collabirating with the NSA were laughed at by people like you saying "that's impossible", or "it would cost way too much", etc.

I don't think it's that unrealistic that law enforcement would bug the VPN client to compromise the encryption used in Tor, so that they could then monitor the VPN's traffic and see what's going on.
Or even just use it to see which pages are being opened by the user's browsers. and have a list of people connecting to questionable sites.
It's in their interests to do so and we know that they want to have this kind of information.

OP here. Dude, I can almost gaurentee the government can watch and hear anything anyone does. That’s part of having all the phone stuff in all the countries etc. Just acknowledge they are there and don’t do anything illegal. Tor was really a wdnderful tool and it sucks drugged out ideologues and Fogle ruined it for anyone who legitimately wanted to remain anonymous

Exactly the reason i actually use Tor.
Worst thing i do on my computer is browse Jow Forums and i still use Tor browser from time to time,just to help it keep its impression of legitimacy.

>Remember Prism?
No.

>Tor was really a wdnderful tool and it sucks drugged out ideologues and Fogle ruined it for anyone who legitimately wanted to remain anonymous
It still works just as intended.

You should actually be thankful of druggies & pedophiles. They are the "testers" that ensure tor works as intended, a necessary evil.

If criminals don't use it, then it doesn't work.

Don't connect to sites that smuggle people or drugs then.
"Big ol' gov't" guys don't give a damn about you, or your stupid preferences, they've got a code of laws they must carry out.
It's always this typical US right-libertarian brand of paranoia when it comes to "the feds".

Securely using the internet is not possible. The Five Eyes, China, and Russia pwn every piece of hardware and control the backbones.

That is only a problem if you NEED the internet for something, and you can not need internet security if you never use it for secure comms and never connect an important machine or network to the internet.

TOR doesn't affect me because I don't need to use a honeypot. If Uncle Sugar wants anything from me they can ask and I'll do it (for pay and per diem, just like the rest of my Federal bros get!).

they only pwn modern hardware and the backbone becomes neutralized if you use software like tor.

Because I compile it myself faggot

it's all compromised so run your own botnet of vpn hops or risk jail.

For hidden services i2p is probably a lot better than Tor but it hasn't been academically studied like Tor has and is technically still in alpha. It's also written in Java which is a common criticism, but there is a fork of the project written in C.

youtu.be/KCSeoej1GiI

based and terrypilled

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This sub is for technology not sematics you dumb namefag.

Thanks!

Everyone should use tor.

>He fell for the DoD budget meme
The internet is expanding everyday, they have barely any power

I don't know, why do you care about privacy if you have nothing to hide? Why would you care about gun rights if you hate guns? Why would you care about Freedom of Speech if you have nothing to say?
See how stupid you look now?

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Same goes for using $CHAN's?

Tor doesn't protect you form governments.
In an ideal world, it would be used by noncriminals for normienet browsing without corporate analytics and spying.
However, kikeflare and joogle and the rest of the web can't have that, so they go full SHUT IT DOWN on tor traffic.
This leaves its major users criminals, and ironically more vulnerable to glow in the dark intelligence agencies than it would be if it was only used by mormies for normie purposes.

If you can, with a straight face, look at him and say no then I'll be impressed.

Stallman can't be a suspicious person because suspicion implies the possibility of him not doing something bad.

It’s a dumb argument NPCs make. Don’t waste your time on them.

If your hamster would've been smart he'd simply crammed everything he didn't want them to find into his cheecks and just kept his mouth shut.

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It not theorized, Tor was literally designed by the US Navy.

GCHQ and NSA run a ton of entry/exit nodes as well. You can look up the "Tor Stinks" leak from Snowden to see how they are able to identify users. Compromises are generally because of poor security or outright dumb actions by people.

Dark markets are dead. 90% are scams or honeypots