Say NO! to Discord

Say NO! to Discord and other proprietary communication services.

Use Matrix/Riot.

>Free and Open Source
>decentralized
>federated
>end-to-end encrypted (inkl. group chat)
>VOIP
>share images / files
>run your own servers and bridges
>standardized server API
>standardized client API
>multiple clients available for multiple platforms (Riot, Quaternion, Nehko, etc.)
>bridges to other networks supported (Discord, Telegram, Slack, IRC, WhatsApp, E-Mail, SMS, Facebook Messenger, Skype, Rocket Chat, etc.)
>currently deployed as private federation by the French government
>be in control of your data

matrix.org/

Attached: NO!.png (278x400, 213K)

Other urls found in this thread:

matrix.org/docs/projects/clients-matrix
github.com/vector-im/riot-meta/issues/132
ircv3.net/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>currently deployed as private federation by the French government
Lol

Is it really decentralized when you have web-based chat rooms?

>Is it really decentralized when you have web-based chat rooms?
Yes, as you can run your own server if you want to.

why would I ever use this shitty trendy.js looking garbage over IRC when I just need a secure instant messaging system

in cases when I don't care about the remote possibility that some faceless drone is reading my group chat correspondence, I'd rather just use a network that people actually use

>why would I ever use this shitty trendy.js looking garbage over IRC when I just need a secure instant messaging system
You can use a weechat plugin if you want to, no need to use the web client. There are quite a few clients available to choose from:
matrix.org/docs/projects/clients-matrix

Image related.

Attached: weechat.png (892x628, 92K)

but then why not just use weechat and a standard IRC server I can easily connect to from practically any system built since 1985 with SSL if I so want to

if I'm planning some kind of serious political activity that would incur the wrath of the state upon me I don't need emojis or freetard skype chats

I like the idea, but even all the chat rooms seem virtually ded, nobody is sharing media even (never mind in good resolution).

And the Riot app (is it only that) seems lreally bad at mixing private/ public messages or even threaded conversations.

I don't see it working?

BTW the best alternative I found that actually has users is Pleroma (/Mastodon / GNU Social).

Yes, it's more twitter-like, but at least it's used and evidently useful for sharing images and talking to people and stuff.

Matrix doesn't currently seem to be, nobody IS using it even when thousands of people are in a room right?

Attached: mastodon_user_count_feb_2019.png (1464x660, 67K)

Standard IRC does not have:
- chat history
- file sharing
- VoIP
- end-to-end encryption
- public federation
- several less significant features (netsplit resistance, bridging, offline messages, notifications, longer or multiline messages, timestamped protocol events, multi-device access to a single identity, ...)

If you don't need any of that, feel free to stay on IRC. IRCv3 also looks like it could fix some of these issues, but it's not really a thing yet, it seems.

k um seems nice n all but nobody uses these services

Bump. We need to advertise alternatives whenever possible.

>chat history
>- file sharing

what? every irc autist has irc logs of every second going back to 1997, and before torrents, irc was the biggest place to pirate your "leet warez", and most of the shit you complain about the bottom is taken care of by bots, seems like most irc haters just don't know how to use it, which actually good, keeps the average irc iq high with zoomers unable to figure it out

IRC lacks file sharing through the server, but it has direct file transfers. No having VoIP is a feature.

IRC is a steadily dying medium and only acts as containment for spergs.

>No having VoIP is a feature
Yeah, that's why IRC is not a communications medium - you can't... communicate.

IRC logs require you to stay online 24/7, which is not trivial for many users. Also, no history from before you join the room.

As for file sharing, true, I guess "no file sharing" is inaccurate, but again, DCC as a direct peer-to-peer connection is hardly viable for many people, such as anyone behnd NAT. Also more annoying to use for many common use cases (posting an image for everyone in the channel, which is currently commonly solved by using file/image hosting websites).

>No having VoIP is a feature.
Hardly so. You don't have to use it in Matrix and there are many clients which don't support it at all. Also, it's not a core feature of the protocol; when you use VoIP, Matrix just initiates a WebRTC session like e.g. SIP, so it's not locked onto a single implementation either.

But dying IRC is far, FAR more active than Matrix, as far as I could tell?

And the only thing I myself see growing is Pleroma (/ Mastodon / ...), which fortunately is federated and other stuff.

Am I wrong?

>Matrix
>Am I wrong?
Not sure, I don't know about Matrix. I do know Discord is the king of the hill currently.

>IRC logs require you to stay online 24/7, which is not trivial for many users. Also, no history from before you join the room.

omg fucking zoomers, get a damn shell account somewhere and login from there, then it will run 24/7, that also protects your own ip from ddos kids, duh

>chat history
fucking good, if I want that shit logged I'll do it on my terms on my own system, not some random faggot's server
>file sharing
>VoIP
fucking why, it's an instant messenger not a file repository or social network
>public federation
this is a stupid buzzword
>several less significant features
for good reason; nobody gives a fuck about them or already handles them when they're actually needed with bots

all of these 50 new IM networks ever year is so fucking tiresome, stop shilling these pieces of shit and further fragmenting everything while condescending to people who aren't interested in roleplaying as cyberpunk dissidents, those of us who actually do important things that are unsuitable on regular centralized networks already have plenty of options that we don't need some effeminate bunch of balding 25 year old faggots from san francisco to "fix" for us with some trendy open source web app that doesn't run on anything and nobody uses

>angsty lonely sperg yells at technological progress
It's a 10-in-1 package and if you don't like it, you can keep using dead tech, it's fine.

(cont'd)
Now, I only judged this by going into the chat rooms with the biggest user counts, including porn sharing ones a few times in the last two years. And they have nearly no fucking activity.

It's also not actually great to share images or movies or such there, as far as I can tell it's all low res and such.

Meanwhile, if you go to one random place in the Pleroma etc. universe (ex: pl.kys.moe , because of the name and being one random server) and see even just the federated servers, there's a LOT more activity. Federation is a real reality on that network, and it's active.

Zoomers would be right on this end though, why would everyone need to run a machine 24/7 to catch some text? It is retarded.

This actually DOES deserve another solution, regardless if it's centralized or distributed.

That *is* staying online 24/7, doofus. Also:
>which is not trivial for many users
Running ZNC on a VPS is no problem for me, but it's not something a normal user will do, so they'll just go to Discord instead.

>chat history
You can log it in your client too.
You can connect from your homeserver and room history you access stays there.
You can make it so that new room members only see the history from when they're invited or join.

>it's an instant messenger not a file repository or social network
Optional. Don't use it if you don't need it.

>this is a stupid buzzword
Idiot. It means that you can run your own server and still chat with people on other servers (via server-to-server communication; individual clients only connect to their own homeserver) like with e.g. email. That's a very important feature for free and open communication protocols.

>stop shilling these pieces of shit and further fragmenting everything
You know what will happen if we stop shilling free and open solutions? People will centralize, sure, but on Discord and not IRC.
If you don't care what non-techies use, then you shouldn't care about them not being on IRC either and should just ignore this thread.

>posting an image for everyone in the channel,

thank god for that, but if u really must be bombarded with anime boobs 24/7 u can always scroll some ansi art

Attached: Screen-Shot-2015-08-01-at-19.16.41-306x410.png (306x410, 30K)

>a normal user

wait...why do i can about normal users?

as far as I can tell, basically all matrix clients either describe themselves as incomplete prototypes or don't support encryption for the entire protocol

the only exception is riot, except riot isn't a client because you have to make a fucking account on their databases to use it and connect to 'servers' that they're hosting, so its literally just discord for paranoid retards who don't even understand what matrix is

based

So you realise when your recommendations and opinions are tripe.

no you don't

Attached: file.png (333x230, 6K)

>If you don't care what non-techies use, then you shouldn't care about them not being on IRC either and should just ignore this thread.

that is nothing new, it was always fragmented, smart/autistic people went on irc, normies went on aol, and everything was fine

If you don't have a client with enabled image embedding, then there's no real difference for you as an user whether the other user uploads an image to imgur or matrix: you just get a link in the channel either way.

Read that last line.

>because you have to make a fucking account on their databases to use it and connect to 'servers' that they're hosting
That's how the Matrix protocol operates. Host your own server if that's a problem for you.

here we go again...

btw GIMP doesn't suck, it's just as good as Photoshop CC.

Attached: hZnIq59l3nR0kso.jpg (576x764, 112K)

>smart/autistic
autistic

>But dying IRC is far, FAR more active than Matrix, as far as I could tell?
Even so, you can connect to IRC via. Matrix bridges. The reason for IRC still being popular are conservative free and open source projects that use it to communicate for development related stuff and helping their users, they'll be the last ones to move to something new. Once they do move however, IRC will be barren.

>fucking good, if I want that shit logged I'll do it on my terms on my own system, not some random faggot's server
Then use encrypted rooms. Messages are end-to-end encrypted, which means the server owner will have no access to that data unless he is participating in the room himself.
>fucking why, it's an instant messenger not a file repository or social network
It aims to replace discord and become an open communication network not limited to text only. IRC is dying strictly because it is text only.
>this is a stupid buzzword
No:
>federation
>Federation means that separate instances of a service communicate - the best example of this is email servers, in which it's possible to send mail between difference service providers. For Matrix, this means that data about rooms and message history is shared between servers of participating users.

>all of these 50 new IM networks ever year is so fucking tiresome,
I don't disagree, but Matrix is a protocol that allows you to easily bridge different networks. This means that as long as someone is interested in making a bridge from Matrix to [insert_shiny_new_network] you will never have to change networks again.

>shameless noob calling irc tripe

ok

IRC does only one thing I care about, and it doesn't do it well.

>if I want that shit logged I'll do it on my terms on my own system, not some random faggot's server
user, basically all of public IRC got logged anyhow.

It would not be the protocol to be resilient to logging [due to clients encrypting messages to each other only they can read] or anything else, it was all hacks almost no one used.

> fucking why, it's an instant messenger not a file repository or social network
The image and general file sharing was a rather big thing; it made IRC fun to use. It's pretty necessary I think. Even if you personally don't use it, it's necessary to keep users.

Also, why shouldn't it do that? You don't have to even load media clientside if you don't want to, it's merely important that they can be.

> this is a stupid buzzword
Absolutely not. It's super useful already on Pleroma/Mastodon.

For example main Mastodon decided to have really shitty file size limits to spare its user/server base work. Now if you want good images because you're a weeb or into porn or whatever you are probably now using a Pleroma instance instead.

It allows both further development AND subcommunities with different needs that won't interfere with other communities, and it stops some autistic company from deciding everything on the network [e.g. hurr, images of violence are banned].

We can't have enough federation.

can i use riot to connect to third party servers?

>The reason for IRC still being popular are conservative free and open source projects that use it to communicate for development related stuff and helping their users, they'll be the last ones to move to something new.
>t. guy who only went on freenode to ask for help installing linux

embarrassing

Wait... Do people on Jow Forums actually run javascript? What the absolute fuck. Why are you running code you do not know what does? I suppose its fine if you are always inside a virtual machine.

Attached: last.png (430x737, 32K)

>unnecessary bloat for a use case that doesn't need it is progress
nice try shill, but no. you have to actually provide something novel, not wrap it all up in a shiny web app so feeble minded retards can comprehend it easier.
>Optional. Don't use it if you don't need it.
but you can't just not use it, it's still there and wasting space and CPU time on your system, so why again should this be acceptable?
>It means that you can run your own server and still chat with people on other servers
so, yeah, as I was saying, it's a buzzword designed to make a simple thing sound more exciting and mind-blowing than it actually is.
>You know what will happen if we stop shilling free and open solutions? People will centralize, sure, but on Discord and not IRC.
do you actually think your buzzword spouting in a freetard echo chamber is actually doing this? are you really that much of a fucking idiot? the only thing you're shilling is the idea that matrix/riot is a network for retards who didn't know how to chat securely until some bugman took 10 things that already existed and put a pretty bloated electron package over them and made them incompatible with everything else.

fuck off.
>Then use encrypted rooms.
or how about I just continue using a better solution and stop worrying about it?
>IRC is dying strictly because it is text only.
man I'm sure missing all of those people who can't figure out how to communicate without emojis and maymays... how do we bring them back bros...

I know. Whats the fucking point of ricing linux if you end up running unknown javascript anyway

>do important things
Oh really? Like what. Mind you, million dollar transactions get dealt nowadays over GSM phone calls. Idiot.
>bloat
IRC is not lean, it's featureless. It's actually bloat that you need a 24/7 connection to log chats. Meanwhile modern programs make life easier and are out of reach from autists.

>space
Less than a few megabytes for the binary.
>CPU time
Literally 0% in task manager unless I'm scrolling up and down.
>better solution
The vast majority of people have already voted - Discord has more users than all IRC on the planet combined.

why do you still have to enter a username, email address or phone #?

Okay, idiot:
>it's still there and wasting space and CPU time on your system
No it's not you fucktard. Matrix only initiates VoIP sessions if and when you use it and if your client supports it and has it enabled. Otherwise, it's no different from any individual protocol message.
>so, yeah, as I was saying, it's a buzzword designed to make a simple thing sound more exciting and mind-blowing than it actually is.
Out of all the popular real-time chat protocols, only Matrix and XMPP really emphasize federation. IRC doesn't have it and that's why network fragmentation is so annoying, you dumbfuck.
>[incomprehensible blabble]
Please do stay on IRC, moron. I don't want *you* anywhere near the channels I'm in.
>better solution
IRC has no native encryption and it's nontrivial setting up rooms where everyone uses OTP all the time.

Okay bait, 4/10. Now go home and cry to your Discord buddies about how you couldn't troll as a pretend IRC user.

>The reason for IRC still being popular are conservative free and open source projects that use it to communicate for development related stuff and helping their users, they'll be the last ones to move to something new.
It's more that I don't get why they would migrate to the dead matrix, or why any other user base would.

Somehow even with thousands of users, Matrix is not even good for porn sharing or anything anyone uses, which is really weird to me.

When and how is that supposed to become useful to anyone?

Far more complex IRC with nothing really that helps text-only support also doesn't seem like a plan to me at least.

You need an account (i.e. the name people see you send messages from) on your homeserver. If you set up your homeserver so that it permits anyone to log in with any name and without a password, then you can do it that way. You're not forced to use email/phone number if you don't want to. It's basically the same as if NickServ registration was mandatory.

>or how about I just continue using a better solution and stop worrying about it?
Most irc servers are logged anyhow, so I don't see your point really.
>man I'm sure missing all of those people who can't figure out how to communicate without emojis and maymays... how do we bring them back bros...
I don't disagree, but it's naive to think that the new generations will ever adopt something that is text only. Being able to share images/videos is convenient.
Native (Qt/C++) clients are available as well. Riot is also Free and Open Source, so it's not running unknown javascript.

Because I quite literally do not give a shit. Nothing bad can happen to me as I keep no compromising information on my fucking PC. Paranoid fucks.

how else is the fbi going to track you? fucking irc with all these random ppl logging in from behind who knows how many proxies, too much work for your local agent, he has a wife and kids you know

Yeah if only there was a way to triangulate someone from his speech patterns across public forums.

but the account has to be registered with riot, no?

is there a way to use the riot client without putting any of your authentication credentials on a database that they own?

(cont'd)
So, no one can imagine how Matrix might become actually used, or even explain why rooms with thousands of people are all so dead?

I'm asking this in the second thread already. I figure it's just how it is, then, and propose you have a look at Pleroma rather than Riot or stuff for now.

It's also federated, and at least you can share images, people are talking, there are ways to bulk download stuff off it with gallery-dl and friends, shit like that. It's alive at least.

>I suppose its fine if you are always inside a virtual machine.
It's probably fine enough inside a firejailed browser, too.

Attached: pleroma_logo_vector_nobg_nopan-fs8.png (209x334, 946)

github.com/vector-im/riot-meta/issues/132

It has to be registered with your homeserver. Riot is just a Matrix client written in JavaScript. It doesn't even communicate with anything but your identity server (for 3PID resolution), homeserver (for general protocol stuff) and integrations (for e.g. VoIP), all of which can be configured. There's no "Riot account", it's just your regular Matrix account on whichever server you connect to.

you sound like a numale on twitter getting rustled by gatekeepers, and don't worry, nobody's coming to join any of your channels on your obscure chat network nobody cares about any time soon, your tantrums are making sure of that

Kindly return to your containment zone.

but I'm already here, and your shitty electron botnet still has nobody using it, so what are you going to do about it?

ITT: Zoomers vs Boomers

Wait, what am I with my GNU/Social Pleroma? Zoomer or Boomer?

Which even are representing Riot?

>is there a way to use the riot client without putting any of your authentication credentials on a database that they own?
You can run your own identity server.

Think of matrix like this:
Everything is federated. You decide which servers you trust or use.
GNU Social /Mastodon / Pleroma aren't instant "chat" services from what I can tell. Matrix is more along the lines of Discord/Whatsapp.
Instead of competing with each other, they complement each other.
It's the same reason why twitter will never replace discord and vice versa.

>imagine actually using a communicator made by furries from San Francisco

Even if, that doesn't make it any less of an instant communication protocol.

Attached: citation_needed.jpg (1600x350, 62K)

>GNU Social /Mastodon / Pleroma aren't instant "chat" services from what I can tell
They aren't doing voice chat and IIRC not yet group chats, else there is a rather large overlap.

You can easily send someone a private message and use markup messages and what not, all while chatting in public.

I don't really get what Matrix will do other than that. And nobody says you couldn't do SIP calls on Pleroma or a further fork.

I don't understand the need for it to begin with because if you are a "gamer" and most likely you are since you are using Discord then you can just use Steam for the same purpose even now since it's literally a Discord copy now

I also rather trivially observed that I'm only doing on Pleroma what I thought I'd do on Matrix.

Go to weeb channel, talk to weebs. Go to tech channel, talk to techies. Techie has a specific issue that doesn't interest everyone, take it to private chat. Same as IRC and stuff before. And do all this while the people involved are on "their" server, which may have slightly different policies for public talk on there. And while people posting nsfw stuff, maymays and so on in places where they just have fun. And everyone might have ten accounts, one per server, same as on IRC... even with the servers now federating and having the advantage that "anime.website" is a bit different from "pleroma.site" and the network is over time somewhat specializing servers like IRC did.

Riot? Ded. Not even the techies are talking there, nor is anyone shitposting or having fun or whatever else.
It's also basically all on a single server apart from being on IRC, and not active, and the frontends are actually worse.
Not sure how that happened, or how this is particularly useful for anything?

>It's also basically all on a single server

Attached: matrix.png (978x549, 81K)

the main matrix server is fucking overloaded and the spec is shit, riot is bloated electron trash and the only client supporting 100% of the features.
should just be scrapped and attempted again.

Attached: DwQZVY1I.jpg (324x282, 10K)

All the rooms with people in them seem to be on matrix.org and pretty much none of them even has 50 people actively conversing in the last 24 hours.

Explain this to me then when it's supposed to have 12k servers all federated with people on them?

If I look at the activity as seen from any of the pleroma sites "The whole known network" (which is the federated part with that server, not all of it) there are a whole lot of posts, a whole lot of user names and a whole lot of sites in these user names... how is there such a huge difference?

Why are people talking about IRC and Mastodon when this thread is clearly supposed to be about a replacement for Discord? I want an open source platform in wich I can voice chat that is not Discord. IRC doesn't do that. Mastodon doesn't do that (as far as I know). Riot, however, seems to do the trick.

> when this thread is clearly supposed to be about a replacement for Discord?
Riot is evidently no good as image sharing platform, so it's obviously an even more limited/partial replacement than Mastodon?

And also from the point of view of people actually using it for anything, apparently.

Riot is actually the best client? I don't even seem to be able to order or tile the room list, and it also tells me little about what it's doing protocol wise or such.

Isn't XMPP 10 times better?

Throughout the years:
>"ICQ is shit!"
>Use IRC?
>"No! I don't want to learn!"
>"AIM/MSN/Y!M is shit!"
>Use IRC?
>"No! I don't want to learn!"
>"Skype is shit"
>Rinse and repeat
>"Browser-based IM clients (Facebook, etc) are shit!"
>Rinse and repeat
>"Discord/Slack/etc are bloated and bad!"
>
Why are regular people so against IRC? I just don't get it.

XMPP was useful but has been problematic since the big websites abandoned it to create their own islands.

Yes, the remaining clients/servers still more or less federate but most of them can't agree on the set of supported features and so on, and the commonly supported features are virtually just sending a message and presence notifications. No offline messaging, no omap, not even embedding images.

It really drove home to me why the pleroma mastodon thing is extraordinary, servers actually federate on a pretty good set of features and more get added very quickly in comparison.

PS: It would have been different if the big botnets had stuck with XMPP. The "minimum" usual feature set would have been google chat's and facebook messenger's or whatever. Only hostile features wouldn't have spread.

Now, there is just that slow (absence of) progress and most features are a thing the majority doesn't want to bother with implementing on either servers or clients.

it's federated.
>web-based chat rooms
The web client (riot) is a static page with javascript that makes requests to your matrix server.
You could host riot yourself, on your webserver. Or you could use any other client, not web based, if you prefer.

>irc
>dying
I swear, I first heard this in the mid nineties. IRC has been around since the mid eighties and still is. It's not going anywhere.
Plebs will do the pleb thing of the week, and we will still use IRC.

Attached: 1520535564924.png (700x393, 327K)

Wonder if there's a better model for running decentralized chat services than federation. Something blockchain related? Probably wouldn't scale well and IRC is outdated, although I do find IRC to be very comfy for some reason, it's definitely an old protocol with no real innovations brought to it over the last decade or two.

IRC + Mumble

The problem with this implementation is you need to trust the webclient serving you the Javascript. It's not really end-to-end if there is a third party trust requirement.
Better off just using signal

Very early on, they fucked ACK of messages in federation protocol. Jabber the company didn't want to have a flag day to fix it, as it'd disturb their clients.
Then, most of the Jabber board resigned, and people quit their jobs. That was circa 2003 if I recall correctly.
XMPP has simply been a zombie since then. Complete with zombie presences because lack of ACKs in federation.
And, guess what, they fixed the problem *as an optional extension* recently. Too little, too late.
The world has moved on.

Believe it or not, Tox (I'm not joking) exists and works just fine, if you can put up with the inconvenience of having your identity live in a file, and not being able to log in using more than one device at once.

There's nothing stopping you from downloading the Riot repo, building it and opening index.html in a web browser from your local disk.

You're right, a lot of "modern" chat rooms are just IRC skins, you can always get irc translators too. I think Discord even has one.

Where are you getting the javascript from?