I'm not a programmer I'm a software engineer

I think it is a useful way to distinguish code monkeys from true artists.

Don't know about Murrica but it's like this. You can be a programmer without higher education, and your job just that, writing code.
For software engineer you need to have an degree and few years of experience. Your job is designing software, writing specifications, coding...
It's different

The logo is not about mathematical perfection, but about what looks and feels good. The URL bar thing also makes sense, because you're supposed to type text there, which will appear about centered. If all text looked like a bunch of cursors, you'd have a point.

Especially when it comes to safety critical systems you need a SEng and not any pajeet

>ship breaks
>Mr boomer yacht trip is ruined boohoo.
>software breaks
>companies, governments and hospitals go down immediately
Quite an "accomplishment" you got there.

Because there's a huge difference between being a programmer (code monkey) and a software engineer (which involves architecture, security, performance, forward/backward compatibility, whatever shit).

At least when it comes to jobs, if a company is looking for a programmer or software developer they're just looking for a code monkey and have already one or more software engineers in the company.

Where are you people living?
They're completely interchangeable.

Based

Where do I find girls like this?

I'll accept either term. I don't understand the distinction between the terms, because by the very nature of program, you're designing software. I cannot think of a way that you could program something without putting any sort of thought into it at all, unless you're being told exactly what to do at a line-by-line basis.
I don't like being called a "coder", though.

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>ship breaks down
>it's this absolute unit
If this fucking ship is late, someone's going to have to pay millions of dollars. And no you can't just deploy a hotfix while it's offshore somewhere in the ocean.

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I'd wager most commercial products are programmed by copy-paste.
Though copying code could be a conscious design choice, it often isn't.
Essentially, programming is to software engineering as assembly is to mechanical engineering.

You could be some low-tier Pajeet in a big Enterprise™ filling in the gaps for whatever the software analyst and software architect throw at you. You have all your classes and interfaces set in stone and automatically generated from UML. All you have to do is implement the methods. I've never worked like this, but supposedly some Java programmers do.

>Why do people this?
what?

it's better like that. whenever i see a monkey who call himself a dev, developer, software engineer, xxx architect etc, i know he is a monkey.

similarly anyone uses the term app for software, i know he is a monkey. i save time that way.

ken thompson and edsger dijkstra called themselves programmer, who gives a fuck how these monkeys call themselves.

I just say "I do computer shit".Using nerd words makes you look like a smartass and a dick.

Is an architect a construction worker, user?

ITT: people trying to make themselves believe that programming is engineering.

Glad I studied EE with a master in signal processing instead.

From the wiki page, it looks like it was built mainly as a (beautiful) vanity project

so much better than the original

It shouldn't be perfectly symmetrical, wouldn't ft their humanist design
l2typography
l2design

If the text one isn't retarded, why did they fix it with the latest chrome redesign?

difference is that programmer and software engineer is synonymous.

>Software engineering refers to the application of engineering principles to create software. Software engineers participate in the software development life cycle through connecting the client’s needs with applicable technology solutions. Thus, they systematically develop processes to provide specific functions. In the end, software engineering means using engineering concepts to develop software.

>On the other hand, software developers are the driving creative force behind programs. Software developers are responsible for the entire development process. They are the ones who collaborate with the client to create a theoretical design. They then have computer programmers create the code needed to run the software properly. Computer programmers will test and fix problems together with software developers. Software developers provide project leadership and technical guidance along every stage of the software development life cycle.

I just say Software Developer so to keep it vague.

10. electr. engineer
9. computer engineer
8. software engineer
7. computer scienteer
6. information technologeer
5. programmeer
4. codeer
3. webdeveer
2. graphic designeer
1. pajeeteer

Engineering principles are used in the creation of software, it is a form of engineering. I'm disappointed that you also decided to be a bigot along with your EE studies.

A software engineer theoretically has the knowledge and skill to design entire frameworks for a large scale development. A programmer doesn't necessarily have the skills to do more than fill out some of the functions according to the software engineer's specification that were assigned to him.

I'm whatever my company wants to name me, but I know I'm actually just a programmer.

>muh bigotry

I've worked with devs in multiple companies. And I do quite a bit software myself.
Engineering principles are pretty much non-existent in software development, unless you work with safety-critical systems where you actually need to adhere to a strict set of practices.

Also, there's nothing wrong with being a programmer. But I am just tired of programmers trying to glorify their work.
Software development is just different from engineering, which also has a lot of bonuses. I'm sure civil engineers would love to be able to send updates to a bridge.

>civil engineers would love to be able to send updates to a bridge
They can except it has to be done with a crane. That's why they're always checking for cracks and run tests as part of their maintenance schedule

Comp sci and EE are more respectable

how does that ship get out. it's stuck there

It's easy:
>I think more than I type
Software Engineer
>I type more than I think
Programmer
>I type without thinking
Coder

That's it, I'm going to go work on a ship.
What qualifications do you need?

Where's the code artisan?

True. My only point was that programmers don't seem to take pride in their craft. There is a weird need for silly titles in the tech industry.
Hopefully this will stop at some point.

>maintain onsite servers
>setup and maintain customer installations
>administrates internal issue systems
>occationally answers a service related question
>title: helpdesk

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Software development !== software engineering, a developer takes a functional specification and delivers the code required within set parameters, generally completing their task in isolation and without understanding or oversight of the project as a whole. An engineer architects customized systems, defines processes, creates specifications, implements refactoring, etc. Any software engineering course teaches you how to apply engineering principles to each stage of the software development process. My guess is that you, being an EE, have never participated in software engineering yourself and have only seen the development side.

I just tell people I'm a software developer, I'm not just come code monkey but I'm also not in the trade long enough to be seen as an engineer

Put your tongue back in your mouth you uncultured swine

And yet those "engineers" are gonna sit down and program with the other programmers. I have done my fair share of specification development, but I don't run around and call myself a software engineer because I can use UML, manage software lifetime and do a risk analysis. Mechanical engineers doing this are usually called managers for instance.

In an obscure vegan coffee shop in San Fran blogging about diversity.

are you implying you can't engineer software? because you can, regardless of the fact that people misuse the term

I don't imply that, I'm saying that real software engineering is rarely done. Most people calling themselves software engineers are in fact not actually engineering anything. They should try entering the world of safety-critical software, now that's software engineering.

>I'm saying that real software engineering is rarely done
It's done all the time, programs have to be designed and to design them you use engineering principles

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

me at the... top(?)

>firmware engineer
>network engineer
>software engineer
>hardware engineer
>systems engineer
>realtime engineer
>electronic engineer

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>HR engineer

she's pretty.

NO GOD
NO GOD PLEASE NO
NO
NO
NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Where does a full-stack web developer who also knows Java and C go in this list?

4.5

I want to cum inside his boipussi

The tide comes up, you immense fuck head.

Engineering principles require some real rigor, simply designing something alone is not engineering. In many sane countries and parts of the US (not commiefornia) its actually illegal to call yourself an engineer without being licensed by a professional board. (requires an engineering degree, not cs, 4-5 years of experience on top of that, plus an ethics and law exam)

>and parts of the US (not commiefornia) its actually illegal to call yourself an engineer without being licensed by a professional board
What states in the US? I don't believe you.

I'm a live sound engineer working in NY and I didn't even finish college
What parts of America are you talking about

>female studies engineer
>engineering the ugly blue haired dyke of tomorrow

This. Definitely true in Canada anyway

Because there's a massive fucking difference that only someone who has never worked in industry or doesn't even hold a higher education level qualification would know.

PROTIP: many software engineers don't write a line of code on a project.

Only Canadians are autistic about people calling themselves engineers, they even do some faggy ritual with rings.

As it should be otherwise the title of engineer loses all meaning

Because when you say "programmer" it could mean anything from code monkey blindly writing other people's specs, in game advertising code, webdev, or working on something actually useful. Calling themselves not a programmer is aggravating, but I understand why they say that and want to differentiate.

This isn't exclusive to Canada, even New York has a rings ritual

Her boyfriend is black btw.

That's your opinion. You have no idea if that's why people say that, that's just why YOU say it.

I don't care as long as I keep getting paid six figs.

t. insecure dicklet

No I'm not

it's sad really.

>durr hurr I'm a developer
No pajeet, you're a programmer. Now write my code boy.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>her

> theoretically has the knowledge
according to whom? nobody cares about this except 15 year olds and buzzword shills who think labels matters. for normal people they mean the same thing. software engineer is the same as programmer. it's been pointed out 10 times now. it's the same exact thing. i have math/CS studies and 20 years of programming experience, and i sometimes call myself a software engineer, sometimes programmer, or just dev, and people are welcome to refer to me as either, because it doesn't matter.

>her

ENDURANCE RUN

I hope he has a large dick to make him/her look the used goods he/she is