At this point, what would it take to create a Javascript-free web?

> what would it take
an entirely new language, using compiled binaries running in a sandboxed vm that can be disassembled back into readable text at any given moment.
webassembly headed in that direction, but the w3c faggots still think javascript is the future. things will change, albeit slowly, but that is the future of browser scripting, code that runs as fast as native code.

>JS serves it's purpose perfectly.
you're smoking too much cocaine. it barely works, its performance is absolutely fucking woeful and has no shortages of exploits and privacy concerns. it has been like this for decades and nothing will change.

It's really no longer strictly necessary to use Javascript for a modern responsive and beautiful web. HTML5 and CSS3 are so advanced that you can easily make dynamic content, hide elements, create galleries, script animations, upload content with pure CSS and proper class elements. For user input it is fully possible to rely on good old-fashioned forms and a lightweight static page generator running on the server.

The following site illustrates this wonderfully:
youmightnotneedjs.com/

Pic related.

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Brilliant, user. Soon we will be free of terrible Javascript forever.

We all need to make our own 90s style websites with only html.

motherfuckingwebsite.com/

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I like backend dev and only serving data (API). So from that perspective I want a front end that consumes the data and displays it however it wants (think RSS and all the readers). For the web the only solution is a js one page app which I hate. Is there a way to have both static HTML pages and only serving an API? Like some middle ware that connects to the API and generates the HTML on the server?

the issue is.. you see ES6? the language update that made it tolerable? internally it's translated to ES5 and then ran. things aren't changing.

I guess you could generate templates for the HTML pages, and then serve them. But then the pages won't be able to access the API.

But normally you build the one page js app, which separate it to multiple HTML pages. Which in turn are served as static files by the webserver.

Expansion on WASM.
Once WASM can run on its own and connect to Web APIs directly, there won't be any need for JS.
HTML/CSS is also pretty great these days, and are nearly Turing complete on their own.

user, the idea is to have it run natively at some point, without Babel and the like. It's just that browsers can't catch up fast enough

WASM will not replace Js

>create a web browser supporting only html + css
>assert that your html and css will never get turing complete
>study what are the most popular uses of js are
>create equivalent for these uses in css
>...
>done, you killed js and replicated all the functionality in the non turing complete html and css

Why we don't have cool aesthetic technology anymore?
What plane is this?

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I don't think the problem is JavaScript (although JavaScript is a big problem)
The real problem is that the web should never have supported active content and Turing complete scripting languages running in web pages

Probably not any time soon. Seems everyone at w3c is already too invested in Javascript; it's a sunk cost and they don't want to replace it.
But there's plenty of feature proposals for WebAssembly that could make JS completely redundant, and all we really need is for WASM modules to be able to directly interact with Web APIs (like the DOM) without some JS glue code.

W3c explicitly stated that webassembly is not a replacement for js and won't be having dom access.

W3C is the worst resource for anything related to thinking and studying
That site literally teaches you the opposite of the actual definition, broken ; don't use

> using a sandboxed VM
so it's the Docker autismo jail argument again? Redpill me

This.

>won't be having DOM access
Feature not a bug. The DOM only facilitates Turing complete cancer and should be killed completely.

Fuck off, I earn for my living doing JS shit

start using blazor

Yes of course, but you still need to show the data, right? SPA is popular, but it is not a must-have architecture for consuming REST data. You can make static pages and just include widgets that do AJAX when they need data. That is exactly what we did even before the first angular became popular. I don't know the reason behind the SPA popularity, I think it is an entirely hype-driven process

JS software engineer ITT. Doing mostly modern front-end but also have Node.js experience. Ask me anything.

Actually, HTML and CSS are garbage, too.

Jesus, you really don't know what you're talking about buddy.

Stop using the web. Use Gopher, ContNet, HTTP/0.2, etc.

This, stuff like blazor will entirely replace JS.
The future website will run entirely on a single canvas element.

OK, Jow Forums, here is the exact timeline and shape of things to come:
>~10 years for those technologies to become mature
>the next 10 years after that is the transistion phase in which lesser used APIs and obscure JS features that are hard to maintain get slowly dropped; eventually the percentage to which everyone implements ecmascript will drop
>the next 10 years is phase out
You heard it here first, Jow Forums.

Suckless

Why do you retards keep mentioning Turing complete like it has some relevance to the discussion. CSS already is Turing complete, which by the way means basically nothing in regards to its use in the web, and html isn't even a programming language, it's markup. It has no execution so Turing complete doesn't even make sense in context.
You guys obviously heard it in Mr robot and thought it sounded cool right?

Even nuking it from orbit wouldn't do anything at this point, I think.

Indeed

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>literally everything is shit
>just fuck my shit up famalampam
What the fuck do you want then?

>Modal
Can't close with the keyboard, not accessible

>View Switcher
Can't pause, not accessible

>File Upload
Can't style without CSS hacks, UX for multiple file uploads is atrocious

>Accordion
No keyboard navigation

>Lightbox
No keyboard navigation

>Tabs
No keyboard navigation

Amazing.

Get rid of them, too and render everything in a canvas.

imo browsers hould not be running any code, only interpreting markdowns like html, css and maybe some sort of- built-in only- functions that serves the purpose of displaying async content and do minimal comunication with servers.
browsers should not be a virtual machine to run whatever the fuck like it is right now

Martin B-57 Canberra

The full removal of all plugins including flash from all browsers.

>non turing complete html and css
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but just in case you're not, HTML+CSS are turing complete

XSLT

this is what browsers should be. right now they are vms

The only thing that that website illustrates is that JavaScript is still needed.

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Look at this shit:

>did Trump do this or is it the EU's fault?
To the average consumer there's no way to tell the difference. We went wrong somewhere and it became an eternal battle for ownership rights. It's insane.

All such disputes can be readily solved by assuming the null condition: That nobody actually owns anything. When we rework everything from that mutually amicable position, we can literally reinvent sanity.

What did JS do to fix this? Nothing. It was a hacker tool that meant shiny prototyped interfaces. Do you want a shiny WWW? Do you want a WWW that's always linked to the mobile market?

We need to get back to internet basics before the dark web of the black fairy comes looking for what is ow[n]ed.

Attached: Eternity.jpg (457x301, 26K)

Reminds me of the ultimate bastardization that is X3D (VRML knockoff).

If people lack understanding of the kinds of interfaces they want to have, then they should try creating a working 3D representation of a user interface. Current UX paradigms are regressive and circular as fuck. The 2D interface can no longer show us the way forward.

are you thinking of w3schools?

>JS serves it's purpose perfectly
Too bad its purpose is fucking stupid and pointless. Just because a crackwhore sucks dick perfectly doesn't mean she's doing anything other than funding her own crack addiction. Javascript exists for its own sake, its entire ecosystem is cyclical.

Try using Jow Forums with javascript disabled.

You can. You just can’t use the catalog or quick reply and use index and replay box at the top. Less convenient but still possible.

You can't.

You just proved my point, dangus. The only argument for Javascript is, "We made it a hard dependency, so now you can't use the web without it." In other words, "It's important because it's required, because it's important, because it's required, etc." That's the same stupid cyclical logic that infects every package in the Javascript ecosystem.

Nice job missing the point retard. All the functionality of Jow Forums works perfectly fine without Javascript. It's just an unusable piece of shit.

>missing the point
The point was Jow Forums was designed to use Javascript, and without it, it sucks. In other words, "We need Javascript because we used Javascript, which is why we need Javascript." Cyclical logical is the hallmark of JS retards.

No. Jow Forums was never designed to use Javascript. Over time, they added features that used Javascript to make using the site more convenient, but from the start it was a plain HTML site, and still can be.

subtle bait is subtle

> Why would you WANT to though?
> JS serves it's purpose perfectly.
Sarcastic yet accurate. If you can say this with a straight face, you'll fool NPCs every time.

Well played sir.

> I like backend dev
Nice and all, but I don't want to know about your sex life.

> not realising that a non-functioning website is actually better

1. nuke npm
2. everything goes down
3. web goblins learn html again
4. ???
5. PROFIT

> web goblins
You mean pajeets, right?

If you want to dynamically load data to the user without using Javascript, just never close the connection, and keep feeding them HTML and CSS. Trigger calls to the server by having buttons (actually styled check boxes) reveal images, which tells the server what you want and sends more HTML over your persistent connection.

It's extremely inefficient and dumb, but it'll work. Probably.

If you want to go back to java web apps, there definitely is a way.
Jokes aside, with web assembly there probably is a way to do it. Question is why you would want that. No reason to not have a little bit of .js on your page

Couldn't you use weebsockets for that?

Nothing is holding you from having a working JS-free implementation, like user suggest, then add your accessibility-garbage-tier shit on top with JS

But look at minecraft. It's not such a silly idea. Java applets could make you big cash if you put in the hard yards.

> what is WASM web assembly

Sure, but that would require Javascript.
The above idea wouldn't require any kind of client-side scripting, beyond the usual HTML/CSS capabilities, and relies on the fact that modern browsers generally parse and display documents before they're fully sent. Thus, if you never send that final and just keep feeding CSS (to hide and display content) and HTML through the same connection, you can fool users into thinking the site is using JS.

Not much. JS is literally not needed for a functional website.

I bet this shit works in India

Except the fact that I have better things to do than cater to the autists that make up 0.001% of the userbase.

If you can basically get it down to setting up wasm and initializing a 2D/3D canvas context that could be entirely controlled by the wasn't instance, that would be your best bet. JS, css and html cancer won't be dead, but it would basically be irrelevant if all your shit is done In wasm+canvas.

You CAN probably have a single canvas that fills the screen, and expose various APIs to WASM, but then you'll have to package a GUI library along with you.
This approach is fine for games, where users already expect long load times; not so much for the usual desktop applications.

>games in browser

the purpose of browsers have been corrupted, thats what is wrong

>software engineer
>frontend
Nice joke, dumb neet.

>code artesan

Using the often used greater-than and less-than symbols as syntax is a dumb idea.

Needing to be told when a paragraph ends or starts is dumb, when even archaic nroff knows what a paragraph is.

I'm going to second this. The web should be static content only. The problem is the existing web evolved to fill a need not filled by anything else: Easy local cross platform applications. We fucked up by letting the modern web grow to fill this need, and now were sitting on a tall stack of shit. If everything was right in the world, we'd have basically the equivalent of Android apps runnable on all platforms, where permissions are granted explicitly by the user, everything is off by default, and the language used inside the container is arbitrary.

>"The WorldWideWeb (W3) is a wide-area hypermedia information retrieval initiative aiming to give universal access to a large universe of documents."
info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html

Ya, that's not so bad. It works out well for flutter fags.

People don't seem to want "new" things any more. Everyone's dug in to an insane degree. Even modern computers are running hacked code from 30+ year old servers.

>but then you'll have to package a GUI library along with you.
that can be done in a few kb, even with accessibility support included, once high-level browser APIs are available

That's because what we have was the result of tens of millions of man hours of effort. Due to how compostable and easily distributed software is, the tower we're building on is the most impressive structure humanity has yet built. Linux is still fine, although we could do with a serious competitor for sake of diversity.

>once high-level browser APIs are available
In 2024. Fucking browser development priorities.

>That's because what we have was the result of tens of millions of man hours of effort.
Sunk cost fallacy.

>the tower we're building on is the most impressive structure humanity has yet built.
It sure looks nice. It's a pity the foundations aren't so hot, and no one's sure what the lower levels are made of or how its holding up the rest of the tower.

Turn it off in your browsers settings.

>tens of millions of man hours of effort
So? It can be tens of billions of man hours. It makes no difference if its used for hacks and skin-of-the-teeth maintenance.

Checked, by completely removing all scripting ability. No, scripting languages or compiled wasm garbage at all. Remember webshits always say its not them, but someone is rewriting everything in javascript for no reason and always including as much botnet as possible. Even desktop, name one electron app that people actually use that isn't full of data mining. We're going to have to slaughter these subhumans because as you can tell by this thread all they suggest is more botnet.

Sorry I was drunk

that's moronic. I wonder how old you guys are, if you remember how shitty Jow Forums used to be. There were no links to replies on the top left of each post, you couldn't hover over a post number to read it, no quick reply box, no auto-update. It was awful people only tolerated it because we wanted to become epic hackers.

I hope you die in a car fire

>Sunk cost fallacy.
It's not all bad. There is a baby in the bathwater, and as we've seen from all the failed projects to replace what we have: Starting over isn't trivial.

I remember perfectly. Jow Forums shouldn't be a website. It's basically a chat service.

Only 20-30 years. Damn, it'll be here in no time...

>Not Using LibreJS
>2019