Why is there so little Open Source culture in the gaming industry?
In web-development almost everything is open source. Even proprietary software is usually very cheap with the base package being for free even for enterprise companies; most of the times you only have to pay for cloud services and extended support.
Why do so many Kickstarter games financed by the community not offer insights into their code? Why are there so few alternatives to Unity-3D (at least ones that do not suck)?
why would you need source code for a game made in some proprietary engine? I mean i support companies releasing code for end-of-life games (their engines only) that stop getting supported so the community wont have to hack patches but honestly if someone makes a game on kickstarter its probably made in unity/gamemaker/etc and releasing source for it gives you nothing since its just scripting assets and stuff and not the engine itself.
Colton Bell
Because open source is funded and worked on almost entirely by the industry. If the industry thinks something is worth contributing to they put engineers on it or pay money forward to it.
The game industry is clearly too competitive to just open source something that you spent billions making without some guarantee you get money back. Not to mention all the proprietary middleware that game engines use like autodesk's GUI stack, speed tree, various physics engines, etc.
Jace Robinson
because the gaming industry is out to make money and closed source is better suited for this than open source. look at how all the popular MMOs would rather build their own game engine than use a licensed engine that needs royalties.
James Evans
>gaming industry is out to make money >webdev industry isn't
Every industry exists to make money how the fuck is that a difference
Grayson Peterson
>you spent billions making
I would imagine 60% of games fall under 1million in dev funds
Oliver Torres
Because the gaming industry is about milking the last penny from spoiled kids and menchildren. WEb dev and similar fields are about providing services to customers of a respectable company.
Eli Wright
webdev was made easy to learn and use/debug so much that they ruined any chance of anything being closed source.
pretty sure cryengine is open source and so is unreal engine if im not mistaken all other engines suck compared to those two.
Andrew Jones
Because the video game community is fucking trash.
Cause web-dev is a bunch of hipsters masturbating over how complicated they can make serving a website.
Gavin Lopez
There are lots of open source tools, libraries etc for game making. The final products are not open source, but neither are most programs, besides what has to be open source to work (i.e. front end for websites because of how browsers work, but often obfuscated). It's very rare for server code to be published anywhere.
Easton Gray
the gaming industry is way more into the money because they have to payback shareholders. also I guarantee you AAA game budgets exceed anything a webdev budget needs.
Ryder Green
>Unreal Engine >good software
Fuck Epic Games for handicapping AMD hardware by design on that shit. Might aswell rename it to Nvidia Intelgine
Jack Brooks
Capitalists want to monopolize everything possible while tech-syndicalists make a free, open, centerless and more superior products for free
I purposefully jumped from Unity to Godot due it offering some qualities such as performance.
Gabriel Peterson
yet ironically web devs make more money than game devs for far easier work
Isaiah Thomas
Does Godot support GPU accelerated physics and hair physics yet?
Henry Evans
Gaming is highly competitive with everyone basically ripping off each other.
You want too, if you can slow down your competition by not giving them the secret sauce on why your BR Survival hentai shooter is working and their's is not.
I also believe, but some one will correct me if I'm wrong. That no open source game has ever really been successful in the competitive online scene because the general mood of players when they hear "open source" that is' wide open for cheaters to start using third party software to cheat.
I know that isn't exactly true, but you're talking normies here.
This is why the Open source Arena shooters fashioned after Quake never had populations to speak of, on the whole Quake players are concerned about a fair game, and if your code is wide open for everyone to see, what keeps some one from rapidly developing cheats and exploits for it? At least those where common complaints when the Arena Shooter scene started to die.
Nowadays a company won't even release server files afraid of how the cheater industry will exploit it and a lot of players want it this way.
Angel Kelly
Just make your own 3d engine and game loop you fucking nigger If you'd knew anything about game dev more than unity and godot you would not post shitty threads like this
Jackson Bennett
As far i know nope, but what i'm doing does not require that.
Parker Allen
because vidya is dead and no one wants to be part of a community, just get rich with a shit game or become a streamer.
i would gladly donate to people but everything its been fucked up beyond redemption after steam took over and then gacha shit. at this point i just want it to fucking explode and start all over again.
>This is why the Open source Arena shooters fashioned after Quake never had populations to speak of Warsow was fairly popular at one point. That was before matchmaking ruined online multiplayer of course.
Landon Gutierrez
I would guess it's related to the same reason that motivates a push for more and more DRM in bigger games. Simply put: many "gamers" don't give a shit about compensating the authors in some way, and this mentality also extends to many gamedevs. Just read about what happened with Aseprite and Lugaru. The first one required a license for long-term usage, but had it's source available, and what happened was that many distros just included it as it were yet another foss package. Some even went and recompiled without the "please enter license" nag message even. The second one got repackaged and sold in the App Store at a lower price than what the original developer had set. The "re-packager" defended himself saying that it was legally ok as the source was gpl or something iirc.
This is other way of putting it too; when you're selling a product to a company, you can argue in terms of increased efficiency, reduced costs, legal compliance, etc. etc. when you're selling a product to a person that has a real problem (e.g. wants to organize himself better, follow a diet) you can also argue your value proposition in a similar way. When you're selling shit to gamers... I imagine it's a little tough.
Lincoln Evans
the truth.
indie gaming is a fucking buzzword, unreal tournament 4 will never come out, games take literal decades to come out now. and fangames and rom websites keep getting persecuted.
They can't even make finished vidya how the fuck can their stupid ass even function?
Ryder Harris
Are you meming/larping or are you actually trying to make a point? >indie gaming is a fucking buzzword What? How? Do you know what a buzzword is? >unreal tournament 4 will never come out What does it have to do with video games dying? >games take literal decades to come out now Games take a long time to be made like they always did, and some games take less. I can't see your point? >and fangames and rom websites keep getting persecuted. How?
You know what, honestly just kill yourself
Asher Hill
How about instead of wasting your time on interactive toys made for children, you can instead use real technology like an adult.
Brody Howard
This. I wish that everyone who wastes time on video games past the age of 18 would just be killed off as an useless waste of space.
Landon Sanders
>Both are amazing. Jesus Christ what happened to you Jow Forumsaymen?
Daniel Smith
Why are you samefagging? the IP count didn't change between your posts, at least try to not make it obvious It wouldn't surprise me that one person is making these shit threads and replying to himself
Jose Moore
>muh hair physics
Joshua Turner
>The first one required a license for long-term usage, but had it's source available Wrong. It was entirely GPL licensed. Distros packaging it was perfectly valid. The Lugaru copy however wasn't as the assets were not open source licensed.
Samuel Rivera
>i dont understand what you are saying kill yourself
i wont answer you a damn thing, think whatever the hell you want.
Ayden Clark
If you really aren't meming, try to take a step back and read the shit you just posted, and then try to come up with a readable, valid point
Liam Russell
>Why are there so few alternatives to Unity-3D (at least ones that do not suck)? because engine programming actually requires skill user. fucking comparing it to web development.
Leo Myers
nigga is easy, indie games went from being a summer project for kids to be made by "indie games companies" with millions behind. Unreal4 was opensourced but epic decided to not support it anymore in favor of fortnite. We went from 30 games from diferent studios every month to at best 5 new "big releases" by the same 5 companies every YEAR.
this shit is not new and has been getting worse since 2010 when gacha took over and Pc gaming became "steam gaming".
Caleb James
how're you so stupid? it's obvious what he's talking about
Chase Peterson
Buzzword was a perfectly fine word to use there. Lots of developers and hobbyists were perfectly fine with doing their work for years without ever mentioning they were indie developers.
>What does it have to do with video games dying? Unreal Tournament 4 was a true game, not some product that feed people false achievements and bad habits. On the Quake side of things, you get loot boxes and daily login rewards, + a shit engine that can't handle online play at all.
There are some great games being made once in a while, but the majority will still be cheap cash grabs or made purely make people addicted.
>Games take a long time to be made like they always did. Sure, a year or two. I think this is more to do with complexity of the engines and models. There is a lot more work to do today if you want a game that takes advantage to our hardware. But you also have those shitty kickstarter devs that spend far too many years working part time (between working as a full time victim) on some crappy 2D game or clunky unity/ue game.
Ethan Butler
>indie games went from being a summer project for kids to be made by "indie games companies" with millions behind You're implying that there are no games made by small "real" indies companies left? I could name 10 of them right now >Unreal4 was opensourced but epic decided to not support it anymore in favor of fortnite. Who gives a fuck about epic or unreal engine? How is it so important for the industry?
Nathaniel Brown
>Sure, a year or two. I think this is more to do with complexity of the engines and models. There is a lot more work to do today if you want a game that takes advantage to our hardware. But you also have those shitty kickstarter devs that spend far too many years working part time (between working as a full time victim) on some crappy 2D game or clunky unity/ue game. It's just so happen that easy to use, fully fledged game engines have been made available for cheap/free, and getting a game into steam is piss easy It's obvious that a lot of cash grab or shitty games will appear, but the net amount of good games didn't change. I don't see what you are complaining about
Chase Carter
>how is the first big opensourced game project important for the industry >i can name you 10 games made by kids, this somehow proves that the word "indie games" hasnt lost its original meaning
I could rant for hours about how match making was the biggest mistake in gaming history.
It ruined PC shooting culture completely.
Joseph Rivera
Not really complaining, I just understand where that user is coming from.
Something that I've been thinking ab out lately, People made maps and mods for games goldsrc/source/idtech for well over a decade, and all they wanted was some recognition for it. Now people charge for it. Modders even jumped on the paid mods crap from bethesda (tho there was also a lot of hate).
Andrew Lopez
because a web browser is basically an interpreter.
the holy trinity of web development (HTML, CSS, Javascript) rely on you sending your high level code plaintext over the network for a web browser to interpret.
contrast that with application development where you can send people programs already in binary / machine readable form ready to execute.
William Green
Before: >different kinds of server communities, everyone could find one they like, a sense of community with familiar faces Now: >get mashed up with some random salty fucks who start complaining the moment the match starts, no sense of community because everyone you see is some random fuck who you will never see again >game companies try to combat the vitriol that spawns from the lack of community feeling by chat moderation etc. pointless measures that do nothing to the root cause, ultimately ending up in a situation that pleases no-one
I’m so mad.
Benjamin Clark
>Return of the Obra Dinn, one developer >Manifold Garden, one developer >Stone Story RPG, one developer >Eastshade, one developer >Celeste, two developers >Scorn, ten developers >The Messenger, ten developers >The Last Night, eight developers >PLANET ALPHA, three developers >Eitr, two developers yeah just fuck off
Henry Lee
and back then the gaming industry wasn't as nearly developed. My buddy used to publicly release very high quality models, he wasn't doing it out of the goodness of his heart he was student trying to get a job then.
Jaxon Sanders
People misusing the word ”indie” doesn’t mean that actual indie games don’t exist anymore. Instead of complaining about games you don’t like, try something like Factorio and Rimworld and be surprised what you get when you have an one man with a vision.
Zachary Scott
>how is the first big opensourced game project important for the industry And yeah this makes it obvious that you don't actually know shit about game dev or game engines Unreal engine is not important, neither is unity or godot or whatever. You can make your own 3d game engine in a week if you're serious about making something
Andrew Sanchez
Preach brother.
A friend of mine and I were lamenting about it earlier. We talked about server communities we missed back in the good ole days. How much more fun you could have in those servers because not everyone was acting like top twitch streamer try hard or a fucking anti-social troll, and if they did they got fucking booted.
A good group of Admins could make a server flourish, you could have fun even if you weren't the best or interested in the meta game as much.
Fucking nowadays the server queues are filled with faggot Zoomers who think they're going to be the next big thing on twitch and when they aren't mic spamming or try harding, they're watching 2 hours videos on how to try hard.
Match making and twitch fucking ruined the online gaming scene and left us no way to contain the cancer.
Grayson Williams
Unless you are just pasting together a bunch of already existing middleware and sub systems there is no way you can make a 3d game engine in a week.
Sebastian Walker
i was talking about unreal tournament 4.
im not even complaining about any game you salty fuck.
oh i know celeste and was made by at least 5 people. like i said, that doesnt prove anything, never said true indie games werent made anymore.
Ryder Hughes
Yes you can, if you are not a brainlet just read a wikipedia article about 3d projection and rotation matrices Otherwise just watch a random youtube tutorial like this youtube.com/watch?v=ih20l3pJoe
Lucas Reed
That's like saying a janitor makes more than a waiter. Get a proper job.
Noah Long
He can still do that. Seeing the quality of some of the art commissions people pay for, makes it seem like a developer trying to sell their helloworld.py.
your response indicates to me that me and you are on completely different planets as to what qualifies as a 3d engine.
Lucas Bell
Of course you're not going to make something fully fledged with networking and shit, but a simple 3d engine with an fps camera and movement is easily doable
Samuel Adams
Video games aren't fun anymore.
Daniel Long
If you know where to look, you can find plenty of "open source" games. Mostly MMOs, but it is out there.
Owen Robinson
Unreal engine 4 isn't open source. You can read it but if you use it you still owe them money.
Owen Taylor
with web dev, the tools are free and open source because everyone pretty much wants to make it easy to get a product in front of consumers. that product is anything from physical goods (ebay, amazon, etc) to media (netflix, spotify, etc) and a bunch of other shit (banking, news, anything you can put an advertisement next to to make money).
with gaming, the games ARE the product.
William Adams
Yea but they're "cinematic" now. Who cares about fun, people just want to play movies
Hudson Stewart
>with gaming, the games ARE the product. Yea but game engines aren't retard. The engine is the same thing as the framework running web services. Spring and node are open source yet they're the "engines" running the web products. The web fronts are just the pretty graphics, i.e. the art and game mechanics
Joseph Miller
wow, how hard did you have to work to miss the point?
>Why is there so little Open Source culture in the gaming industry? because gamedevs were immune to the retarded open source brainwashing in the 1990s. gamedevs know that their work has value and they want to get paid for it. open source retards have been brainwashed into thinking their work is worthless so they give it away for free.
Oliver Rodriguez
Fuck off Schlomo
William Collins
spring, node - both trivial shitware. the only thing that keeps competitors from arising is that it's a shitton of tedious work to write a competing framework. and then you can't even ask money for it because every retard who knows how to spell JS has written his own shitty framework. game engines on the other hand are intended to make money and if you want to sell your shit you need a competitive advantage. the barrier to entry is not to write a bunch of shitty boring JS but to have proper technological supremacy over your competitors. opensourceing your product would just lead to competitors copying your tech. that's why every serious software is proprietary and closed source and only toyware is released open source
Julian Cruz
go to your baked and request he gives away bread for free because something something stallman commieshit. guess how long it takes till he laughs you out of the store.
then go to your local hackerspace and tell them to give away their stuff for free.
Blake Wood
>conflating property with "intellectual property" >calling FOSS communist Non arguments don't magically become arguments by constantly repeating them.
Austin Rivera
I got to know some of the people that play QC. Some of them don't even say "play QC" anymore. They say practice. Really sucks the fun out of it, and they always get buttmad when they're put on a team that doesn't work well together. Whenever I want to get into a game today, people send me hours of youtube tutorials, instead of just joining a few games with me to show me the ropes. This is now how I remember getting into Enemy Territory and CS 1.x.
Angel James
Open Source is for poor people.
The devs that make it and the people that use it.
Evan Gonzalez
Exactly.
People don't play games any more. They either practice or compete. I don't remember that being a thing really before MatchMaking.
I don't mind Esports, but Back in the CS 1.6 days Esports was relegated to its own servers and leagues. Those who wanted it, could seek it out.
Nowadays it's the default mode, I think the industry embraced this because it makes people "play" past the point of fun or to "play" for some possible tangible reward. It's became a scam, zoomers will never know the simple fun of playing with friends for the simple act of play.
God damn this black pill.
Parker Brooks
games are too advanced now so even if they were open source no one would really do anything with it. doom was open source and was basic enough that there were mods and source ports. same with quake. doom3 was also open sourced and no one really cared. there are enough games out now that none of them really stand out and no one even cares about looking at their source code.
Logan Flores
>In web-development almost everything is open source. Because in web you want your shit adopted by browsers. With games you adapt your soft for a target platform and get to keep all the royalty
Landon Gonzalez
There is dhewm3, but I've never seen anyone talk about it, and I'm sure we'll never see mods or ports like the fancy map packs or mods like the adventures of squares and arcane dimensions on the doom3 engine. Then again, I haven't been paying attention so there might be some projects based on Doom 3 around.
Because all the video games you play are dependent on monopolistic hardware companies that have no interest in doing sensible things such as "not reinventing the wheel every 5 years." Step outside the console (and steam) bubble and you'll see there are plenty of free software games. I swear you UE4/Unity retards can't enjoy anything unless the graphics look better than what you played last year.
Grayson Phillips
This hit way to close to home. I have been playing an open source arena shooter for more than 5 years and it makes me feel sad that the developer is a disabled guy who only gets one dollar a month on Patreon.
If i get rich, i fucking promise that i will give him at least $1000 a month.
Fucking free software fags think they are doing God's work just because they dumped their source code online. Oh boy can't wait for another useless project to be uploaded to Github that takes longer to figure out what they did then just writing the code yourself.
Jordan Barnes
?
Dominic Gomez
this IS open source
Hudson Anderson
that's why its called FOSS. Free AND Open Source Software. Open source just literally means you can see the original source code without doing something hacky like de-compiling or reverse engineering.
Nathaniel Turner
everything would literally be copy paste
Jason Carter
Cheating.
Camden Ramirez
>Why is there so little Open Source culture in the gaming industry? Because it's huge and designed to make money. >In web-development almost everything is open source. Because billions of shitty worthless websites that make no money.
TLDR: Valuable shit is valuable. Worthless shit is worthless.
Jose Anderson
It kinda is in many cases. There's a shitton of common libraries that all engines use because they just werk.
Lincoln Parker
But open source is always garbage, so your LSD-fuelled post is a lie.
Justin Torres
GTA 5 dev was 250,000,000 USD
Why do you think we're so far away from the PS low dev cost era
Parker Morris
Stallman is too autistic to eat psychedelics
Blake James
What does money have to do with anything? you can download proprietary software without paying too. Trying to make a computer program that can't be copied is like trying to make water that isn't wet.
Sebastian Cruz
Unity offers no freedom for the user. I can't wait for another shitty proprietary company to attempt to nickel-and-dime me on a useless product while at the same time kneecapping my ability to fix their mistakes.
Carter Long
go to /v with this shit
Xavier Reyes
/thread
Joseph Jackson
The average code for a commercial game is pretty awful since you can almost guarantee they’ve gone through several iterations of trying different things out then finishing most things off with horrible hacks since they didn’t have any time left after the 10th crunch.
Elijah Cox
Because you have nothing to gain from sharing your source code and there are many potential risks Developers share programming techiques and discoveries with each other through presentations and papers and really that's enough