Is Linux worth it?

i really wish he made games I wanted to play, but I love hearing that man talk.

Good code is getting written only if it gets paid. Corporations have no interest in desktop linux, therefore it would remain a meme.

What does any of this have to do with Arch? I agree with the guys statement completely, and have said the same things here, myself. I mean look at Jow Forums as a cross-section of the Linux community and you'll see systemd haters, people complaining about each and every improvement made, shit flinging over desktop environments and distros, you name it, the bitches will find a way to spin it negatively. We'll never get anywhere with the clusterfuck we have. We need something like an official Linux Foundation distro that aims to be usable for general purposes.

>hurrrrr guys I told you linux is shit uuuugh
they knew the stats, they knew of the problems and they still went on with developing it on Linux, so the only retards here is them

If would require dropping all DEs, but one. I don't think thats possible with such fragmentation.

% of crashes and support tickets despite being somehow it's the user's fault if they complain about your game not working

>made shit product
>blame the user
The state of 2018+1 developers

Well he did say Mac had similar problems.

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...

fuck off, microcuck
that's exactly what makes Linux good.
the competition and the fragmentation is good, it's literally what's best about it
what's an improvement for you isn't necessarily for every other user out there, some people actually use or develop on their OS

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Not true you can't just see the amount of shit code corporations have for that matter corporations do contribute to the Linux kernel a lot with people employed to contribute to it, usually drivers for their own products

jblow is the only CoD streamer im subbed to on twitch

Yeah, but you're forgetting how many possible variations in things like desktops and kernel versions there are.I can see how it would be annoying having to deal with all of that. Just look at what a crap-shoot installing Linux on a laptop can be. I think it may be time for a mainstream Linux distro, something along the lines of Ubuntu, that can be focused on reliability and utility, rather than being a smorgasboard for special snowflakes.

I'm not saying eliminate the other options or distros, I'm saying there should be a distro for making use of the most mainstream things.

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>that can be focused on reliability and utility, rather than being a smorgasboard for special snowflakes.
see that's literally just your opinion of ubuntu
for a majority of users, ubuntu is just the right thing already
>I can see how it would be annoying having to deal with all of that.
except you don't have to
fuck this Linus &C++ mentality of mandatory 60y/o retro-compatibility

>If you can make an exe that doesn't use libc, and talks to the kernel itself, you could probably ship something that works everywhere.
Whoa rewriting assembly for syscalls for each architecture sounds much better and portable!

I'm able to play Overwatch on Ultra with a solid 60fps. Though sometimes I get weird lag, and there are some games I can't play. it's far better than having microsofts dick up my ass.

Yeah, proposing a libc replacement is really retarded.

Worth what?
Worth giving up the buggy mess that is Windows?
Worth having to see your computer just werk for once?
Yeah I'd say so

This.

>Windows is a fucking mess to work with but nobody ever complains about it
Jblow and friends constantly shit on Windows.
AFAIK the only real objection to switching from it they have, aside from Windows being the main sales platform, is the atrocious debugger alternatives to Visual Studio (and they really hate visual studio), to the point that they were supporting several projects meant to replace it. (the most competent guy got hired for a professional debugger being worked on by RAD)

The problem is that there is a shitload of functionality provided by various freedesktop services that all sort of tie into eachother, but no DE implements them properly.

/thread
nobody cares about gaming on linux nor should they.

Isn't that what Ubuntu aims to provide

That's what they all say.

LOONIX is only worth it if your time is worthless. Ask for genuine Microsoft software.

>Good code is getting written only if it gets paid.
then why is linux itself (minus the desktop) so much more stable and polished than windows

radare2 is a great debugger tho

If you have to ask, then no. Please stay far away from my OS.

>stable
only if you're not running anything on it

>Just look at what a crap-shoot installing Linux on a laptop can be.
What are you talking about ? I've never had any problem installing any distro on several different brands of laptops. Everything works out of the box.

i disagree, i can run a great many things on linux without compromising its stability. my desktop also actually looks better than a windows desktop, but i'll give you a pass on that one because even i have to concede the beautiful desktop i choose to use is the exception to the rule when it comes to linux-oriented DEs.

>for each architecture
who the fuck is going to play video games on POWER9 and RISC-V?
You have TWO architectures.

I dont mean the stability of the OS I mean working with compatibility in linux is a nightmare as the OP points out

Linux itself (minus the desktop) is more stable than Windows simply because more time gets spent on it to stably run simple one-task daemon-style workloads that never touch wayland or an X11 server.

Linux is the microcontroller and FPGA of operating systems. If Kubernetes didn't prove that to you, maybe broken video games will.

Glibc is not an issue at all and it has nothing to do with graphics programming. And you can statically link it anyway. Also Linux is designed to make running propriety software painful, were his game open source distro maintainers would solve most of the problems themselves, as for the graphics drivers crashes, well, that's the state of the graphics drivers themselves, no amount of distro hopping will solve that. Before recently there wasn't even such a thing as "official open source GPU driver" but AMD is making progress. Fuck Nvidia though, there is one function necessary to make Optimus work properly and they refuse to open it.
>We need something like an official Linux Foundation distro
This is the solution. All it took was one company to make Linux dominate smartphones. And a lot of desktop Linux software needs to fuck right off too, at least x11, all poetteringware and gtk.

He makes a good point. There's nothing wrong with the Linux kernel, the problem is the userland. GNU dropping support for static linkage is a middle finger to binary compatibility and to userland quality in general. The same could be said for most of their software, really.

The biggest barrier to a no-GNU-userland Linux distro is the lack of a compiler that will make it convenient. Getting GCC to work as a statically-linking cross compiler, while also making it use musl or similar simultaneously, is almost fucking impossible, and clang is even worse. tcc is deprecated and has inadequate cross-toolchain support. The BSD userland, with just some tweaks to calling conventions, could potentially be utilized without too many headaches. It's smaller, simpler, and much cleaner.

that's literally ubuntu you retard, that's the entire fucking reason it exists

>linux users we're
absolutely upsetting

Nobody is particularly trying. Some give it a few jabs so they can complain how bad it is. On the other hand, they would rather feed the monopoly, because change, a healthy market, privacy, choice and all that comes with it can wait or are irrelevant to the public. The absolute clusterfuck that is Windows 10 proves this. So do the various leaks from Facebook and others. The computing world won't change until people are brought to the understanding that change can happen and that it is necessary. The moment a man is satisfied with a market is the moment it starts going downhill.

PA and PA:T were both running very poorly, unstable and so on on Windows too, and had extremely half-baked gameplay despite being able to copy most mechanics from better predecessor and spiritual predecessor titles.

So actually, maybe the team's competence was more of an issue than Linux. Not saying Linux is easy mode with how Nvidia and AMD fuck shit up, but actually this is a game that even could have worked even against a "supported by mesa assuming software rendering" baseline. Most effects were very basic.

not this mac worshipping retard again

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>The biggest barrier to a no-GNU-userland Linux distro is the lack of a compiler that will make it convenient
Wat. You can compile almost everything that is C/C++/ObjC/ ... just fine with llvm / clang, mostly even against libcxx.

We'll generally survive with keeping Fortran on GCC.

> Getting GCC to work as a statically-linking cross compiler, while also making it use musl or similar simultaneously, is almost fucking impossible, and clang is even worse.
Not really.

Also, you're entirely free to just make your software not too shitty so it builds on all Gentoo supported Archs against the current dynamic libs [at which point it will work on virtually all distros] or any number of other things that will not require statically linked binaries.

Have you ever tried rolling your own clang? It's fucking horrible. It takes forever to compile (thanks C++) and there's arbitrary dependencies out the ass.

Your realize "all Gentoo supported architectures" includes the fucking motorola 68000, right? I have no idea what you're even trying to convey in the second part, as if architecture has anything to do with linkage. I'm not sure you understand the difference between an ABI and a libc, let alone what it means to roll your own toolchain.

>Glibc is not an issue at all and it has nothing to do with graphics programming. And you can statically link it anyway.
You cannot statically link glibc

>Have you ever tried rolling your own clang?
Yes, on Gentoo. No problem.

> Your realize "all Gentoo supported architectures" includes the fucking motorola 68000, right?
Alright, the intersection between architectures your program wants to target and what Gentoo supports.

The whole point is that it supports almost everything to a rather decent extent.

> as if architecture has anything to do with
> roll your own toolchain
That's exactly how it's related. If it compiles on a bunch of the variants of possible toolchains there, you're good. The other distros will be able to get it working, too.

You can though:

sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/FAQ#Even_statically_linked_programs_need_some_shared_libraries_which_is_not_acceptable_for_me.__What_can_I_do.3F

If you have the source you can statically link it.

The fundamental problem for Linux and gaming, which is the premise of this thread, is API and support. There's just way too many distros of Linux and though there now DOES exist an API that can bring them together, said API is still very much in its infancy when it comes to adoption.

We're of course talking about the Vulkan API. It's platform agnostic and allows a developer to truly do some marvelous things with it. It IS difficult to leverage because in return for the seemingly massive jump upwards in performance, the consequence of poor implementation is equally significant.

Nonetheless. We have an API, it's fairly mature--but it just needs adoption. If 50% of the market adopted the Vulkan API there would be enough cause to then start releasing titles on Linux. When this happens, the total number of distros that are supported honestly would need to be whittled down to 2.

Something like:

Linux Mint & CentOS 7. That's it. Anyone else who bitches about should be in very polite terms, told to fuck right off; adapt or die--because the cost in human and technical capital to support every popular linux distro in even a single year is getting right up to the size and cost of developing the fucking game itself.

And to have that happen for each game would be insane. Most publishers have probably run these numbers with people way smarter than most of us, and have probably come to a conclusion similar to this. That the COST of supporting Linux & gaming is fucking absurd, and that its simply better to avoid that POTENTIAL market than deal with the sheer entitled bullshit present therein.

I like the platform and all the crazy things it offers, and the fact that there's thousands of different ways to approach a problem and there's no truly wrong solution. But games are not problems and as a buyer of them, you shouldn't have to play russian roulette with 3 bullets in the revolver in order to play.

>jblow
>mac worshipping retard
?

That one isn't nearly just a Linux issue. The procession of DirectX / OpenGL / Vulkan versions was one shit show across platforms.

> Anyone else who bitches about should be in very polite terms, told to fuck right off
Or the publishers could stop sucking dick and just publish the game in AppImage or whatever other comparable form that works across most distros.

If they prefer to instead not suck in dealing with dynamic libs, that's fine too. But they can't hope for my sympathy if they do the equivalent to a vendor of central heating neurotically demanding their own enclosed tamper proof room with the connections exactly in the standard location and facing west because they can't handle making any connector pieces that work and they don't want to do what everyone else (including even unpaid hobbyists with only some minutes a week) works with.

The real question is Windows / Mac worth it? Are they worth your privacy, freedom, money?

>adapt or die
Fuck off RedHat shill.

I don't care that Linux lacks fancy graphic APIs that would allow game devs to easily pump out trash

that's what happens now, and then they ship shit with static links against ubuntu's retarded-ass nonstandard binaries for everyhing.

TOP KEK. really is time to blame the programmers. what a surprise!

A computer should not be used for gaming. If you really wanted to game, buy a console for $200-$300. Why would you want to spend $2000+? Computers should only be used for other shit like programming which is considerably cheaper to build around.

Gamedev unfriendliness of linux is the primary reason i still use it. It keeps the worst kind of programmers out of the platform. They're worse than the bunch of masturbating webshitter SV monkies.
Case in point: OP's images are basically
>we wrote a shitty linux platform layer for our trash game because we are windows babies and have no clue (nor care) about linux ecosystem
>oh wow, so many bug reports from linux! totally the fault of linux, our shoddy programming has nothing to do with it because we've done over 9000 of it!

More like
>oh hey this is a problem let's all use the same charging cable, micro-usb

*meanwhile at apple*
>DUUURRRR HURRRR

uhh look up indie game the movie, hes literally a mac fag

These people are literal retards. SDL has existed for like 20 years at this point, use it. Valve games have good compatibility because they hired the SDL developer and tested their shit on a bunch of distros, and they ship an entire userland. If you don't want to put in the work to do that then release your source so others can do it. The traditional proprietary binary-only distribution method does not work on GNU/Linux and likely never will.

>my software doesn't work
>this is someone else's fault

how can someone be this stupid

often the case with pc development

>SDL
The only people who are literal retards is you.

it is extremely clear you spent all your points in DEX, please stop posting here.

This isn't /v/, go shill your unity and unreal trash there

...No ?

SDL is just a platform layer, everything is still shit on linux

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Accurate.

The game currently does not run on AMD open source drivers

It is functional only on nvidia and AMD proprietary.

I wanna Ragnarok troll but these faggots want me to install more nonfree software than I have to.

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Because it gets paid by corporations. I hope you don't think that it's still run by hobbyists?

Fukken this.

As much as a shitshow as Windows is, at least you can take a binary from ~1995 and run it unmodified on current releases.

Linux needs something like this, and no flatpack et al do not count.
This will never happen as long as API breaking GNOMEcancer style shit and it's ideology is still around. All the freedesktop shit needs thrown out and replaced with a Linus Torvalds style "if it breaks compatibility it is a bug" userspace.

t. long time Linux user.

Is this the right way to do it for proprietary games?
gist.github.com/flibitijibibo/b67910842ab95bb3decdf89d1502de88

You've got it reversed you can compile programs from the 90's on modern systems but Windows has trouble running old windows programs even on compatibility mode, even Wine runs them better.

>you can compile programs from the 90's on modern systems
Wanna know how I know you don't use Linux?

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When it comes to binaries they break not just across the distros but even across kernel upgrades. This is why there are new Android phones on 3.x kernels. Having the source on Windows feels almost like cheating.

What? You mean I need to link against libauthordiedin1997 for one function?

Well I mean, xBill is still playable on modern systems.

Yes. Only assuming that libc and some drivers exist is a sane thing to do if you are planning to build something once and dumping it on steam or gog without ever thinking about it again.

>shills perpetuating this trash

It's literally been proven, fucking spend two minutes googling, new fags. Microsoft will literally pay tech journalists/developers to lie about Linux, pull support from under the rug, and manufacture instances of Linux """breaking""" or """not working properly""".

Obviously Linux has its flaws like any other OS but 0.1% of users causing 20% of tickets? How would they even calculate that? Literally a brainlet tier fiction.

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Wew what a fucking faggot.

>0.1% of users causing 20% of tickets? How would they even calculate that?
20% of their customer support issues are linx-related issues, 0.1% of their installed user base is using Linux
I would refrain from calling other people brainlets if you can't figure that out

Ben Golus
he is a nobody who has opinions of things he knows very little about.
I will not even debate the merits or failings of of Linux if anything Ben Golus says is taken as having any bearing on the issues. It would be like trying to have a serious debate about the future of theatre with someone whose biggest acting part to date is standing outside a shop wearing a sandwich board with an arrow pointing at the shop

"Linux on desktop" is such a shitfest that "evil micro$oft" does not need to do anything though.
And don't tell me stories about how wonderfully everything works on linux, how wine is so perfect that it runs better than windows, I hear these stories all the time starting from 2007 (the first time I encountered a lintard). No it does not.

>keep linux kernel and change userspace
>now we have n+1 linux distros and derivatives in the market

Works for me. Stop using proprietary programs that are intentionally made to break on anything but the latest version of windows.