There is no good refutation of this, because it's true

i feel like forth might be cool, but doesnt lisp do everything forth does only better

but im too experienced using swords that it wont ever be worth it for me to use bullets

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yep, basically forth is lisp but deliberately slightly worse in everything

Forth is lower level than lisp. It's easy to get a forth up and running on any embedded hardware. It's light weight and easier to implement than any other high level language.

Who cares. Both forth and lisp are so stiff it's unpleasant to work with and it feels like you're fighting the language at every turn. Why should I learn forth over learning lisp as someone about to embark on lisp? There are more lisp books.

I studied lisp for months but still felt like I couldn't program anything on my own

can you run forth as low level as you would C? like just right over the assembly? do i need special hardware?

why do you keep calling lisp stiff. lisp and forth are two of the least stiff langs out there. why learn lisp if you hate it anyway, lmao @ ur life luser

Because it doesn't feel like I can do anything

Yes you can. In fact , that's how the creator intends forth to be used. Forth is suppose to be quickly implemented in machine code or assembly. If you follow the link I posted in this thread from forth.com ,you'll see it's used extensively in embedded work. It's a lot better to work with than C because forth is interpreted. So everything is compiled on the fly. So you can test new code as soon as you write it without compiling or the need for a debugger. It can also be implemented in places where a full C compiler wouldn't fit. You only need like 32kb of space to implement a full forth compiler. There are dozens of forth compilers available for common embedded devices like the Adrino and Raspberry Pi.

I've never programmed before . Should I and how can I learn forth ? Are there many books? I remember when these threads were spammed there was a discord?

Both forth and Lisp have some of the greatest programming books even written based on them. It's not forth or lisps fault that you're stuck in a crappy C mindset because all modern languages are C clones. Lisp and Forth are the least restrictive you can get with a language.

forth dont pay the bills. no forth jobs and no jobs in any language like forth

Here's a nice online tutorial that can get you started. skilldrick.github.io/easyforth/#snake

This is why I learned lisp instead

Forth is used in the aerospace and defense industry brainlet. The amount of jobs also doesn't decide how good a language otherwise javascript and Python are the greatest languages ever written.

maybe you're the stiff one, fren. go on #lisp on IRC and vocalize your concerns next time ur stuck or annoyed. lisp is known for being flexible and multi paradigm.

i've heard stuff like this before, i really admire forth but of course my time here is not limitless. I'll definately give it a look next time I'm bored on a rainy day, i enjoy low level elegant ssystems. sounds extremely comfy absed off what youwrote.

Actually I have a rpi, that'd be dope to get a little colorForth hack machine running or something.

Can you mentor me in lisp

This

>hurr we only use register based machines because of C
So many CS tards parroting this argument, ignorant of EE
It's only Rustfags and Forthmemers that do it too.

I'm probably not qualified for that role. besides, what does that mean, anyway? you just emailing me questions lmao, there's the entire internet for that, and free resources with teachers better at teaching, more experienced and simply smarter/better programmers than I could ever hope to be.

So on that note, as your new mentor I recommend the following: If the "thinking backwards" or "stiff"ness thing really gets to you, read a book like "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" - REALLY good book on unerstanding the language with very reasonable problem sets or for the scheme the famous "Little Schemer" (which you can do in a week, it's short af but excellent).

When stuck, utilize IRC, plebbit, stack exchange and of course your local Jow Forums cesspit. Jow Forums needs a programming chat.

Why do we use register machines smart guy?

youtube.com/watch?v=Q6FflPMHZP4

youtube.com/watch?v=dvTI3KmcZ7I

youtube.com/watch?v=NK0NwqF8F0k

youtube.com/watch?v=SX3kXbLmwn4

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>lisp
>slightly slower than registers but not a clusterfuck
>neat and orderly
>forth
>slightly slower than registers but not a clusterfuck
>neat and orderly
>c
>WHOAH HERE COMES THE CLUSTERFUCK
>completely disgusting complicated syntax and system
>compiler is massive
>isn't interpreted

So how are we going to make a version like lisp or forth but that uses registers?

Any major airport terminal’s baggage handling system, many large telescopes, shit tons of embedded devices...

No it doesn’t run your shitty chink gaymes.

HOW CAN I LEARN THE SECRETS OF FORTH

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Start by using an RPN calculator.

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Forth has mixed notation not RPN throughout

I want to make video game cheats would forth be a good place to start if my end goal is pcie based cheats

Is there any forth that either isn't pig slow or unmaintained?

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this is retarded because arrows always existed

Forth hasn’t changed in decades and is faster than c. The only thing faster than Forth is assy. You probably don’t know your head from your ass.

Faster than C doing what? Arithmetic at best. Forth has a hard time doing anything more complex than manipulating numbers

No it doesn’t. Confirmed for brainlet non Forth user. You’re probably a brown person, brown people can’t understand postfix.

Forth still isn't postfix. Are you sure you know more than the absolute basics?

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Forth is almost entirely postfix. As I said before you’re clearly just an ass blasted brown person angry that you can’t use Forth.

Pic related is probably more your speed. Enjoy!

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The gforth compiler maintainer is one of my professors and I guarantee you I know a lot more about forth than you. Also I'm pale like a glass if milk.

And forth can be written in any syntactic order including infix and prefix

>you had a class with a ta who knew a guy
You’re a real whiz kid. I’m sure you know all about Forth which is why you’re in here making shit up. And Jews aren’t white.

What kind of mental illness makes you post shit like this

i can't imagine me or anyone here do anything like that. then again, if people use forth for so critical applications so it may be worth it.

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>Forth hasn’t changed in decades
CPUs have change quite much instead.

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Spot the one of those that isn't made up.

topkek, forth really is the new Jow Forums lisp sperg meme
>inb4 some lisp autismos pop up

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>It's a lot better to work with than C because forth is interpreted. So everything is compiled on the fly. So you can test new code as soon as you write it without compiling or the need for a debugger. It can also be implemented in places where a full C compiler wouldn't fit. You only need like 32kb of space to implement a full forth compiler.

Sure it takes a while to test things, but wouldn't that 32kb be more useful for functional code rather than for wasteful interpreters?

>It can also be implemented in places where a full C compiler wouldn't fit. You only need like 32kb of space to implement a full forth compiler.
What situation is this? Surely you would be cross-compiling if lack of space is a concern

>So everything is compiled on the fly.
Basically that leaves room for three implementation options:
a) The compiler recompiles the whole program after adding each word. At that point you could use any arbitrary macro assembler, probably including one with a less CPU cache hostile stack model.
b) The compiler compiles each word and adds them dynamically, making a lot of optimizations impossible.
c) Some tracing JIT compiler does its work, with the usual drawbacks.

macro assemblers are shit. Show me a macro assembler that can do what forth can do.

Fortran is still the ideal programming language. If you get 1000 programmers to write their ideal pseudocode, the average of that is fortran.

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This is why Jow Forums is a bad place.

Code isn't compiled on the fly in general, code is compiled if at all when defining new words or when a specific command to compile a definition is given. The first makes optimization a bit harder but the later can use standard optimization techniques.

Looking at Forth as an advanced macro assembler for a virtual stack processor is IMO valid.

I just use node.js when I want to get close to the hardware.

*non programmers

literally you can write 4tran in 10 lines of forth

>macro assemblers are shit
That's just because because there is no money in them when you can use real programming languages instead that keep the stack balanced for you. Realistically, everyone that knows how to parse recursive descending can create macro assemblers with arbitrarily powerful macros, so basically Forth, but with less stacks.
Even BTFOs you

>literally you can write four trannies in 10 lines of forth
figures

activate forth. Use it NOW!!!

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so forth is safe like Ada?

>another literally-who language
Yawn. Us C-hads dominate, have dominated and will dominate for all eternity. Deal with it, nigger.

Chuck Moore is a god-tier programmer

>Chuck Moore is the una-bomber
ftfy

I order you to find out who this man is.

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suppose that you made a macro assembler and then write forth inside of it. Then it would use registers.

youtube.com/watch?v=2uRLJZxINAQ

Something is happening. A shift in balance in the forth.

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