The absolute state of Waylad

>proprietary systems they push beta software
No, they have management that can resolve differences between developers in a reasonable amount of time. Meanwhile the open source community now has to deal with SystemDisaster because the graybeards working on the old system had a spat for over a literal decade over which subsystem owns which responsibilities.

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It is when Linux does not work, and neither do their user base.

Why wayland got it so badly wrong is because Linux IS NOT, NEVER WAS, and NEVER WILL BE, a desktop operating system. It is a server operating system that hobbyists attempted to make into a desktop operating system. It was never intended to be some dumbed down operating system that joe public could figure out given a mouse and a monitor. It was always intended as a server operating system that anyone could learn to mess with if they were wise enough. Linux will never be a desktop operating system until someone finally rewrites it to be as much dumbfuckery as windows. Linux is not an alternative to windows desktop operating systems. When you realise that, it is the day you actually begin to realise why you dont understand linux sufficiently to be taken seriously. Linux is a server system that people hope, one day, in the distant future, to make into a desktop system, but at the moment it is the best server operating system and 100% of supercomputers use linux as their operating system. wayland failed because its devs were too stupid to realise that

almost 10 years and microsoft doesn't have a replacement for windows 7.

>It was always intended as a server operating system that anyone could learn to mess with if they were wise enough.
That's just flaming bullshit.
Linux got its start as a MINIX fork because people were tired of it minix being a minimal training OS for system programmers and wanted to do stuff with it. Don't act like there was some sort of grand scheme to build a server OS from the start, Torvalds just followed the money.

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works as my desktop

It does tho.
Granted, if someone were to install Manjaro without any idea what's up with Linux in general, and then some dumb shit would break like three days later, from their perspective it wouldn't work.

>wayland still hasn't replace X.org

where hasn't it? even the firefox I'm using right now is using wayland.

10 years, seriously? I tried wayland recently and it was so buggy, it kept freezing on Arch/sway and it completely broke my KDE neon install. Everything is flickering, even when I switch back to xorg.

Because it wasn't written by the guy who made pulseaudio and systemd

Make that 20 and a replacement for Win2K.

It is, at least for Linux.

This is correct.
Wayland went too far with destroying basic use cases from X. They always claim that the lack of functionality is somehow beneficial, yet, here we are 10 years down the road and no one wants to use it. Wonder why? Maybe if they had basic functionality from X like client windows from remote applications, and using middle click to paste, Linux users would actually use wayland. Any time I've tried Wayland it felt like some shitty graphics demo. I would love to replace X but Wayland is just another example of how Linux FLOSS developers have fucked up projects by trying to emulate another system instead of building actually novel solutions for Linux.

Unironically this. 2000 was fucking perfect.

until screen and mouse sharing works it's just another red hat toy

>The same people who cry "Systemd does way too much for an init system!" seem to have no problem with all of the shit a display server shouldn't be doing

this is the most annoying. especially the same fags that end up using garbge like st or dwm on top of all it.

Underrated and 100% true comment.

2000 was fucking awful, by the time you got all the shit you needed like a firewall installed it was already crashing

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS
>Although NeWS was considered technically elegant by some commentators, Sun eventually dropped the product.
Why the fuck does this happen so often in the history of Unix.
>X sucks, we should make something better
>We did it! Presenting Y
>nobody uses Y and it dies due to obscurity
>10+ years later
>X sucks, we should make something better
>We did it! Presenting Z
...

>Linux IS NOT, NEVER WAS, and NEVER WILL BE, a desktop operating system

doesn't make sense since all my work computers and personal computers literally run a generic, wayland using desktop environment and linux distribution.

let me interject for a moment

what are they using? it has been like a year since many distros come with Wayland as default, but it's really not noticeable, and that makes it a success

>coming to a non-windoze thread just to bitch
dumb wangtard

It's because education takes so long. People invent cool shit, then it takes years for them to show it to people who then take years to teach it to other people who then take years to begin actually using it.
The biggest problem in computing hasn't been lack of technical ingenuity, or lack of processing power, it has actually been the problem of computer literacy. Things are actually getting worse now that desktop computing is fading, and operating systems are becoming more locked down.

If people were all more educated, we'd have plan9 instead of docker and kubernetes, for example.

gnome enlightenment sway sort of work

These kind of replies show exactly what I meant when I said " When you realise that, it is the day you actually begin to realise why you dont understand linux sufficiently to be taken seriously."
Linux is there to do a very simple job. The whole philosophy behind linux programming is that each program should do one job and do it well. That is why linux as a desktop is a failure - yes you run it as a desktop, yes it works, but no, it will never be able to compete on its own two legs with Apple and Microsoft desktops. It's like trying to convert a tank ito a runabout car for trips to the countryside and shopping expeditions. Yes, you can do it, but it will never be the most efficient way, yet hey, everyone how about if we just start from the idea of building a small vehicle that can fit in a single parking space and doesnt use 20 gallons of fuel per mile?
learn about the operating system before you gob off and show yourselves as complete fools

and that's a good thing
or you want every retard to swarm like what happened with smart phones and fberg

I'm legit worried because once windows 7 dies ganoo/loonix will be literally the only half decent OS left in the world. These niggas need to get their shit together ASAP.

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I can get any operating system to "work" user, but why do I want to spend that time to. I was fine putting the effort in before systemd, but now it's even more of a pain just trying to avoid it.

bunch of wayland articles today
drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-debunked.html
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19127762

imo lot of damage control for them being shitheads about basic features like red hat/gnome always are

>it's been 10 years already
jesus christ slow down

The only distro I've tried on which Wayland actually works fine is Fedora. I tried setting it up in Ubuntu and in Archlinux and while the compositors worked well a lot of applications would crash for no reason.

I'll chime in with my 2¢:
I've got 4 systems that aren't headless.
Two of them with Wayland and two with X.
The system that have Wayland work quite well, especially my main laptop which is running GNOME.
The other system though, it's an old netbook that I have which runs Sway, since I'm quite used to i3wm.
Now, the issues start with WMs, why? Because if you have more than one screen - you're basically fucked, it's ironically simpler to setup under X.
And don't get me even started on the retarded requirement to have KMS and 3D drivers, because guess what? I can't run a fully FOSS setup like that.

So, in conclusion, while Wayland is quite comfy and useful where it works, it still "isn't there yet".

Wayland replaced xorg on my machine.

If wayland or any other graphical system is so good on linux, why do I always have to switch the compositor off to get the best performance and the best graphics. Why even have a compositor if it doesnt work?

/thread

Yeah but it's FREE shit

yeah youre right desktop linux is like getting your cock blown by a 52 year old whore with rotten teeth and one eye and a case of impetigo so bad her hair has fallen out. It's a good feeling if you close your eyes and pretend its a raving 16 year old virgin nympho

literally gagging/10

based drew

Sounds awfully specific.

Yeah I humped your mom a few times, but the lights were out and I closed my eyes and pretended

>playing videogames is work
Hahahahaha. Summer came early for you, kid.

All I can see in this reply is a bunch of false equivalences. You have made assertions, now back them up.
>It's like trying to convert a tank ito a runabout car for trips to the countryside and shopping expeditions. Yes, you can do it, but it will never be the most efficient way
This implies that either of the other operating systems are "more efficient" in some way, and that at the very least people use it because of some perceived efficiency, but that is untrue. People use Windows because it came with their laptop, and people use Mac OS because they want to look rich.
>The whole philosophy behind linux programming is that each program should do one job and do it well
This is also clearly untrue. That's the Unix philosophy, and Poettering has done a great job of completely ignoring it in mainstream Linux software.
You are the biggest retard in this entire thread.

That's nice of you, although I have to admit that your taste is somewhat peculiar.

>it still "isn't there yet".
this is what retards promoting it don't understand. They shill it everywhere but I don't know if they actually understand what are they using or the extent of what X can still do.
I was going to go for it on my desktop to test it when I found out it's a fucking headache on multi monitor setup.

>but user theres no need to write those dumb X config files

You're the only to have mentioned video games user. Are you dare I say... An actual retard?

Yeah I'm still waiting for Wayland to support my quadscreen development PC with graphics PCI passthrough for virtualized environments. I can run Windows on one monitor seemlessly using X. Wayland doesnt even try to provide this functionality.

Wayland's adoption model is the way things SHOULD be done. Users who aren't interested in changing things that have worked for decades can continue to use X. Users who want something new and exciting can adopt Wayland at their leisure.

Contrast this with SystemD, which was forced upon people. The difference between the two models explains why Lennart receives death threats and why Wayland merely receives skepticism.

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X is the reason I don't use linux.
I can't wait for wayland to be 100% ready.

>when Wayland is eventually adopted, it'll go a LONG way towards bringing Linux to the fucking 21st century.

And how much good will this do when it's finally completed in the 22nd century?

It just crashes.

well reality speaks for it self user.
systemd is now a requirement for most of the distros i even saw it installed on hybrid android devices.
systemd created forks and alternatives but wayland just made those that use X11 appreciate it even more, even if its a side product systemd created competition and no stagnation, wayland alternatives are totally irrelevant.
systemd follows a pyramid scheme, those on top dictate how things are going to be, the implementation and switch to systemd was very kick while wayland struggles to convince people to implement it on they daily use.
Wayland has splited the ecosystem by trying to be agnostic, every DE implements their meme protocol making software not made by them incompatible, i can mix i3 with KDE, but not sway with kwin. On the other had systemd the just tells those that want to run it to "could you run inside my pid 1" devs just put the fix in and that's it.

Dictatorships work.

After more than 10 years of doing everything in its power not to become a viable X.Org replacement, Wayland still hasn't replaced X.Org.
What a surprise.

Lennart can't stop crying and whining about how people are bullying him. Why do people want to murder Lennart? Because he forced himself on them. He's basically a rapist.

Drew Devault is a pretty lame dude, a lot of people don't like him very much. But I don't think anybody wants to kill him and the reason for that is obvious. Drew, for all his faults, isn't a rapist.

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Sure but don't you prefer Wayland's approach? Plenty of people are using Wayland right now (GNOME, KDE, Sway, etc.) and plenty of work is going into those compositors. Thankfully, it's not a requirement in any way, so you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

>People use Windows because it came with their laptop
If that was the case then all PCs that never came with an OS must be running Linux then

>foundation is funding outreach programs
>apparently they're not even trying to solve a known problem
That is a bit of a surprise.

You're telling me the majority of people buy their laptop without an OS?

The absolute state of Linux, you mean.

If you want to talk laptops specifically, functionally a good chunk of laptops might as well not come with an OS as most people who are sane will wipe the preinstalled Windows and replace it with Windows because they actually want Windows but don't want anything else that OEMs include
It's not a matter of people only use Windows because it's preinstalled, if that really was the case than most custom PCs which really don't come with an OS would be running Linux

It isn't for community software

people run windows because it supports the software they have to use. until a Linux distribution can offer the same level of software support it'll never take off as a desktop. no, wine doesn't work. no, the free versions are not as good. no, you can't just migrate to another program when you need it for work.

15 year old file picker meme:
bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141154&

Why is it even a desirable objective to have linux as a mainstream desktop OS?

to be fair xorg has improved the X11 situation significantly over the years

>windows is used by people with jobs, unlike Linux
That was his retarded statement. Linux powers all relevant servers and a ton of professional industries even as a desktop OS. The only other jobs windows users could have over Linux users are Adobe related or videogame streaming, both of which are non-professional.
95%+ of jobs don't require you to have a computer, let alone use windows. Anything you'd need is basically a phone number/email and a browser and MAYBE something to view docx files, all of which can be done on Android, ChromeOS and GNU.

Nothing.
It actually does way less.
It is also incompatible with anything even close to the unix-way, because "muh security".

Why replace something that just works?

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He's right but this is only proof of how impossible it is to supplant. Your option is to literally rewrite every X11 application yourself before people can migrate. And with so many people writing software holding opinions like "why reinvent the wheel" or "why care about portability when we can just rely on 1970's APIs for the rest of time?", it's no surprise why there's little momentum if any.

>ok so it's better, but why should I port my application to it?
These are the majority of people you'd have to deal with.

WAYALAND.... MORE LIME GAYLAND!!!!!
OHHH NOOO HOW WILL GAYLANDBROS EVER RECOVER
HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA

Imagine if they worked together with Nvidia instead of telling them to fuck off. I think they would already replaced Xorg completely if they did.

>have wheel
>invest square wheel, try to force everyone into using it
>people stick with X which works just fine and see no need to replace a functional wheel with a square one
>10 years later nobody cares about your square wheel
wayland cucks btfo

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>X
>just works
>doesn't even do what it's supposed to do
Do you even know what you are talking about?

>using middle click to paste
Hahahaha, seriously?
Wayland can't middle-click to paste?

>people stick with X which works just fine
The fact that people think X works just fine is the real problem here.

I've been running sway+wlroots from git master on my X220 for months now and it's great. GNOME is for gniggers.

>>ok so it's better, but why should I port my application to it?
most people concludes years back that writing native apps for this platforms is a fucking big joke, they usually code it in a middle man lib that has all those meme implementations coded in. So migration is a none issue.

Fucking zommer
C bad rust good
sysV bad systemD good
X bad wayland good

if it aint broke, dont fix it Jow Forumsoy

Sure, but he is talking about X.

me too Jow Forumsoy, X just werks.

so u don't get fucked by 1337 z00m3r5

>X just werks
Not even de devs of X believe that.

Tell nvidia to stop being a piece of shit. They still don't support the same kernel APIs that literally everyone else supports

>Meanwhile the open source community now has to deal with SystemDisaster
as if there wasn't any alternatives. windows 10 with it's retarded forced updates is a joke. you can't legally get a windows 10 system that doesn't fuck you up the ass. you can find a suitable linux distro it's just that it will take shitton of time to get used to it and configure it so retards here make blogposts how they dislike linux so much even though their attention span is way to low to install virtualbox and try them out themselves.

Works for me

Linux's biggest break hasn't been from anything Linux has done it's Windows fucking up

Wayland is H U G E and bloated to fuck.

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