the key on the left is PBT and doesn't discolor with age the key on the right is ABS from early 90s.
ABS goes yellow with age for just latent room UV light not even if direct sunlight UV gets into room and makes it go yellow.
did they improve ABS over time and it still doesn't do this. I have some cheap china made white keyboard from 2016 or some thing that is arctic white will it go yellow eventually? it has double shot keys if that matter not really worried about the keycaps more the frame that is this very pure white.
did china change the plastic they use or put some thing in the ABS that stops it doing this or used some hybrid plastic or some thing?
I have a CRT monitor for instance from Philips 2005 era 109b6 and I think its made of PBT because it has the strange off white gray look and I don't think it will go yellow..
if you're not aware of the composition of the material, you're most likely going to have to break some of it in order to find out then you can test it chemically or observe the characteristics of its failure and whether that is more consistent with the first material or the second
Nicholas Barnes
ABS is soluable in acetone, PBT not.
Matthew Sullivan
because yellow looks ugly as fuck.
of course the items i am worried about are very cheap a 20$ red clone keyboard and a 7$ mouse bungie both made in white plastic. i could just buy like 5 of them and leave them in box for future but wondering if that's necessary or if the materials have improved even for cheap stuff.
the oldest plastic stuff i know that goes yellow is the PSone white controller from like 2001 or some thing and the WMO 1.1a white mouse from 2001 also. i haven't seen many photos of tech past this point that have gone yellow but then white stuff has gone out of popularity and every thing is black now any way.
my white WMO went yellow in like 5years or so. not even sitting in direct sunlight
Adrian Bailey
actually the wmo went slightly yellow in maybe 3years desu now i think about it. but super yellow around the time i was playing wow in 2006
Noah Kelly
>builds handmade endgame 500$ custom made mechanical keyboard.. end up looking like worthless 80s vomit after 2 years.
Jaxon Brown
Not only UV, heat too.
Charles Reed
can you tell by just looking at the plastic and comparing it to a photo or some thing? or some logo on the regulation icons?
Adam Lee
Only useful post ITT.
Gavin Fisher
why because you only care about stupid technical data and not that it goes yellow.
you cant clean the yellow off with acetone you need to bleach it which makes it look all fucked up and cloudy and non uniform often.
Jeremiah Robinson
it's a way to test it and easily with readily available cheap chemicals. find a spot that's not visible and see if it acetone melts it at all.
Nathaniel Bennett
but do we know if ABS has improved or other plastics exist that might melt but still not go yellow.
I just cant find many examples of plastic from last 15years that has gone yellow because its just not been a popular color or people have not kept things longer than 3-4years.
Joshua Moore
I just trim a thin sliver off an inconspicuous spot. Back of a keycap, lip if a case piece etc.
>bleach No wonder you're getting shitty results, you're supposed to use peroxide you dense cunt.
>how can I most easily distinguish A from B >here's how you can most easily distinguish A from B >WOW WHO CARES, FUCK OFF NERD
Mason Bailey
where I live we say "bleach ya hair" when we mean peroxide ya hair.
I mean peroxide..
Cooper Murphy
The yellowing is caused by a Bromine derived compound used for the stabilisation of ABS against embrittling due to UV degradation, it leeches from the plastic causing this yellowing.
I've got a Wii that was left in its stand in a sunny spot for many years, top is yellowing, bottom is white.
Bleach does contain peroxides but not normally above 5% of its v/v.
Jace Wood
they are not good photos I bet the other sides of the cases or on close inspection under natural light its blotchy.
its fine obviously if you don't mind but its not a perfect finish on close inspection that photo is made by a larper.
Benjamin Fisher
ABS is literally a chemical compound, acrylonitrile butadiene styrene. Apart from dyes to make it different colours, you change anything about it's composition and it is no longer ABS. It is exactly as it was 30 years ago.
Can you provide cut edge cross sectional images? As they say, beauty is only skin deep.
Connor Taylor
i haven't seen anything since around 2000-2005ish that still yellows in the way old pc's and peripherals used to but a lot of thing moved away from the cheaper white plastic. I remember reading an article about someone solving the yellowing problem old stuff used to have, but I have no idea if it made it to market. with chinese made things there might be more of a gamble and maybe things like cheaper vacuums, utilitarian items, etc.
those results are fantastic, the 'lock' is the only part that seems to have a cloudy, non-uniform look.
Christian Stewart
I do have enough spare 5.25 coverplates to do it, but its irrelevant. You're not looking at whats happening .2mm beneath the surface, are you?
Yeah, it happens when you spread the peroxide too thin on the part it seems. You can actually run a second round of peroxide and get rid of the blooming, but I have few fucks to give about that Acer, I'll get to it one day.
ive seen plastic chairs and cheap shit go yellow in sun since then.
honestly think the reason is they simply don't make white plastic stuff any more.
PBT cant be perfectly white if you have some thing perfectly white it probably is ABS and will go yellow in 3years time.
Elijah Gutierrez
Lol, why you keep deleting your posts you salty cunt? I mean it's great that you are realising how retarded you are and deleting your shit, but, ya know, maybe re-read your posts before you submit or something?
yeah, it looks like the plastic might be a bit tight on that piece. maybe because of he shape.
is that a uv light to help catalyze the reaction? is it too slow or weak to do without it...meaning is it worth the trouble, or even necessary to set it up that way? not implying it isn't, just surprised it's so involved.
Jayden Young
Yeah it is, accelerates the chemical process which allows the peroxide to break down the bromine that leeches out. 8bit guy etc. use a sun exposure method but the heat can dry the peroxide, which unto itself can cause blooming as I discovered on my first test run with some cover plates. It can also warp thin plastics. This method takes 48 hours because my 60w UV lamps don't have shit on the sun, but its basically set and forget at least.
It turns out heat can also be a catalyst, 8bit guy has a video where he drops a bunch of key caps into a pot of approximately 20/80 peroxide solution/water and heats it at 70C for 3 or 4 hours, which also produces excellent results. Keen to try it for smaller parts like drive faces, key caps etc, just need to get a laser thermometer so I can keep an accurate eye on temperatures. Much easier than trying to cling wrap shit and keep a good coating of creme on everything.
can we stop talking about fixing the problem and just answer if china still uses this plastic that goes yellow on cheap shit?> I have white lego bricks that have never gone yellow and are fucking old like 25years and they are apparently ABS so I assume not all ABS goes yellow.
Jack Howard
if you're going to go as far as making a dedicated 'tanning bed' for this, why not something like; - some kind of large container that can take water, handle 70C, and hold larger items - an electric water jug, dismantled so the element is exposed - a microcontroller/rpi/whatever - a temperature sensor do i even need to explain what to do with these items?
Zachary Collins
Actually, rereading this, the thought occurs that a combination of the suns heat and the UV is what speeds up the process. I should add a 100W lamp to my box and see if that speeds up the process some.
I already answered your question. > ABS is literally a chemical compound, acrylonitrile butadiene styrene. Apart from dyes to make it different colours, you change anything about it's composition and it is no longer ABS. It is exactly as it was 30 years ago.
Gavin Peterson
Not at all, I could prolly use the bottom of a 55 gallon drum. Neat idea user.
Caleb Rivera
solubility is an inherent property of ABS and PBT. if it doesn't dissolve in acetone, it's not ABS. if it does dissolve, it's not PBT. simple as that.
Jeremiah Edwards
from what i've read, it's not that ABS inherently goes yellow over time, it's the old fire retardant they added to it that did or caused it to
honestly, if i needed to explain further, you probably shouldn't be fucking with an exposed water heater, and hand-making a relay circuit to control mains power
Carter Howard
oh it was some thing they added to ABS.
that makes sense I guess. thanks you only one here with comprehension.
Blake Martinez
Actually, now I'm thinking, I threw out a first gen Mac Mini a few weeks ago that had yellowing of the top plastics, seems like the same rules apply. Pic related was not mine.
> from what i've read, it's not that ABS inherently goes yellow over time, it's the old fire retardant they added to it that did or caused it to This, spooky chemistry happens to the butadiene (the fire retardant part of ABS) that causes it to brominate. Fucked if I know the exact mechanism, but there seems to be info about if you google "butadine bromination" and can get your head around the results.
ohk well first gen mac mini is fucking old. white macbooks didn't go yellow maybe the laws changed on what they had to fire proof.
I feel fairly confident my 2016 era china white plastic wouldn't have fire retardant in a cheap keyboard and mouse bungie they would prob use the cheapest plastic they can find and not some fire retardant stuff. hopefully they stay good.
Andrew Diaz
$500 End game? My ideal end game is like $2500. Also someone isn't gonna fuck up like that for an end game keeb.
Jose Morales
actually, i wonder if there's something that already has a suitable temperature control on it first thing that comes to mind is a deep fryer, but i doubt you could find something that goes down to 70C, might be an easy thing to modify with your own microcontroller though, since it already has the sensors and relays needed
Bentley Gomez
yes they are all double shot keys are abs you retard you cant have PBT double shot has to be dye sub letters.
also how the fuck do you spend 2grand on a keyboard. most expensive thing im considering lately is a 1grand HermanMiller chair that has a 12year warrenty and literally lasts 40years. but a keyboard will fail in like 5years even if you think its perfect.
Joseph Clark
>a keyboard will fail in like 5years even if you think its perfect. tell that to my boring dell ps/2 keyboard which is older than half of Jow Forums (18yo this year)
Leo Thomas
you haven't used it for 5years strait you idiot.
Brandon Myers
Well it would cost that because I'd be making the most reliable fucking Hall effect switches in existence, also custom case/thicc keycaps. Haven't really budgeted the case too much as I haven't fully designed it but the switches are fuckin costly. Also I'm planning for this to be working longer then ill live.
Easton Green
I dunno man, ABS is one of the cheapest plastics out there, and just because chinks are cheap does not mean the countries they export to or the companies they manufacture for have the same lax safety requirements.
I'd prefer to build it from the ground up so it's fit for purpose. I have most of what I need floating around in my bits boxes anyway. Just need maybe a stove or kettle element. Should be a snap.
I don't think I have ever had a rubber dome keyboard fail on me.
that's the price of a control panel in a US battleship that has a trackball in it as well and the military would still replace it every 3years and throw the old one out. shit brakes man. the reason they use Hall effect isn't because it never brakes its because if the room fills with dust or fire or ash the keys still work.
Nicholas Sanders
yes, i have it's been my main desktop keyboard for about 15 years, and will be until i can no longer get a motherboard with a ps/2 port on it speaking of, RIP my soundblaster live! 24bit pci, 2003-2018, the motherboard i got last year has no pci slots :(
Dominic Nguyen
>pic oh nice, hope to see a thread about it
Alexander Ross
I tried using a pci-to-pcie adaptor with my 1998 soundblaster it works sorta but the sound is really metallic and distorted with the KX driver. possible some Russians on that forum have fixed the problem now probably just some power shit with the adaptor.
Joshua Garcia
I understand that most of the price is just because I don't have access to such tools to manufacture the parts. Also I know stuff dies that why I have redundant sensors and stuff. Also it's is likely ill never make it mostly just a project to work on in spare time.
Hunter Morales
regardless of what you make you will be rebuilding it and changing the circuit board every 5years. so keep that in mind. the idea you can make some thing that ya hands touch every day 10thousands of times last forever is just wrong just make sure nothing that fails ease in it like switches or pcb is expensive.
Joseph Roberts
>I don't think I have ever had a rubber dome keyboard fail on me. na, they're pretty resilient if you don't count $2 chink shit my dell keyboard has a slightly-loose enter key, A and S are partly smudged, and ... most of the keys are shiny, but otherwise it works just fine, even the spacebar is nice and firm still
