Is wayland stil the future?

>You wrote your blog post
no i didn't :^)

Wayland will always be the future.

KDE is disgusting, Xfce is the perfect world

wrong

mpv works
most xorg only applications work
only moz://a has to start compiling FF with cairo wayland and you can go use sway

and gtk3 should werk by default

i will wait until they get their shit together and make a unified toolkit and not just meme implementations per WM

the sway memesters did, it's called wlroots

they should keep it up then, maybe in a year or some they catch up with all i need

I'm the one who posted the bible. Like someone else said it, go find a video or blog posts around the web because there are a million reasons. For me the biggest reason is security and the surface/development side of things being so much better, I wouldn't personally know the difference but several developers have spoken about it. I think it was the Chromium team that had an extensive rant about xorg problems and how some problems could never be fixed until Wayland comes up, so they already started experimenting with it. So less developer friction, even if it was only "marketing speak" or perception, it would still be extremelly valueable. I just hate when something isn't ported/implemented on Linux because "it's too hard".

wayland doesn't even have a standardized way to draw a maximize, minimize and close button because gnome heavily shilled against it:
gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/217

the absolute state of the wayland right there, thank you gnome. And you're telling me that this is the "future of the linux desktop", lmao.

Is it possible to set up a functional and usable DE with Wayland yet?

No.

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No it's the present. But you'll always have people clinging to the past to avoid changing their setup.

I would really like to like Wayland, but it always gives me some reason to switch back to X.

Yes because Red Hat is behind it

X is absolute, unadulterated, pure fucking garbage, and I wholeheartedly welcome the advent of Wayland, or literally any other display server/protocol that comes along and takes X to the fucking gallows once and for all.

The model as a whole is extremely outdated, visibly inefficient, insecure, and it such a fucking mess of spaghetti code and extensions and life support that only a few people on the planet still understand how to actually maintain it. Their opinion on X? "Kill it with fire, please."

For a group of people that love to lambaste Windows users for having "babyduck syndrome", I've never seen more babyducks when it comes to the retards peddling the "x-xorg just werks" shit and spreading dumbfuck FUD about Wayland. (Of course, in all fairness, it doesn't help when all the distros out there wanted to be the first kids on the block to use Wayland and started pushing it out before it was 100% ready, leading to the average retarded joe to swear off of it.)

Similarly, for a group of people that jerk themselves off over software minimalism, there sure are a lot of people that love to suck the bloated dick of X. The same people who cry "Systemd does way too much for an init system!" seem to have no problem with all of the shit a display server shouldn't be doing, and they're too fucking retarded to understand that the Wayland protocol will eventually/has already gotten standardized extensions/addons for the sorts of shit they're bitching about (for instance, screensharing is now implemented under Pipewire, which on a side note, will kill another cancer, PA, eventually)

Simply put, and in simple user terms--X is responsible for a lot of the jankiness of the Linux desktop (as you'd expect of a display server that's been kept on life support for 30 years), and when Wayland is eventually adopted, it'll go a LONG way towards bringing Linux to the fucking 21st century.

youtube.com/watch?v=Zsz7Shbnb9c

Good video on the subject.

its great now that the individual DE have to implement all the shit that worked just fine using shit like xbindkeys and stuff. And of course pretty much none of them have any remotely the same level of functionality and most likely never will.

Not true, Gnome 3.30 works great on Wayland

>no u
between gnome and kde I prefer gnome, KDE literally wasted fucking thousands of dollars on making an alternative office suite to libre office that didn't even take off. Kde should die and based Red Hat now dropped the support for it. They could be making extensions on gnome to make it the same as Kde with better perfprmance, but they prefer to die
xfce is already dead

> based Red Hat
Did you shill a Fedora here a few days ago?
> but they prefer to die
Protip: RH is being slowly digested by IBM and is on its way out. RHEL is now IBM's, so it's a different product with different goals.

literally no one on either red hat or fedora agrees with you. Nothing is gonna change, the administration is the same this isn't a movie

gnome but i have seen minor lag when you play a video
there is wayfire if you can build that, it has a panel
why do you need a de anyway?

>xfce is already dead
nou

> Nothing is gonna change
Right now some other people discuss how Blizzard have changed over the course of 10 years after being bought by Activision. It took ten years, but it finally went to hell. Big corps like Apple buy startups all the time. "Nothing is going to change, we'll just release your product (think Siri) under our name and listen to your feedback. Also we need to add a few retention factors to increase our ROI or maybe completely freeze the development of that feature, if you don't like it - door's right there, it's out product now".
It will change, not over one night, of course.

Thank you for this.
I put emphasis on your critic on minimalists in that they suck the dick of the amalgamation that is the X server so hard, it's actually obscene.
I get fvcking 4 goddamn percent CPU usage on average idle in any DE or WM with my i7-7700HQ when using X. Switch to the Wayland version of that DE/WM if available,
ZERO TO ONE PERCENT. It's uncanny. I can actually see a difference between 40 and 60fps again. I can actually get 2 more hours of battery life again. I can actually use less than 2gb of ram when streaming videos again. Literally EVERYTHING Wayland offers is in there favor. It's pure, unaudited, baby duck syndrome. I honestly think some of them are too afraid to admit that they enjoy the retro feel of laggy windows and jittery scrolling that were so commonplace in the Era of their bitmap fonts

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no, it isn't. you can't even have wine on wayland because even such simple tasks as spawning a window at a certain location are impossible. let that sink in: because of security paranoia they took away the possibility for applications to open windows at a know predetermined location and the system just opens them somewhere randomly.
wayland is shit. overengineered paranoid shit

Waylend is sjw pajeet garbage. Slow, buggy shit that does nothing better than X. There's a reason nobody uses that shit.

X gives too much freedom to the user. So the security people decided that it's too dangerous. And a locked down system where the user has no power is the way to go. So they created Wayland. It's like the Apple walled garden of open source.

>you can't EVEN have a compatibility layer for a different OS work in it
I... wow.. ok.
a. I just ran osu! through Wine on Wayland a week ago
b. how tf is not being able to run an application developed for another OS through a compatibility layer on yours even a moderate issue
c. >caring about automatic window placement over security
kek

t.someone who never wrote one line of code in his life
seething consumerist faggot

>has i7-7700HQ
>complains about battery life
fucking consumer drones

>muuuuuuuuuuuuuuh security paranoia
yeah go and suck a shotgun

Both are shit for different reasons.

i wonder how many people could create an xorg.conf from scratch if they were forced to with a gun to their head. Also, no auto configuration bullshit with custom options applied.

t. someone who projects a lack of coding knowledge on to people who hold unsavory opinions on protocols
>implying I was complaining about the general battery life of my hardware and not the substantial difference in battery life between display managers the ratio of which holding to true to any hardware I use
Anything else? Or is the only valid argument against caring about security suicide suggestions? Is Jow Forums really this dead? Has reddit's "lol kill yourself XDD" virus ingrained itself in your mentality this much?
>hurrr duurr your seething!
Continue to avoid an actual argument, yeah why don't ya.
I hate nu Jow Forums

also, wasn't the bullshit X config file the main issue with getting the earlier versions of slackware running?

I did. Once upon a time.

Like 20 years ago.

Now? LOL Just shoot me nigger I ain't got time or the braincells left for that shit

Unlikely.
It's been pretty much dropped across the board.
It removes useful features without replacement without bringing any new useful features to the table.
Change for changes sake.

Because X is a garbage fire. Wayland was started by ex X developers because there was even bugs they simply couldn't fix in X because of how it is designed.

youtube.com/watch?v=GWQh_DmDLKQ

My touchpad actually works better in wayland

Gnome is not a WM
Mutter is

Linux is a kernel.

>It's been pretty much dropped across the board.
No it hasn't, you dumbass.

>what is sway

A clone of bloated nu-wm i3

> (OP)
>No it's the present. But you'll always have people clinging to the past to avoid changing their setup.
Wayland does not support me running kde on Nvidia with quad screens and 3d accelerated virtual machines, so no, Wayland is broken. Wayland seems to only work for very basic use-cases on low-end hardware.

I like Wayland but it's still useless when it comes to me using my desktop for actual work. I use my computer to get things done and as much as I support Wayland replacing X, it has a long way to go.

>
>also, wasn't the bullshit X config file the main issue with getting the earlier versions of slackware running?
Yeah, back when no Linux distro even had automounting or GUI mounting out of the box. Back then, I don't think anyone expected to run Linux without knowing how to do basic configuration like writing/editing x configuration. This was not too long after a time when it was standard to configure and compile the kernel yourself.

>Wayland does not support me running kde on Nvidia
Wrong order. It's nvidia doesn't support kde on wayland because instead of usind standard open library they had to invent a wheel they can control. Gnome bent over because they are corporate whires.

>video
/thread

and gayland is made by the x hackers if you didn't know

i3 is the best X WM
it uses xcb and you should use it

In a nutshell, the codebase is ancient and it's been frankensteined over the years to the point where nobody can properly maintain it, not even the original devs.
When software gets that old, you have 2 options:
>rewrite it and provide the exact same behavior and interface
>make something new from scratch
the former is incredibly difficult, if not entirely impossible. xorg is so old and so spaghetti-fied at this point that there could be decades-old bugs that modern WMs/DEs depend on in order to work properly. Not to mention, there could be fundamental mistakes in the original design that couldn't be fixed without a completely new API.
Either way you're going to break compatibility, so you might as well make something completely new from the ground up, and base it on the strengths and weaknesses of its predecessor. That's Wayland in a nutshell.

>
>>Wayland does not support me running kde on Nvidia
>Wrong order. It's nvidia doesn't support kde on wayland because instead of usind standard open library they had to invent a wheel they can control.
.
Standard response. It doesn't matter, I can't use it. Nvidia won't write code to fix it, Wayland devs won't, and kde devs won't, so I can't use it.

> Gnome bent over because they are corporate whires
Yeah, as usual.

Even if Nvidia supported Plasma, I have doubts about 3d accelerated virtual machines working properly under Wayland, quad screen support working properly. Then finally, I use X over ssh somewhat regularly and so far Wayland is more painful for this, because as far as I know, the solution is to use vnc, or run X under Wayland, which either way is slow, and again comes from this mindset of "it's not Wayland's job to support your use cases that worked fine on X for 20 years"

gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/issues/895

Is this shit fixed yet?

Oh yeah, also, I have a very large custom WM built on Xmonad, and so far it is difficult to get the same functionality on Wayland. I don't complain about this one so much though, because Xmonad is obviously only ever going to work on X, and it's my responsibility to rebuild my stuff for Wayland. But I have actual work to do that brings home money, whereas rewriting stuff for Wayland is a huge time sink with zero payoff. I know that many other professional developers have similar issues too. The barrier to entry with Wayland is just too high (still) which means that even though Wayland is open source, it doesn't get the natural deluge of patches from the world like the Linux kernel gets.

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>Nvidia won't write code to fix it
They(by they i mean single nvidia employee) actually writing eglstreams backend for kwin since november so it's only matter of time.

>
>>Nvidia won't write code to fix it
>They(by they i mean single nvidia employee) actually writing eglstreams backend for kwin since november so it's only matter of time.
I know. I've toyed with it and even tried to see if I can do anything to get it working, I just don't have the time though, if there was a high enough bounty on any of it I could put some time in, but I can't do it for free, and unfortunately it looks like you can count the people working on it with one hand.

I do not suspect that even once plasma can launch on Wayland with the proprietary Nvidia drivers, that all features will work correctly, for a long time.

Nvidia does not seem to view it as affecting their profits (and I reckon they are right.) Last I checked, plasma devs basically wrote it off as Nvidia being assholes, and that Nvidia needs to fix it, although I do imagine once eglstreams is working in a rudimentary way, some plasma devs will start helping. And of course, it's all outside the scope of Wayland devs, as usual

werks on windows

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What is the state of tiling window managers on Wayland? I would love to have something extensible built in lisp or Haskell.

Also, what about desktop automation on Wayland? In Xorg you can use tools like xdotool to automate tasks. There are ways to read window text , although they are inconsistent, since x clients use such a variety of methods to draw their windows, but I can usually get things done without needing to use an OCR. Has anyone here done any automation on Wayland? Maybe these days you can just do it all with JavaScript, not sure.

>werks on windows
My use cases literally don't work on windows. How do you setup a tiling window manager with virtual machines running fully accelerated utilizing pci passthrough on windows? headless accelerated virtual machines? Maybe it can be done, but idk how. Afaik you need Linux or a BSD variant.

>they don't know about Sway

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I do. And aside from termite and a tiny number of other completely Wayland-native applications, sway + Xwayland is de facto no different from rootless Xorg + i3 + compositor. GTK+ applications are even more buggy on average.

based on some random wayland dev he said that the security meme can be bypassed by the window manager bu questioned why would someone do that, we could just do that and fuck their project over lol.

>makes modern software
>community fucks it up by implementing the old standard

I'm confused.

Isn't that what Xwayland did?

no, that added just some backwards compatibility to some tools but other wont work well.
The one responsible to expose those frame buffers are now the window compositors like for example wlroots

But Xwayland is a window manager that implements X protocols for X clients. It fits the criteria for a wayland killer.

no because it excludes those programs made for pure wayland

no because it includes those programs not made for pure wayland

Oh, you poor innocent child!

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xoomers getting desperate with their fud
that's enough to convince me wayland is the future

:S

what are you trying to say dude?
I could writer a program that doesn't give a shit about Xwayland its not a wayland killer. You would have to force devs to write in X or the toolkit devs to implement options to chose witch one is going to be used.

If only KDE devs could focus on things that actually matter. GNOME might be shit, but because they atleast try to focus on something its somewhat nice to use.

>Wayland devs won't, and kde devs won't, so I can't use it.
they did - it's called noevou

what you want is someone unpaid/licenced to do so to rewrite or RE a proprietary crapware which is illegal and gayvidia will surely sue if someone did so

anything gtk3 IS wayland ready (or should be, like FF)

>RHEL is now IBM's, so it's a different product with different goals.
wait how will this affect things like wayland?

is lxqt or any other basic fucking desktop that isn't some bullshit tiling environment ever going to support wayland? I'm not using that gnome/kde shit.

gnu is not an operating system.

this
last i heard they were removing features without replacing them with better ones (à la gnome)

You aren't even pretending to be a Fedora "supporter" anymore.
How much does IBM pay in rupees?