Why is Rust so hated here?

It lets you do that, but it's a hundred times more verbose than in C/C++ because you need to write out the names of all the transformations you want to use, and insert calls to unwrap() everywhere to bypass the error checking. Nobody writing C/C++ wants to worry about error checking, why would they use a language that has to be told to ignore it?

Do we really need two threads about Rust?

Because Jow Forums can't write software so the only possible criticism is the webshit migrant community.

Why does people associate Rust with webshit?

Because Rust is literally full of webshit. I don't know how it became babby's first system language but it did. Webshits are somehow migrating to it, possibly because of the mozilla connection? Maybe it's just the guaranteed training wheels. I don't know why but if you look at the crates ecosystem you can see it's extremely npm-like in its current state.

It's an odd intersection of hardcore low level backend guys and former webshitters saying "look i can use this too if i turn on my brain"

communist niggerlover

>let
>{ field: value }
>egyptian braces
the syntax is copied from javascript

For the record, webshitters are still better than 90% of Jow Forums users.

I mean, does it have some framework like Node/Express or Django or Java EE? Otherwise it's quite pointless as a web server language.

No, actual webshit isn't even part of the standard library. I suspect people were trying to do non-webshit in webshit tools and found out javascript on the server was a fucking terrible idea but they weren't allowed to use C.

arewewebyet.org/

because the standard library is geared towards web and networking and not much else

a lot of the people on Jow Forums aren't tech literate enough to appreciate the pros of the language so they bash it because of the coc.

Still looks immature to be honest. Not a huge fan of JavaScript but I'd rather use node which has a much better support and is way more tested. Or just go with Python which most of the times is the best way when you don't need low level.

Actually that is a lot more Scala-like. The type infer + pseudo functional made me think that they wanted to somehow mix Scala with C. And I'm still not really convinced about the results. That's probably because I generally don't even think too much about the language itself but about whether there are the right tools for it to do a certain job. And Rust is still almost non-existent in professional environments today.

Which one is right?

Rust doesn't even have an answer to but you can spin up a multi-threaded server in a day.

>Why is Rust so hated here?
The language itself isn't terrible. But watch any Rust conf, the community is fucking disgusting, and seemingly about 40% transgender.

C++ isn't much better for that, if you actually put stock in that kind of shit. One of the top C++ proponents (and Rust basher) is transgender.

youtube.com/watch?v=7THzO-D0ta4

rustconf.com/
Is the video in this page a good sample of the community?

Rust is not particularly high level so it's not really competing with a js or python like golang is. It's definitely immature but having a small stdlib isn't inherently bad either.

If you want to write an nginx or database or network switching shit, Rust's a good tool for that.

Jow Forums lashes out at what it can't comprehend

Is it even a transgender? Looks like a truck driver

>Isabella Muerte
you tell me

But does C++ so heavily revolve on "community" shit? As a professional you may not ever cross paths with such people. And you just nitpicked a speaker

Could just be a transvestite

Let's say I find a bug while using Rust, I create a bug report or fix it myself I become subject to that CoC.

Let's say I use Rust and need more Rust developers in my company. Who is going to apply?
Probably some communist faggot.
Never Rust.

Rust is just yet another attempt to come at C++. Another thing it has in common with those other languages (Java, C#, etc) is that it is designed to be easy to use with little fuck ups for low-skilled worker bees. (mostly pajeets for both java and C# too, and now for Rust it'll be diversity hires).

If C++ is under attack, it needs to fight back. Bjarne should do a marketing partnership with the NRA.

no because C++ is well thought out and standardized in such a way that anyone can make their own compiler and tooling for it. Rust will always be at the mercy of the core rust devs because they *are* the standard. And then there's the matter of Rust's standard library being awful and forcing you to use external crates for pretty much everything, each with some obscure license and CoC.

I'm not saying Rust is good or even comparable with C++, I'm just saying that you'll find mentally ill people everywhere.

C++ is fine, with every release of a new standard they add some new features to appease "modern" coding tards and sanitize potentially dangerous or conflicting methods of coding things. This leads to some volatility in the language which a lot of people argue back and forth with, but it's OK since at least the language is evolving. Does it look like a bloated mess sometimes? Yeah, but it works, and it works exceedingly well.

Rust is retarded commie faggotry. If C++ is going to be replaced with anything it should be fucking Ada, an absolutely based language.

>no because C++ is well thought out and standardized
Lmao you can't expect anyone to take you seriously when you start out saying that.

Forgot to mention, what I'm getting at is that basically C++ will never die and these meme languages will never make a dent in it. They've been trying to for decades. Real developers (ie. every single major corporation in every field, from embedded to cloud) have a vested interest in keeping C++ going.

These posts are so cute. Being better than C++ is incredibly easy, many languages already did it, like C for example.

killyourmemes.jpg

I don't have any experience with Ada, but I do have experience with VHDL which is essentially just a dialect of Ada and I think the syntax is horrible.

Up

Rust is a systems language it has more in common with Ada or D than java or c#. You don't like the creators politics so you're just making up a bunch of idiotic nonsense to equate it to other languages and people you don't like.

>make their own compiler and tooling
>well thought out and standardized
C++ is the opposite, C++ is the result of decades of bullshit getting in without standards. Rust uses a standard compiler system (LLVM) and has an amazing macro system to handle non-standard extensions.

Ada is not fast, its cute though.

What issues could you have in fixing a bug with the CoC? You wouldn't have much interaction I guess? I'm genuinely interested in knowing.

Pretty much this, most of the "criticism" for Rust comes from blind hatred from Jow Forumsfags who don't have anything to actually say about the language

>inability to reasonably represent a graph
>what are indices
>what is an adjacency list
>what is an adjacency matrix
literally all the CS-tried-and-true ways to represent a graph are there

if you're trying to use pointers, you're already being inefficient due to multiple layers of indirection, and an incredibly fragmented cache. If you just use indices into a vec, then you have cache-coherency and everything is a quick array lookup.

And most praise of Rust is from SJW tier people who only praise "inclusiveness" and "diversity"

No, most of it is from people who have actually tried the language and see its benefits, of course you wouldn't know never having actually read the book.

Why do you even need inclusion, just code, no one's keeping you from doing it

this is nonsense, adjacency matrices aren't scalable and while adjacency lists are good, the implementation in petgraph (which is the only sane Rust-friendly way) is horribly inefficient. You're forgetting that it's rather complicated to work with mutable adjacency lists in Rust.

This too, people seem to think that the Rust CoC includes all programs you write in it, which is actually asinine.

>the book
Of course there is only one book from it's company. Long live freedom

Name why Rust is a "Systems language". Outside of 32-bit/64-bit mainstream OS Rust is not even technically 100% validated making it useless for embedded development. It's not nothing notable to its name aside from a web browser it in parts of its build. The "Rust" OS is just a meme project that's no better than other meme OS projects people do in other languages that aren't systems related.

I'll assume this is bait as there's already been 3 iterations of the official language book so you're either retarded or trolling.

I think Rust is BS but it's fine for embedded so long as you cross-compile (because god knows the Rust compiler is garbage). It uses LLVM so any processor with an LLVM backend (most of them) is supported.

you can pretty much do whatever under the code of conduct as long as you're not calling people niggers or some other stupid Jow Forums shit. if you aren't able to follow such flexible and unrestrictive rules you probably are suffering from Oppositional Defiant Disorder, and you should seek medical attention for it.

>the kernel and OS written in it does not prove it's suitable for systems level programming
uhhhhh

This also applies the other way around. All the lgbt people could just code in any other languages without having one with a CoC made to favor them. I didn't even know all this drama before going to Jow Forums

There is a Common Lisp project that has written a kernel and OS in it. Would you call Common Lisp a systems level programming language?

3 iterations all from the core team of SJWs. Tell me a good book, better if an O'Reilly tier one, on Rust. Now repeat the search for C++. See the difference?

How can two people be so wrong? Rust's low level and fast, it's mostly useless for embedded though because of the ridiculous size and memory requirements to achieve that speed

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaOS

Java was a systems language too ;)

What do you mean size requirements? Just strip the binary bro.

This. The embedded part is the less shitty part of Rust, can actually be fun for simple projects.

I have no interest in the politics of the rust developers. I've been waiting for a replacement for c++ for years to gain traction. You're an NPC. No different from the people you make fun of. It's just blue team bad with you Jow Forumsniggers.

Who the hell does such a shitty wordpress default page for it's most important conference?

Imagine being so much of an angry Jow Forumstard that you assume just because *some of* the creators have some views, it is projected in their work. The official language book is very easy to learn with and teaches you pretty much everything you need to know, and doesn't have any "SJW" views in it. Please try arguing about something you actually know about next time, user!

its a restult of their hybrid? dispatch design. Rust has notoriously huge binaries, stripping does very little for any lang though.

>Rust's low level
>doesn't even let you manage your own memory or free it
>have to obey by lifetimes or reference counting

yikes

>Rust
>Traction
It's a dead language, no one uses it except hobbyists and indie gamejam-tier gayme devs and it's probably gonna die for good in a few years.

>doesn't even let you manage your own memory or free it
Wrong.

>still under development
>it is dead
flawless logic

>low-level
>allocating memory

The huge binaries are a result of everything being statically linked, usually.

>obey
If you want to free memory, free memory. The only thing you're forced to adhere to is the logical requirements of your own code. In nightly iirc you can set custom memory allocators instead of just having jemalloc.

No, please stop talking shit.

Perl 6 is still under development too, doesn’t make it any less dead.

Imagine being such a Jow Forumstard that you don't even understand that my point is not the book being SJW, but the lack of variety. If I want to learn C, i can choose between K&R, King, etc... if I want to learn Java or Scala, there's like 10 different choices. If I want to learn Python, I have a plethora of options depending on what usage I need for it.

For Rust there is only one book, and that's it. No one is writing serious books about it except the devs because they want to keep full control over it.

I've even read the rust book and it's not that bad, but at the same time it's verbose and still unclear in some passages.

>No, please stop talking shit.
What are you disputing, exactly? The fact that Rust produces large binaries? Or the fact that a major reason for its large binaries is static linking?

>No, please stop talking shit.
You got me there, yup.

Attached: point.jpg (601x625, 44K)

The fact that you don't conform to the CoC

>For Rust there is only one book, and that's it. No one is writing serious books about it except the devs because they want to keep full control over it.

Nobody's writing other books because the official book explains everything in an already reasonable and understandable way. And if someone else wanted to write their own rust book, what say would the rust dev team have about it? Are you a literal dumbass?

Rust has manual memory management and is significantly more performant than java or common lisp(lisp is still great though). You can write whatever you want in any language that's the point their turning complete. What are you fucking retarded ? Again you're just trying to lump lanagues together with little in common becuase you don't like the politics of the people that made them.

If it wasn't your point you wouldn't feel the need to constantly bring it up. The language is too much under development where any feature could be changed in the very near future, so writing a book about it right now would not make sense, unless it was maintained up-to-date online.

Also

The linker isn't rust specific. They're actually using that new LLVM linker in nightly, too.

I agree on not books, there's the official one and an oreilly one though. There's not a lot of designs that really transfer to a borrow-centric model. You don't have "N programming paradigms for lifetime management" cause they just haven't happened yet. Idiomatic Rust is "it compiles."

>The linker isn't rust specific. They're actually using that new LLVM linker in nightly, too.
static linking isn't a specific linker, it just means you have no external dependencies on dynamic libraries

this static linking puts it in the executable itself, dynamic linking would have the libraries loaded at runtime from separate files like .dll / .so / .dylib's

>Why does a brand new language not have as many books is a 40 year language that is the standard system lanagues for some of the biggest operating systems in the world.
C++ actual might give people brain damage.

Rust has notoriously huge binaries even for statically linked programs. Happy now?

This. This board is its just a bunch big talk shitty gamers who learned how to use Linux after 10000 tutorials and now suddenly are experts in programming because they learned how to meme pretend to be too cool for certain shit. 90% of threads here are haha apple vs android haha my linux box better haha.

Have you ever watched a typical cpp conf? Imagine the smell.

that's because the standard library is linked to the executable unlike with C/C++ where the runtimes are common on every system. compile gcc and tell it to link everything static, you'll get large binaries too. plus space is not nearly as important as execution speed.

Even with static linking there's LTO which will lessen that impact, there's a ton of generated symbols for generics and dispatch shit. IIRC internally every lifetime of a type is semi-treated like its own type? It's really slow to compile cause it does a lot of nuts optimizations. It is not tuned for small filesize.

SHUT UP GUYS RUST IS DOING FINE 8 YEARS LATER

Attached: file.png (3082x2202, 1012K)

You can easily work with DAG's in a scalable way in Rust. But Java or C# will have a better performance for that kind of workload because the compacting GC reduces the number of cache misses, assuming you don't hit the write barrier too often.

It is indeed slow to compile, I hope once the language features are fully fleshed out they work more on making it compile faster.