What is so wrong with systemd that makes Jow Forums hate it so much?

because its gay

I don't hate it. It's free software, it just works and I've never run into a issue because of it.

Jow Forums is full of sheep. Enough said.

>Successful
What? Did it win an emmy or something?

based
all you need to know:
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

It's bloated.
It has a history of security problems.
Its lead developer has a history of locking perfectly legitimate issue threads, so problems go unfixed.

What's sad is that, as an init daemon, it's amazing. Fast as fuck compared to openrc and sysvinit. The problems with systemd all have to do with its feature creep.

that it's old and it doesn't get updates daily

lol this
slightly less fast than other init systems and because I have a old computer I'm trying to make it as fast as possible.

well at least he wasn't shilling for wayland

Wayland is better than xorg.

eli5

is this the same systemd bootloader that I use because i could not get grub to work for shit

he said waylad was better because it's new and it gets updated frequently

nonsense if you ask me, Xorg is stable on every distro, Wayland is still alpha state, but it will be the future, still, not the present.

Wayland is garbage and so is Xorg.

what's the logic behind that?

Wayland is perfectly usable depending on your compositor. There's some edge Xorg features it doesn't cover yet, but fundamentally it is much superior to Xorg's horrendous design.

>t. posted from w3m

Wayland can't into touchpads

This isn't a wayland issue. It's a compositor issue. I believe wlroots handles touchpads just fine. Unsure about KDE or GNOME. GNOME is pretty much always garbage though, so you should ignore it anyway.

Like for example?

Attached: agentsmith.png (639x278, 94K)

I have some free software I have written, I would like you to install it on your machine and run it with the fullest privileges please. Email?

Xorg is stable and functions but it is fundamentally fucked up from it's very foundations and is way past the point where any of that could be fixed. It needs to replaced entirely and Wayland is the only feasible route forward unless you plan on writing something yourself.

its all a lie, Xorg is not fucked up at all, the implementation is fine and everything works like intended.
They want to make a "secure" implementation but what they don't tell you is that it would take all your freedoms away. Its an Android meme all encapsulated and controlled by a safe environment but you shouldn't want that because apps have to work with each other to extract the maximum potential in a very fragmented community

Xorg doesn't even fucking do any rendering anymore. It's an nonsensical middleman.

>what they don't tell you is that it would take all your freedoms away
It's free as in freedom software you mong.

i've been using linux for a number of years and sysv init always worked fine for me. i understood what it was doing, usually. it was simple enough to understand so that when something went wrong i could at least find my way to the root issue, sometimes fix it quickly.
with systemd all i see is this unnecessary layer of obfuscation and a whole new paradigm to learn just to admin my own systems. i didn't ask for it, i don't need it, but i have little recourse to do anything about it. these are principles that go directly agains the idea of open systems: customer and user choice, compatibility with existing systems via unencumbered standards, transparency throughout the stack, among other things.
maybe some big enterprise customers demanded it. the fact that it was forced through to so many distros because of this left sour taste in my mouth.

Xorg is not supposed to innovate, they made graphical Linux possible, and that's it, Wayland will be ready soon, just don't freaking bully Xorg, most of you are using it at this very moment with no issues

>i have little recourse to do anything about it.

Install BSD, fuck Linux these days.

Units

>it would take all your freedoms away.
...how, exactly? I don't know what the fuck you're talking about here.

how you manage your devices for example
having everything under pid1
its not a bootloader it never was one

>how you manage your devices for example
Nobody asked systemd to swallow udev into it.

>It's free as in freedom software you mong.
stop being a parrot, freedom is as free as the infrastructure you play in allows it.

Its hard to explain, but for me the whole ecosystem collapses under wayland.
You can actually install KDE and i3wm and its would work fine.
You can send commands to certain windows, hide them for example with just a short cut
Everything can be done theres no actual restriction but your imagination, switching to wayland kills those tools making my distro just another Android or Windows computer.

one of those tools would be xdotool read about why its not possible to implement in wayland

I feel like what you're saying here is, "Wayland is infringing on my freedoms because my preferred WM would need to be rewritten."

Moving from Xorg to Wayland is a far stretch from turning *nix into "just another Android or Windows computer", don't be fucking retarded dude.

>freedom is as free as the infrastructure you play in allows it
What?

>You can actually install KDE and i3wm and its would work fine.
There's actually work to integrate KDE with Sway (i3 clone for wayland).

>xdotool
Yeah because letting any xorg client read/send keystrokes to any other xorg client is totally a good design. Something like this isn't inherently impossible on Wayland, but someone would have to write a tool for it.

>my preferred WM would need to be rewritten.

(same poster here) Also, fuck window managers - rewrite the goddamn things if that's what needs to be done, and if rewriting yours is such a fucking gigantic nightmare then maybe it was a piece of shit to begin with.

>Yeah because letting any xorg client read/send keystrokes to any other xorg client is totally a good design.
then you understood 0% of what i tried to explain to you, its a lost cause, use what ever you want.

but all of this for what purpose?
is Wayland so powerfull and innovative that we have to drop years of work? i don't think so

>X feature doesn't work on Wayland therefore my freedom is being stolen
No you retard. Also, it is not a "feature" than any xorg can trivially read/send input to another xorg client. That's a security nightmare.

To do something similar on Wayland, someone would have to write a protocol for it (and hopefully the programs that use it have sane security measures), but it's not inherently impossible.

yep, for the record I use xdotool for speech to code. Not having a replacement with wayland isnt just an academic sperg contention for me. Please devs if you're out there, figure something out.

I don't like it, I think it's overly complex and I disagree with many of the design choices.

That said, I don't understand the hate it gets, nor much of the criticism.

What it tries to create is a standard for base OS functionality used with the Linux kernel, which would bring Linux alongside with systems like the BSD's, OSX, Windows, which distribute this functionality as part of their base OS.

The idea is good, the implementation leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion. Eventually it will be replaced by another better solution.

we have this thread every week, lennart
YES I KNOW ITS YOU BEHIND THE POSTS POETTERING

>security nightmare
I see user empowerment

Too monolithic, and apparently the devs have done some shady shit. Just reading the wikipedia page told me this.

Oh I get it. You may benefit from this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy

"Years" is not a valid qualifier of "work". I could spend years diligently shoving grapes up my asshole and then farting them out at a target until I could hit it with 90% reliability, but the fact that it took me years doesn't magically make it a valid endeavor.

Xorg is a 15+ year old system still carrying the baggage of 90's linux bullshit in it. It sucks. The fact that so much of our current code base needs/expects it is an example of our own collective failure, not evidence of Xorg's sucklessness.

Is full of CIAniggers spamming about systemd for one

suck my balls: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

Go for it, reinvent the wheel, i wait until its done and see you people reaching the same old conclusions, if i would try to predict anything about wayland is that someone will create a middle man with a defined protocol making the whole point of wayland irrelevant. everyone will adopt those "new" rules just to make their apps usable.

Probably a backdoor, whether intentionally or inadvertant... And what everyone else said too.

not true. Funnily enough, going to Wayland fixed my touchpad issues

Or inserting data as well.

>bullshit from wikipedia
Yeah no one is buying it kid, time to pack up and go back to plebbit where you can jerk off to electron JS or some shit.

probably thanks to a Xorg backport

Design Principles exist for a reason, and are violated for reasons...

Out of curiosity, who was President when systemd was introduced?

>Initial release:30 March 2010; 8 years ago

>Xorg backport to a wayland compositor
Are you drunk?

>XWayland teleports behind you

>XWayland having anything to do with managing device inputs
You're drunk mate.

Agreed. This thread was a setup. :/

That's blatantly false and precisely why I'm using gnome. The screen tearing is retardedly unbearable and Compton basically rapes cpu.

Hell libinput on mutter is much more usable than in xorg.

Terry would be ashamed.

>retards are unironically defending the "systemd" of windowing servers

This is some sad levels of delusion. Also some of you. kids should get real jobs and learn basic shit like rpc. systemd and all of freedesktop are doing good by defining actual interfaces where people can actually query structured data and listen and handle events without layers of Linux, everything is an fd, bullshit.

>screen tearing
maybe you forgot to enable it?

>gnome
GNOME is terrible and refuses to implement basic Wayland protocols (ex. mpv has no decorations on GNOME because of this). Use KDE if you want a DE with Wayland.

You say this like it's bad. Decorators are stupid anyhow unless they have useful UI widgets.

And kde is segfaulty junk.

Is wayland good for ubuntu?

GNOME doesn't support zwp idle inhibit manager either (ex. so the screen doesn't blank with mpv). I believe you can work around it with some dbus GNOME thing they provide, but it's still retarded not not support upstream Wayland Protocols. Everyone else has support for this, but not GNOME. It's still an open ticket.
gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/20

It's not so much a matter of distro, but a matter of what Wayland compositor you use. However, you want to be using something fairly new that updates a lot since there is a lot of work and changes that have happened in the Wayland world over the years (ex. using Wayland in debian stable would be retarded).

The real reason is that the lead developer Lennart Poettering is a SJW. That's it. Every argument against systemd is debunked. All Jow Forums can do is attack his character.

Excellent. It sounds like what I have been looking for
So what are the downsides of systemd?

rio > *