MIL/SATCOM

Also good getting any permission from the FAA for this
assuming you live in the US

Good luck*

You also need permission to launch objects into space. Space garbage is a serious issue that could potentially lock us out of accessing space at all.

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>Jow Forums doesn't know shit about cubesats
color me surprised

>what are cubesats
retards
if you can't answer OP's question and want to bump the thread a "bumping" is enough
for 50k it's doable, but you're gonna have to use a low gain omnidirectional antenna which means your speeds are going to be absolute shit.
you're probably better off paying for an off the shelf satellite internet/voice/data burst service from Iridium, and the money would probably last you longer than the operational life of your shitty sat anyways, since it's not like you're gonna be transmitting that much data through an omnidirectional antenna in LEO that passes over your head every couple of days for 5 minutes. and for 50k you probably couldn't launch anything into a geosynchronous orbit and the RF gain would be so bad as to be unusable

Wait, what if OP uses optical communications? Now on that five minute pass OP can download gigabytes of tranny porn. So all the time the satellite's not flying over OP's house and the tranny porn factory, it's charging batteries. When it's flying over either of the two, we point a telescope and a laser at it. For transmission from the satellite we dump all our battery power to flashing bright ass motherfucker LEDs, all fucking over because you can't point cubesats. For reception on the satellite, I'm not sure. If you make your laser powerful enough, you can use the solar panels to detect the signal. Power requirements will be such that you'll probably shoot your eye out. There also might be some crazy optical shit you can do to receive a laser near omnidirectionally. Of course the real way to do it is to point the satellite at stuff, but that's hard and expensive. Laser comm to ground has already been demonstrated at 50 Mbps down on a 1.5 u cubesat:
directory.eoportal.org/web/eoportal/satellite-missions/a/aerocube-ocsd
100 kbps up though. You probably need a telescope on your cubesat for better bandwidth. Optical comms also getting interesting now that everyone's trying to make solid state beam steering devices for autonomous cars. Or fuck, maybe 100GHz 5g actually makes sense here.

interesting idea
the problem with using 100ghz or other high frequencies could be that all that atmosphere the signal has to go through would decrease the strength too much
with the optical thing, if the problem is upload, you can always use a bigger laser
but then again that probably applies to radio too

I just hack into old Indian/Chinese satellites, then simulate total failure. I choose companies that have dozens of satellites up there and target older satellites near the end of life so they think it is organic failure and just forget about it.
>no one on Jow Forums has their own satellite
shiggy

that sounds detailed enough as to be believable, except you would need proprietary documentation for the communication protocols
but can you imagine if the satellite stuff was just like routers where one bitcoin miner tries to wipe the device from its competitors, and secure the device so other's don't get access to it too? now that would be cyberpunk as fuck

>except you would need proprietary documentation for the communication protocols
Yeah, turns out people living in poor countries, receiving shitty salaries for positions requiring a lot of knowledge/expertise relative to the West are unhappy and are willing to sell you information! Who would've thought, eh?

And where do you get the money to pay them to be willing to expose themselves to being royally fucked? It's not like you can sell satellite service out of a stolen Chinese satellite
How do you even find out who to contact? Are you going to Linked In and email spamming every engineer that works for the company?
Do you develop the control tools yourself? What SDR do you use? How many satellites have you hacked? How do you make the satellite stop responding to the owners commands? How do you prevent them from detecting the satellite is still sending data when it's supposedly dead? I would guess there's a recovery module that always responds as long as the satellite got power, and that they can still receive data if they point an antenna to it even if the satellite is dead to their own commands

>And where do you get the money to pay them to be willing to expose themselves to being royally fucked?
By having a job in the West. You're clearly not aware of how bad the pay gap is between West and East.

>It's not like you can sell satellite service out of a stolen Chinese satellite
Not publicly, no. But can you not think of a few groups or organisations on the planet who might have a need for encrypted/non-regulated satellite communication?

>How do you even find out who to contact?
Visiting places, talking to people, networking. A guy who knows a guy who knows a guy..

>Are you going to Linked In and email spamming every engineer that works for the company?
Silly question and you already know the answer.

>Do you develop the control tools yourself?
What makes you think I work alone?

>How do you make the satellite stop responding to the owners commands?
A lot of satellites have software for running drills and simulations to check if propulsion, attitude control, etc. are responsive. Can't very well send a satellite into a dive to check whether it can go back up. Simply put, the satellite just does that but it appears as an actual event and not a simulation. That is how you report engine failure and subsequent fall to the Earth.

>How do you prevent them from detecting the satellite is still sending data when it's supposedly dead?
By moving it, changing its height, encryption, frequency it transmits on, etc. there's many ways to do it. There's a lot of junk up there, too.

> I would guess there's a recovery module that always responds as long as the satellite got power, and that they can still receive data if they point an antenna to it even if the satellite is dead to their own commands
They have to know where to point. And every part of the satellite's software can be modified and changed. It has to be, because they cannot send a person to do it, so everything has to be done remotely. Including upgrading, installing, removing of software/firmware.

You could ride share on one of the smallsat launchers. However, licensing all the shit needed will be prohibitively expensive. LEO cubesat will also spend a lot of time away from your antenna and its orbit will decay in few months.

I’m kinda hoping this isn’t a LARP. Never considered people hijacking satellites before, it’s some real cyberpunk shit. How did you fall into this line of “work”?

>By having a job in the West. You're clearly not aware of how bad the pay gap is between West and East.
Well, how much do you pay them? The pay gap in general is bad sure, but not that bad for engineers. And any spies would be facing tens of years of prison if they were to be found out. I would guess it's upwards of 50k assuming you don't get scammed, something not everybody working in the west can drop on a hobby, but if you're also profiting from it ok.

>Not publicly, no. But can you not think of a few groups or organisations on the planet who might have a need for encrypted/non-regulated satellite communication?
Surely not state actors, because they have enough SATCOM already, and I'd guess human trafickers and narcs would rather use burner (satellite and the regular kind) phones, with or without encryption, rather than use some shady guy's service with bad coverage because he only has 3 or 4 mismatched satellites, but ok.

>Visiting places, talking to people, networking. A guy who knows a guy who knows a guy.
Sounds hard because of the language barrier, and because it would be hard for a random western guy to make contacts who know people who work at those companies and get them to cooperate without somebody blowing the whistle, but ok.

(cont)
>What makes you think I work alone?
It was just a question, so I guess the answer is no.

>By moving it, changing its height
Satellites move from their orbits pretty slowly dude, the thrusters they have (if they have them at all and not just reaction wheels) are very weak because they're designed only for attitude changes. And if they're near their EOL they wouldn't have much fuel left anyways. They wouldn't be hard to track visually based on overhead passes or with a telescope for geosynchronous satellites, or just through radio for a known frequency.
And there's no antenna directional enough that you can just point the satellite at a particular place on earth. For LEO satellites you might be able to turn it away every time it goes away from view, not sure if you could do it fast enough to prevent China receiving the signal when it passes over it though.

>encryption
They'd still be able to notice a sharp peak in the radio spectrum, not to mention encryption is probably implemented in hardware.

>frequency it transmits on, etc.
I'd guessed the transmitters are only capable of transmitting on a narrow band to save on tuning hardware and antenna design (which implies additional weight, space and complexity), but ok.

>There's a lot of junk up there, too.
Not actively transmitting, and large pieces of junk identifiable as artificial satellites are registered in catalogues available online.

>They have to know where to point.
Again, visual and radio tracking. Maybe even radar.

>And every part of the satellite's software can be modified and changed. It has to be, because they cannot send a person to do it, so everything has to be done remotely. Including upgrading, installing, removing of software/firmware.
And that's exactly why you include a hardware module that can't be bricked by software, whether just by error or a rogue engineer/sabouteur. Anyone who works with firmware in expensive one-off hardware knows to include at least one recovery method that works no matter what, so you aren't left with a super expensive but useless brick at the end of the day.

>How do you make the satellite stop responding to the owners commands?
>A lot of satellites have software for running drills and simulations to check if propulsion, attitude control, etc. are responsive.
Ok, sounds reasonable.

>Can't very well send a satellite into a dive to check whether it can go back up.
I guess you meant "can", but fine.

>Simply put, the satellite just does that but it appears as an actual event and not a simulation.
Ok? There's no reason that would imply it would stop responsing to the owner's commands, and it's not like they would give up trying to establish contact just because the telemetry last time showed the satellite modified its attitude by itself and the thrusters fired in a retrograde fashion for no reason. On the contrary, they'd be desperately working to save it.

>That is how you report engine failure and subsequent fall to the Earth.
Now I know for sure it's a larp.
First off, nobody calls a small thruster an "engine" when it's just a valve that squirts hypergolic fuel into a rocket chamber and it doesn't even have a turbopump.

A satellite is not a plane, if in LEO the orbit can be sustained for years without propulsion, some rockets don't even have any kind of propulsion at all. If it's on geosynchronous orbit then it will be in space for thousands of years.
And if we're talking about LEO and by "engine failure" you mean the engine turns on continuously for no reason, then we're obviously talking about that being reported but not actually happening (because then you would be left with no satellite, duh). If that happened the engineers on the company wouldn't say "meh, the thing's done, let's pack up and go home guys" when they can see the sat at night with their own eyes. They'd be working on investigating what happened and trying to regain control", which again doesn't explain the question that you were trying to answer how would you make the satellite stop responding to the owners commands.
So all your explanation amounts to "make the sat report it's dead, change frequencies, firmware and then move the thing about to prevent them from finding it", which first it wouldn't work because you simply can't hide shit in space (especially with known orbits), and two, the satellite reporting one thing and then doing something else moving about by itself would likely involve government agencies with a lot more resources than the company who owns the thing, which would imply they'd at least find out the satellite's new frequency and that it's sending encrypted signals, and probably find out the guy who sold the industrial secrets too.

>69115402
Nope, he's just a retard who should go back to /x/.

I read in a tech magazine that there are companies that launch shit for money but they only do low orbit.

If you want to play around, try amsat or something. If you want to use the real stuff and make it a career you pretty much have to start out in the military.
Tracking would be a pain in the ass and weather will fuck you over
That user is full of shit.
It’s a larp. His answers are missing some key information about how communications satellites work. An hour of internet research and he would have been much more convincing.

>His answers are missing some key information about how communications satellites work
such as? what would you have said differently if you were him?

Are you the larper? Tell us what bands and what kind of equipment you are using for a start.

>>what are cubesats
>retards
You still need to go through tons of red tape to be able to launch shit into space.
Fun fact: Did you know the closest we've EVER come to nuclear armegeddon was because some Norwegian launched a hobbyist rocket? We were literally a button press away from nuclear war.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident
And again, if anyone was allowed to launch junk into space it would be just add extra garbage into space, which is currently IMPOSSIBLE to deal with. Space debris can land lock us and make it impossible to launch satellites into space. That's why there are very strict international regulations on who and what can be launched into space.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
Just because some universities and companies are able to launch cubesats doesn't mean you'll get green lighted. You could still try I guess, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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not him. but the conversation raised some interesting issues
would somebody be able to hijack a satellite and re-program it so the original owner wouldn't be able to get in, or is there a recovery module that would always work as the other user said? wouldn't that imply if the keys are leaked then there's no way to secure the satellite, since it could always be hacked again by anyone with access to the factory programmed keys?
how wide is the spectrum the satellite would physically be able to use if re-programmed? enough to shift the frequencies so the original owner couldn't tune into it anymore?
would it be possible to move a satellite out of its original orbit enough so that the owner couldn't find it anymore?

Oh I guess I was wrong about the rocket. It was actually scientific. Either way the point is launching shit on rockets into high altitudes without making absolutely sure every country around you knows what's going on is a great way to get in deep shit.

I'd be really surprised if satellites didn't require some kind of authentication key to control.

Older satellites were just dumb analogue repeaters if I remember correctly.Newer ones are all properly encrypted so using them is pretty much impossible

I saw a PDF floating around somewhere on Jow Forums a few years ago about interfacing with satellites. I know it had "sky" in the title. "Hacking [word] in the sky" I think. I don't remember.
I don't want to search for it, I don't have a VPN or anything.

>weebtard being retarded
color me surprised
>You still need to go through tons of red tape to be able to launch shit into space.
For launching ROCKETS, yes. For including your cubesat on a pre-existing rocket launch, as long as it's up to spec with nothing weird or dangerous on it (mainly pyrotechnics) and there are available positions to ride along then it's just an issue of having the money.
>Fun fact: Did you know the closest we've EVER come to nuclear armegeddon was because some Norwegian launched a hobbyist rocket?
That's a sub-orbital rocket that reached 1400km (remember, the ISS flies at about 400km), a WAY different beast than a cube-sat, and it wasn't a hobby rocket, it was launched from a commercial launch site. It was barely a step down from a commercial orbital rocket.
And it wasn't the closest we ever came to nuclear war. That'd be the 1983 false alarm incident.
Of course a hobbyist isn't going to be launching something into orbit, the highest a team of hobbyists (which really means "not a company" since they probably were professional engineers being sponsored by for-profit companies) were able to reach in sub-orbital flight is about 100km.

maybe it was about decoding tv or weather signals, for shit like that there's a lot of information out there

Let’s just say some fatass larper on Jow Forums isn’t going to control a satellite with his thinkpad. Anything you do to a satellite without permission will be noticed.

>there are available positions to ride along then it's just an issue of having the money.
Source? Is Space X giving cheap flights now to over the top hobbyists or something? I don't think Russia is going to give some nobody from the West a ride on their rockets after all.

>And it wasn't the closest we ever came to nuclear war. That'd be the 1983 false alarm incident.
Russia's nuclear launch system was put into effect and was literally on the final step of the procedure where Russia was a single button press away from launching.
youtube.com/watch?v=nwqZ5AR2q5w I'll plug this video instead of some article because it's a good, comfy channel and he deserves more exposure.
Reading into your incident, I can see why you'd say that's the closest. But with the Norwegian Rocket Incident it's worth remembering that the only thing between Yeltsin and a nuclear launch was a button press. Though in both cases it seems like no one actually believed it was truly a nuclear attack, obviously seeing as we're still around to talk about it.
Then again you could also argue the incident with Vasili Arkhipov, where he stopped his commanding officer from launching a nuclear attack on the US without orders, is the closest we've come to nuclear armageddon.
Honestly I guess I'm wrong. There's too many close calls to say any one of them is "the closest".

It was about hacking them from what I remember.

>Anything you do to a satellite without permission will be noticed
How so? Do they have multiple ground stations over the world to provide real time logging?

Nice try chang

The satellite itself would probably just do the logging and send that info back to Earth. Perhaps it's even possible for the satellite to give some rudimentary location.

>Is Space X giving cheap flights now to over the top hobbyists or something?
They're providing flights for up to spec cubesats for anyone who's willing to pay up. Never said it's cheap or hobbyists are able to afford it.
>I don't think Russia is going to give some nobody from the West a ride on their rockets after all
You don't need Russia. Cubesats go in the leftover space in the rocket that isn't enough to fit in a real satellite, as long as it doesn't make the total weight too much to reach the required orbit for the flight.
I don't know if Russia does it, probably not.

>There's too many close calls to say any one of them is "the closest".
Yeah fair enough

>It was about hacking them from what I remember.
That could mean "gain unauthorized access to information sent by the satellite", which is what cracking into satellite tv streams would be about, even tho it's a kinda boring type of hacking.

>Never said it's cheap or hobbyists are able to afford it.
I saw something like $9000 earlier in the thread. That's "cheap" to me considering how much you need to launch normally.
I didn't know SpaceX was doing this though, so I'll admit I was wrong.

That's just for the launch, but you also need to buy the titanium frame for it and other expensive shit so it ends costing a lot more.

Still better than hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars.

>Perhaps it's even possible for the satellite to give some rudimentary location.
They can,but the info is useless if the nigga transmitting is in a dense urban area.Spies have been using satellites to transmit bursts of data since the 80's, and only a few have been captured. Locating the source of a short burst of data in an urban area is extremely difficult even with today's tech.

If you had all the design documentation and equipment to communicate with the satellite then it wouldn't be too hard to write a new firmware and flash it while the satellite is going over Africa or whatever and finish before it's reached another ground station again. Make it go dormant for a couple years or whatever and re-gain control after the owners assumed it's dead and forgot about it.

Just use the internet
Wouldn’t be too hard for who?

If you are lucky you can actually rideshare for 40k with something like a 1U CubeSat.

This leaves you with a budget of 10k to build the satellite which is actually not unrealistic. Your CubeSat just has to pass the shake test and then you are good to go.
Bear in mind you can probably only launch into a 500 km sun-synchronous orbit from this, this means you have to wait for your CubeSat to fly over your part of the earth. This means you cannot communicate with it 24/7.

A nice thing about using antennas in space is that when you can communicate, you are usually in direct line of sight. Antennas are insanely efficient when you only have to send stuff through the atmosphere, compared to having to send through walls.
This means you only need a 1-1.5W antenna for broadcasting in space.

Actually most countries just require your LEO satellite's orbit to burn up in the atmosphere in less than 24 years.
Usually it's put in an orbit that allows that. Unless you fly with some shitty Indian launch provider.

I'm pretty sure anyone experienced with assembly and software defined radio could do it in less than a year. Again, having all the necessary documentation and keys which he claimed to have through industrial espionage.
Sure, the way he described on how to do it and how to make money from it sounds retarded, but assuming you could convince a high level engineer to give you that information without anyone else finding out, he doing it successfully (I suppose they take measures against data exfiltration, but considering Manning managed to leak thousands of documents on a rewritable cd, those aren't always effective), and having the time to write and test the malware and money for various expenses such as hardware and transportation (probably gonna have to smuggle the hardware through various countries), I think you would have a fairly decent chance of success.

>update firmware
>bug in new firmware which doesn't let you upload new firmware or boot

thank u firmware updates

Huelanders have been haxing milsats for awhile...

That's why it'd be kinda interesting to know what kind of recovery modules those satellites have in case a bug bricks it, and if those can be bricked too and you'd be left with a multi million dollar space paperweight
If you want to be able to fix your authentication code in case a vulnerability is found, you would have to do it that way. And even if you burn the code into ROM and only keep the possibility of changing the key, you still could lose the key and be unable to log in ever again.

Interesting, I'll look into that

What kind of hacking? Unauthorized transmission?

yeah, apparently they use non encrypted UHF satellite repeaters to chitchat among themselves, with the large jungle and all that. I wouldn't call it 'hacking' per se, just transmitting on unauthorized frequencies
sounds kinda comfy if it wasn't illegal, you could have packet radio too and build a bootleg internet without the propagation issues of short wave

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Forget super elon's meme companies.

If you ever want to launch something for real contact Russia.

is there any WebSDR page where I can tune in to this?

You could probably build a cube sat for half of that.
However launching it into space usually costs a couple of million.
The other problem is due to the cost restrictions, your satellite most likely won't be released into a geostationary orbit and the satellite won't have any attitude control keep it there.

All commercial commsat systems I've worked on intentionally did NOT have writable memory for the operating system. No firmware or software updates possible. Some of the larger research platforms have it, but nothing iridium or Inmarsat or Intelsat put up in the last generation is 'reprogrammable'. Operating system functions at least. However, they're also really easy to talk to (beacons, telem, etc). Commanding generally doesn't require crypto but you need to get the format of the command exactly right or it just ignores them.
t. ATK employee

If you want to get into satcom, get your amateur radio license.
There are sats that the ham community has launched, and you can use them.

Interesting.
It's always funny how you can always find people on here working on the most obscure shit even if the most complex thing 99% of people here have worked on is ricing their Linux desktop.

>It was about hacking them from what I remember.

There was a black hat talk about this subject in 2014 with an update in 2018.
blackhat.com/us-18/briefings/schedule/index.html#last-call-for-satcom-security-11192

However there was an older talk about analogue sats and inmar sat that I can't seem to find now.