>I call it my billion-dollar mistake. It was the invention of the null reference in 1965. At that time, I was designing the first comprehensive type system for references in an object oriented language (ALGOL W). My goal was to ensure that all use of references should be absolutely safe, with checking performed automatically by the compiler. But I couldn't resist the temptation to put in a null reference, simply because it was so easy to implement. This has led to innumerable errors, vulnerabilities, and system crashes, which have probably caused a billion dollars of pain and damage in the last forty years.
yes, that's for using raw pointers when interfacing with FFI. otherwise you use references or Option for references that may not exist, or better yet lifetimes so you can avoid that problem entirely.
Aaron Richardson
C doesn't have references retard.
Jackson Robinson
imagine being afraid of a computer crashing.
>be 40's guy >storm the beaches of normandy and iwo jima >don't even flinch as your friends are blown to pieces >murder dozens of men at close range >return home in '45 and lead a normal happy life
>be /millennial >have mental breakdown over segfault >attend therapy the rest of your life over it >retreat from the world into japanese cartoons >start wearing girl socks and masturbating to traps >become full time gay and start wearing dresses >cut your dick off and change your name >write CoC because you're too afraid to try writing code again >have nightmares about your "lived experience" with segfaults >start using rust
the world is going to hell in a handbasket.
Easton Cooper
wtf i like rust now cute
Brandon Lopez
var fuqReference: fuqType? = fuqClass.init("lol Jow Forums")
if let fuq = fuqReference { fuq.fuq() } else { print("fuq") }
optional types, bitches. swift is comfy. also guard statement.
Jayden Rodriguez
Cringe Jow Forums post
Juan Ortiz
t. incel
Landon Reyes
swift does share a lot with rust, huh. pretty sure we took `if let` from swift though and not the other way around
>everyone who isn't a skinny limp-wristed zoomer living in a sociocultural petri dish is a Jow Forumstard. just admit it, you're legitimately afraid of computer bugs because you've been kept too safe your whole life and you don't have any experience with actual danger for contrast. your amygdala is under-developed, you have no libido, and you have a spine like silly putty. don't feel bad, we're all in the same boat here.
Dominic Bell
>muh millennials Kys le wrong generation loser
Brayden Williams
>problem in algol >c btfo Are you okay? Do you have brain damage?
Jayden Robinson
>system stability is bad and you're weak for desiring it why?
Dominic Thomas
>swift >influenced by: ... Rust ... >Developer: Apple Inc. The only good things that came from Apple are probably CUPS and Clang.
Carson Ward
>Why? neckbeard thinking he's infallable and his shit is made of gold
Cooper Jenkins
I would love to use Rust instead of swift, but I'm too much of a brainlet to make ends meet using it. Swift is a good compromise and I'm glad I don't have to use Java or C++ at work, that's all.
Ethan Campbell
you'll never learn to swim if you're too afraid to jump in the deep end. rust is the arm-floaties of programming languages.
i'm not a fan of unix or c (or lisp, inb4). i just don't see any reason to obsess over pointers when the vast majority of problems in software are related to bad architecture/general laziness. structuring data properly and actually performing checks on returns would solve at least 75% of the problems attributed to pointers and null references.
Aiden White
>(a systems language) is the arm-floaties of programming >safety by design means you're too scared to use a "real language" kindly neck yourself cnile
Connor Howard
Can I develop with Swift outside of Xcode yet?
Lincoln Phillips
i don't like c, i'm just not a retard. when you cut a steak: you pick up your fork, stab the steak, pick up the knife, and cut the steak, right? trying to cut a steak without so much as picking up the fork is fucking asinine and anybody who tries to do so must be an actual retarded person. >durrhr i tried cutting my steak without a fork and it didn't work, it's all the stupid fork's fault. this is what you sound like. you could ask somebody else to cut your steak for you, but that would be embarrassing, wouldn't it? nothing is stopping you from checking your pointers in any language where they are used, other than your own laziness/ineptitude, so why are you asking somebody else to do it for you? isn't that embarrassing to you? >safety by design exactly why i called it the arm-floaties of programming, dimwit. why not learn to swim instead? your'e perfectly safe in the water once you learned to swim.
sure, a lot is and can be attributed to bad design and laziness from the get-go, but why not eliminate certain types of bugs entirely by a machine if you are able to?
here's an example for you: lets say you know both C and Rust and are equally proficient with both of them. let's say you write 2 programs, both exactly the same but with the difference that one is in C and the other in Rust.
can you say with _certainty_ that the C version of the program doesn't have a use after free bug, for instance? or an undetected buffer overflow?
Michael Peterson
yes. but then you could just as well use a non-apple language.
Jeremiah Bennett
yeah, and you cut the steak on a surface because you don't expect yourself to be perfect and never cut yourself, and you also don't cut towards yourself because you know that's unsafe and stupid. you avoid doing something the less safe way that offers no advantages. >nothing is stopping you from (manually) checking all the pointers correct, and i trust a program or in this case a language+compiler specifically designed to eliminate these cases more than any programmer. >isn't that embarassing to you? no, because i don't expect myself, or anyone for that matter to never make mistakes when writing code. i am not so full of myself that i think that i have looked at vulnerabilities from every angle and there can possibly be no exploit in my code. >you're perfectly safe once you learn how go tell that to the vulnerabilities that go decades unnoticed. prime example: heartbleed, also this post >if you don't use unsafe pointers everywhere and manually memory manage everything then you're not doing it right (your analogy: not using the fork) this is exactly something a cnile would say.
A lot of the soldiers returning from World War II had serious PTSD issues, but they just weren't dealt with. My grandfather on my mom's side suffered from that. He was never normal, always moody, distant and depressed apparently (I never met him). He committed suicide while my mom was in high school. After that happened, she and my grandma got plugged into a vet network and found there were thousands of WW2 and Korea vets living like this, forget about Vietnam. On my dad's side I had a great-uncle who fought at Stalingrad and was part of a death squad. He refused to talk about the war and had recurring nightmares where he would wake up screaming, decades later. He was also depressed.
I agree the bar for PTSD is set pretty low for some people, but to say that all those vets coming back after having their friends blown up beside them were "fine" is just a gross mischaracterization. Also, for the most part, they didn't kill in close range: youtube.com/watch?v=zViyZGmBhvs&t=1s
Kevin Lopez
>can you say with _certainty_ that the C version of the program doesn't have a use after free bug, for instance? or an undetected buffer overflow? yes, because i can read and understand one of the most simple languages ever concieved, lol. here's some advice from a dead roman guy, >just because a thing seems difficult for you, don't think it's impossible for anyone to accomplish.
Luke Lopez
>return home in '45 and lead a normal happy life dumbest thing I've read all week
Jackson Gomez
Every CVE was written by a guy who was certain they didn't write in a bug.
You're not special.
Sebastian Ward
>macfags can't be trusted not to dereference null pointers iToddlers BTFO
The rust language itself offers nothing new and is poorly implemented. So what's left besides marketing wank and the community full of shills who harass everyone.
Sebastian Diaz
>it offers nothing new pro-tip, user, try looking into the subject next time before posting! otherwise you'll get into embarassing situations like this, you don't want that do you now?
>You're not special. yes, i am. stop projecting your below average ability onto others and gg, fag.
Logan Rivera
kek, not him, but I knew coworkers that thought their code was good and it was utter garbage ready for the trash. you seem just like one of my coworkers.
the people who are experienced know that they make mistakes too or take shortcuts in certain places where they shouldn't have. the telltale sign of someone not experienced is that he doesn't know he actually wrote garbage and therefore can't admit he makes mistakes.
you know, it's possible i'm just trolling the rustfags because they can't help but harass everyone on Jow Forums about their language choices every single day. nothing of even moderate worth has been written in rust yet, mostly because rust devs spend their time on Jow Forums/reddit/so/hn shilling the language which they themselves rarely/never actually use. when comparing everything written in go, d, scala, even nim and swift, and rust, it's no contest; rust is the least successful language to come out in the last decade, and yet we never stop hearing about it.
i just want them to shut up and actually write something in their beloved language instead of constantly shilling it and never actually using it. i doubt they ever will though, so i just troll them instead.
Andrew Morgan
There is nothing wrong with nulls. Retards forgeting about possible NPE is not an excuse to waste memory. >inb4 kotlin doesn't have this problem, it does, and you are all a meme.