Been a software developer for about 10 years now and I still feel like I know nothing. I've worked with numerous languages and frameworks and yet it feels like I know so little.
Am I the only one who still feels stupid after such a long time of being a software developer?
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>dev for 10 years
>didn't go into management other programmers
>didn't go as software architecture
never gonna make it
I've been programming for more than 30 years. I always feel like there's a ton that I don't know.
'The more you know, the more you know you don't know.'
[3527 points] IMPOSTER SYNDROME!!!
>30 years
wtf
You actually need to work on improving to improve. Learning more or less equivalent blubs or Rails clone doesn't has highly diminishing returns. So does doing CRUD. Learn different languages: become an expert at SQL, write a compiler in Prolog, flex your category muscles with Haskell, boot to Tetris on a Raspberry Pi, etc. At the same time, learn things that aren't directly related to programming but help improve your thinking.
At least OP has better grammar.
heh since 1982
s/doesn't has/has/. I am a hypocrite, lol.
Most people in the industry don't have a fucking clue what they're doing. There's an impossible amount of stuff to learn out there so don't beat yourself up over it.
don't you get tired?
by now you should have lots of $$$.
get a new hobby
bu if you love what you do, keep going
>IMPOSTER SYNDROME
I just googled it and this is literally me.
That's what I usually do but I often find people on Youtube, Stackoverflow or whatever who seem to know so much in such a detail that it's actually intimidating. It literally makes me feel stupid.
you are smart user
You're at least in your mid-40s, user. How can you tolerate Jow Forums? I'm 30 and I barely manage. If it weren't for my weeb interests I am not sure I'd even come here any more.
>but I often find people on Youtube, Stackoverflow or whatever who seem to know so much in such a detail that it's actually intimidating
They either specialise in one particular area, so they know the answer to that specific question, or they've been at it for at least twice as long as you have.
Are you rich? How can you not be
How is it possible to know nothing after 10 fucking years? Sounds like youre being hard on yourself and underestimating all the things you've learned in the past decade
>there are better hobbies than voidsmithing praxis from streams of chars and autism
I don't know what you think you're doing on this board.
I have this feeling a lot too, I couldn't just start writing something right now without an actual plan. However, once I have a task and motivation, I don't really have any problems. I looked something up twice during a project on which I worked for 3 days, that felt pretty good, that was last week. This week I've just been doing some small refactoring and maintenance, nothing that makes me feel like I've accomplished anything. That's pretty depressing tbqh and probably why I am spending so much time on Jow Forums.
>How is it possible to know nothing after 10 fucking years?
Well it doesn't feel like I know nothing but it feels like I know little. Quite often whenever I code, I don't really know what the fuck I'm doing.. In the end it's working but it feels like I've done it the "wrong way" and if "experienced devs" actually saw what I did they would go apeshit.
>everyone must be autistic like me
dude stop
you're watching too much lain
Iterate. Once it's working properly, go over your code and look for ways to make it simpler and more readable. One of the biggest problems in software is that there isn't really a 'right' way to do anything, so everyone just wings it.
Do you work with other programmers, or do you do everything by yourself?
My problem is I no long enjoy the grind of writing code. I'm too compassionate to be a manager. Architecture seems fun but again I don't feel like putting in the energy.
When I was young I got a high off of completing technical tasks and writing little programs that did something. But now I want to start a family and enjoy life, and coding just seems like a tedious chore, especially when most companies are clusterfucks of man children like at the Diablo event. I no longer want to be surrounded by these people. I have matured too much as a person.
>I'm 30 and I barely manage
Why?
Working as a programer for 10 years is not enough to pass white board interviews. Think about that.
You just feel like you know nothing. You code and code, but the stack is just so high that you feel like you'll never know enough. Whatever you do, your code just won't be optimized fully. .
I've heard from experienced programmers whom I've told things along the lines of OP's post that they merely feel like they've climbed really high on stilts. It's been a difficult way up, and staying balanced is a constant struggle, always under threat to fall right back down.
Because that's what it's felt like to me so far. Some things are foundational and crystallize better over time, but in terms of feeling some sense of ultraconfidence or like you've saturated the field, I have to conclude that it's unrealistic. It's difficult stuff, and we're only apes.
Also, I've seen really experienced devs (and here I'm talking about famous ones) code in the same room, and the amount of silly mistakes they make, just like me, convinces me that the shit I'm insecure about is omnipresent human failing that nobody ever escapes...
or maybe they DO. But, man, if those guys haven't, that must be impressive. :3
I don't even watch it because it's too weird and anime is difficult as it is, but that doesn't change the salience of my retort. >:C
you couldn't be more wrong.
By myself. I've been self employed ever since I finished high school. Only time I worked with other programmers was when I was still going to school, working as a Flash/Actionscript dev on the side. That was a long time ago.
White board interviews are data structure and algorithm theory. It's something that most programmers don't need to do on a regular basis, and they sure as fuck don't do it under pressure without researching the problem first.
are you married?
Not interested
>your code just won't be optimized fully
That isn't necessarily the goal, dude. Pragmatism is good.
That's why master devs unironically turn to Python.
No, only a girlfriend but we're not married.
that's alright.
marriages are just a ring and lower taxes.
Was, but I lost it all in the divorce.
Well, it's always a possibility that you're actually stupid. It is also true some people really are 10x -- look at someone like Alan Kay. What is more likely to be your case, though, is that you're not particularly stupid, but you're doing something stupid. You are comparing yourself to a series of experts in their areas of expertise. Because you constantly see a mass of them on the Internet and only see their strong sides, it distorts your expectations. It becomes as though everyone is amazing at everything. This is not the case.
First, the average programmer is very unimpressive and is not even self-aware enough to be concerned about his skill like you are. Second, the people you see all specialize in something. The key is to not let them merge in your mind into one mythical megaprogrammer who is amazing at everything. In reality each of them knows something different. If you tried to compete with all of them at the same time in their areas of discipline, it would be a lot like trying to compete with world-famous painters in painting, chess masters in chess, professional musicians in music, etc. Admirably ambitious, but there is simply not enough lifespan for that.
What you can do is choose a few areas, like three at maximum, and become really good at them. This is how you can join their ranks. It is, not coincidentally, also how you can become a highly-paid consultant, so if you play your cards right the rewards won't just be in self-esteem.
Too many inane comments and uninformed second-hand opinions.
How is that different to anywhere else on the internet?
i'm gonna pretend this post is a joke so i can sleep tonight.
Yeah, me too. If push comes to shove, are you able to write good clean modular re-usable code (eg: like the "experienced" devs do)?
>I'm too compassionate
Seriously? Take the Dark Triad test and post your scores.
openpsychometrics.org
it's either that or too smart autists with forum moderator power tripping
Jow Forums has always been the least worst place on the internet
Based.
Self-esteem is silly anyway. Look up at the stars and realize that simultaneity is not conserved by general relativity which means that everything is bubblegum dog sauce and then you die.
Yep. It's clear that Jow Forums is full of racist, sexist teenagers on the verge of suicide and interested in various aspects of technology or not for some reason. That creates strong fundamental friction with smarter, saner people here.
But it's also part of the smarmy charm of this place. Reddit's also full of smol children, but they can't be as vitriolic and expressive as people are on here.
It's particularly worse.
>Too many inane comments
Soo... you don't like the 30yo boomer meme
I bet those dollars going into your bank account arent imposters though
>Self-esteem is silly anyway.
en.wikipedia.org
>For example, a detector with the mass of Jupiter and 100% efficiency, placed in close orbit around a neutron star, would only be expected to observe one graviton every 10 years, even under the most favorable conditions. It would be impossible to discriminate these events from the background of neutrinos, since the dimensions of the required neutrino shield would ensure collapse into a black hole.
Even a type 3 civ couldn't confidently detect gravitons.
Pic related is what the Universe does with self-esteem.
Based post. I'll try to take your advice to heart.
If push comes to shove, are you able to write good clean modular re-usable code (eg: like the "experienced" devs do)?
I think so.
>I bet those dollars going into your bank account arent imposters though
Being completely honest I earn above average (looking at friends who are employed) and it really feels kind of like cheating.
Same here OP. Honestly the continuous learning just takes a long time. And also hours per week at least will improve your chances of becoming even better at something.
>be QA for 7 years
>want to advance my career into dev work
>feel insecure because of my lack of knowledge despite being heavily proficient in automation
>have been looked down upon in past for being a QA
I can do it I know it but I make over 110k in my current position. I feel self conscious because I have a non CS degree is there hope?
You make 110k? If you aren't in California or New York you're doing pretty fucking good for being in QA and having a non CS degree.
I'm in Cali
I honestly hated development and went into QA. It's comfier imo, but I would definitely try out development to see if you like it
Tell me about your experience working qa what type of tools to you use?
I feel like qa work is never talked about on Jow Forums
how are the wrists doing?
a really good friend of mine started out doing qa. did that for about 5 years, then started learning how to write code. he now makes $170k/year, and he doesn't have a degree in cs. in fact, never went to college. in further fact, didn't even graduate from high school. but he's an amazing front-end dev and is highly regarded by his peers and clients.
QA does give a great environment to learn how to code. They get a leg up on documentation and if the company is not shit are allowed to attend meetings.
Some places have a higher barrier to entry. It's either because they haven't yet been found by the general public or because they're about something that is itself unpopular. You immediately see the difference.
You're proposing a bit of a false dichotomy. Imageboards can definitely be better than 2018 Jow Forums, it's just that none of them is about programming.
There is nothing wrong with being racist and sexist or even wanting to end your life if you're informed, have good reasons for it and don't constantly shove your opinion in others' faces. It's a lot like having an opinion on Vim vs. Emacs.
From what I've seen of Reddit, it isn't less vitriolic. What it is is full of ego and perception management. The vitriol comes not from from anger, autism and inhibition like here but from disgustingly transparent attempts to raise your social status and pander to the audience.
lol i'm somehow lucky...have never had any kind of problem. the thing i worry about though (but not a lot, knock on wood) is brain cancer. i spent the first 20 years of my career with my face staring right into big ol' CRTs like a dork.
no, i'm sure you aren't "the one and only"
>it really feels kind of like cheating
You need to internalize the fact that something is worth what others are willing to pay for it. It isn't the labor put into it (sorry, Marx) or the price of the components (many programmers and engineers think like this). If someone pays you for a service or a produce and you are able to deliver without fucking them over, that's what it's worth right now.
>If push comes to shove, are you able to write good clean modular re-usable code (eg: like the "experienced" devs do)?
>I think so.
Then you're probably doing alright. My code is usually pretty sloppy when I'm the only one working on it, but when I need to show it to other people, I can clean it up just fine. I kind of think of it like this: when I work alone at home, i'm just in my underwear and a t-shirt, but when I have to work with other people in person, I have to take a shower and put on pants. same thing with the code. at the end of the day, if your code works, it's fine.
Do you have a degree at all? Is it STEM?
It's not STEM
>inhibition
disinhibition
i have a non-cs degree and want into QA too. how did you get your first QA job?
>Being completely honest I earn above average (looking at friends who are employed) and it really feels kind of like cheating.
haha, man, i feel the same way. i tell friends/family from time to time that it fucking amazes me that people give me money (sometimes lots and lots of it) to do something that i really enjoy doing. most of the projects i work on, if the people just gave me a futon to sleep on and some food in my belly and a few bucks for shits and giggles, i'd still do the work for them.
If you don't know how to code don't bother. I say go to a boot camp and network.
i can somewhat relate, except in my case it's just due to being a dinosaur i guess. gotta basically relearn all there is about webdev these days to stay relevant in the industry
I feel the biggest problem is getting used to how simplifyed things are.
I decided to revisit Java and a lot of stuff is made simple but the learning curve to remember it is off putting.
methane is bad for the brain
to me that simplification is why it's so frustrating these days. almost all the resources i've found for picking up things like js (as well as things you'd use with it like node for example) don't actually explain what's going on or how anything works, it's more just "this is how you do this thing". for reference i've been doing c and c++ (gamedev, embedded systems) for almost a decade but the amount of jobs related to that compared to the amount of jobs for webdev, the difference is huge. i also just don't enjoy anything else and it kinda makes me question if i should even remain in this industry
It allows people to be more replaceable in my opinion.
Stop bragging, kjdshaf. Some of us out here have only been working for a year and really don't know shit.
Learn discrete math, data structures, et al.
Makes you feel like a big-brain.
What languages are you writing in?
Adopt a language with a good macro system if you haven't.
Life is too short to write code without a good macro system.
>I'm a smart, sane person
>still using a site primarily occupied by """racist""", """sexist""", """insert dismissive buzzword here""" teenagers
really makes you think
Software development isn't really about "knowing" things. It's about learning how to approach problems and research solutions. Bootcamps can help you put on the facade of knowing what you're talking about but these skills take years to develop.