Software engineering jobs are literally jam-packed with chads, women and niggers

No Jewish boobs

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is your boss capable of programming?

>work ridiculous hours Japan style
I worked for a company in Michigan. The director would walk around talking about kaizen and how the Japanese do things. Fuck you, BEPCO

it's software but it's not engineering

>Typing coded makes me an engineer

Pick up the mop and become a sanitation engineer instead

>Thinking comp Sci is something other than pseudomath anyways

Kek in what way is it not engineering

engineering makes you an engineer

engineering is about applying universal scientific and mathematical principles to creatively solve a problem, people working with big software stacks aren't usually doing this they're just plugging things into other things

What you are describing is creative problem solving, with science and math.

Engineering is building things and making trade offs.

>People doing exactly what I said aren't engineers

Made me think.

frameworks abstract away the math and science (engineering). That's the point

>He hasn't seen the huge influx of people that do 2-3 months in a coding bootcamp that get hired as "Software Engineers"

im not ready to become a software engineer. how do i just become like a software technician?

how many hours prr day to actually get hired after 3 months?

Summer Internship

Most people I check have cookie cutter portfolios that consist of 3 or 5 websites. I'll make an example of one right now.(Its worth noting that she started around last year april so about 6 months spent learning.)

Creating e.g. react or angular, an example of a large software stack that you refer to, probably required very little math or science. Maybe CS, but no new data structures or algorithms were created for either of these efforts.

Would you argue that these two examples are not feats of software engineering?

GIB MILKIES

Here you go.

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The react and es6 dichotomy annoys me. It’s kind of implied that react uses something resembling ECMAScript

I don't know what those frameworks are but any large piece of software probably involves data structures and algorithms, they don't need to be "new", if you are solving problems by writing algorithms then you're engineering
Frameworks hide the algorithms from you and you solve problems in a context-specific fashion by finding out what library functions you need to call to get your desired result

well if i work a full time job and aint exactly full of energy, im guessing 3 months is too optimistic?

>reasons you went into software and computers was to be that goblin at the back
>landscape changing to competent but also customer-facing and also presentable employees

>go into trade
>actual chads with a future in their fathers or fathers friends business

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From your earlier posts you seemed to imply that if you weren’t doing something novel or creative with math or science then you weren’t engineering, or did I misread?

I’m surprised you haven’t heard of either of those two frameworks. Have you heard of spring?

I would also argue that the act of writing maintainable and readable code is an act of engineering

its genocide dude.

>70k a year.
Isn't that a jr. Dev salsry?

Not for most of the country

I said you solve problems by using math and science. That doesn't necessarily mean inventing a new type of algorithm or data structure. Algorithms and data structures are not discrete concepts, the devil is the details. Like a table in Lua is actually a specific type of hash table combined with a specific type of sparse array that only activate under certain conditions, that's an engineered solution using concepts that already exist. I'm sure React and Angular are full of their own algorithms and data structures.

>I’m surprised you haven’t heard of either of those two frameworks. Have you heard of spring?
I'm not a web dev

>I would also argue that the act of writing maintainable and readable code is an act of engineering
Kind of but not really because engineering is more about what is being done not so much how its laid out, that's architecture

>>I’m surprised you haven’t heard of either of those two frameworks. Have you heard of spring?
>I'm not a web dev

Angular and react are two of the biggest single-page app frameworks out right now. Surprising that you haven’t heard of them even in passing.

Spring is the largest application framework ever, for java. It’s almost entirely used for backend applications, with the exception of spring mvc which sucks.

I don’t think what you’re describing (solely relying on a framework, searching for library calls without layering your own abstractions and algorithms) ever happens in practice.

Re: architecture vs engineering, I think we’re sort of sailing past each other like two ships in the night, so I’ll agree to disagree

Put me back in 1970 please

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>I don’t think what you’re describing (solely relying on a framework, searching for library calls without layering your own abstractions and algorithms) ever happens in practice
its a degree of graduation obviously
the more of that you're doing the less engineering you're doing
and don't pretend you can't build websites and apps by slapping together frameworks

architecture and engineeering are so related in software they might awell be the same thing, architecture is about human concerns and engineering is about computation concerns, as far as I'm concerned

man she's really packing some cows

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Are the civil engineers building a bridge doing engineering or are they glueing a bunch of shit together?

unless you're copy pasting bridge schematics then it's engineering obviously

im not OK only with the forced sjw politics down my throat, other than that, if you are not in Palo Alto its fine. Especially if you are beyond entry level.

He said he is not a web dev, why would he know about a single framework used for in small part of IT. Like I know you don't know how to use a genetic algorithm to teach an A.I. to use a Ik system procedural create a walking Robot and optimization it with a Bayesian belief network because you don't do A.I., Robotics, or computer sci/ engineering. You another one for those Boot camp code monkeys that are attending the hackathon down the hall of my office. While I am making 250k a year writing the Assembly on the next Qualcomm chipset.

larp

t.Pajeet code monkey

t. larper

t. Neet Neckbeards

I know what those things are at a high level, and I’m sure I could learn them. I was arguing whether or not using a framework, web or otherwise, constituted engineering, which I think it does. Even though the framework abstracts away a lot of concerns and allows you to not re-invent the wheel, you still have to fit all the pieces together, evaluate the trade offs, make the code extensible and maintainable, write tests, put it in a deployment pipeline etc etc. that sounds like engineering effort to me.

I have a CS degree and write software professionally, and have worked at every layer of the stack. No embedded development though, so you got me there.

Congrats on the salary my guy, I’m happy for you. Assembly isn’t really my thing but I’m glad you have found your calling

I'm in my last year of uni and looking for an internship makes me despair. Can't even get a dumbass unpaid internship. Have to google PHP functions daily.
Won't be able to work in a warehouse either cause where I live employers have to pay you a bonus if you have higher education so I'll never get hired for that.
I guess I can always jump off a cliff (in Minecraft of course)

larper

It can be engineering, it depends what you're doing with it
testing and deployment isn't engineering though so I don't know why you're dead set on labelling it something it isn't

I’m not really deadset, I was just adding it to a list of things that go on during the course of engineering a solution to a business need

you can engineer with frameworks, but most web devs aren't engineers, if you're the interviewee who thinks fizzbuzz has too much math, you aren't an engineer

No web developer is going to think fizzbuzz has too much math. I think you are confusing web developers and applications for a web development job.

Oddly enough, I have a software engineering internship currently, that let me stay part time while i’m in school.

Manager calls me tonight, 60 year old guy, really nice and polite with me, puts me on the phone with a woman he’s with in person and she tries inviting me to one of those MLM group sessions

I feel like a professional barrier was crossed, especially manager to intern. What a sick situation to put an intern in.

Kaizen is German isn't it? Also anyone that talks about Kaizen is a useless bureaucrap

It sounds like we’ve come full circle haha. You can engineer with frameworks. You were just pointing out that people who are more on the design side of the house, who do UX and things under that umbrella, aren’t engineers?

I can buy that

Assembly isn't that bad once you realize you can use NASM, MASM, & LUA scripting for reuseable code base and not reinvent the wheel for every damn Chipset. The secret to getting a good job in tech is doing things no one else can, why be a Full stack dev and have your whole career based on the wimps of AWS Dev OPs (My first job out of college that place is hell!) when you can do something like Assembly or Fortran for R&D, or specialized systems like power plants and make like 150 to 250k as a senior dev because no else can use your tool set. Also I have worked with Full stack dev you can plug in play module your way to a spaghetti coded mess real easy, ask any of these so called tech start ups.

Stop larping. No one believes the bullshit you pull from your ass.

"Kaizen" is some bullshit banzai japan way of improvement, that really leads to "Karōshi" working yourself to death!

>No web developer is going to think fizzbuzz has too much math.
somebody post the image

Why are you so mad nigger>>>

Fuck off retard, every competent software developer in SV makes 250k these days. You aren't cool because you write some ARM machine code for your shitty QA position, you're still a code monkey

Then why are you making it?

desu most everyone cleans up pretty nice. just do some basic hygine and very basic fashion consciousness and you'll look way better while still being a goblin inside