The learn to code meme got me thinking. Why suddenly (as in the past 5 years or so) do people suddenly think every kid needs to learn programming now? It's not like math where basic knowledge is at least applicable to many facets of life. Programming has zero application to life unless you're specifically working in a field like CS or EE.
Should they offer voluntary CS classes in high school? sure. should it mandatory for every 8 year old to learn some python? No, what the fuck.
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>Should they offer voluntary CS classes in high school?
100%, computers are a mandatory part of our world and teaching kids how they work should be a massive priority. Maybe not on the level of coding outside out the realms of shell/batch scripting but still, there should be some sort of familiarization course for kids.
>Programming has zero application to life unless you're specifically working in a field like CS or EE.
>t. neet
kids should be introduced to programming so they can see if they like it or are interested, the world needs more good programmers. We introduce them to literature and algebra but you can get through life without either
>Why suddenly (as in the past 5 years or so) do people suddenly think every kid needs to learn programming now
flood the market with applicants to reduce wages
ding ding ding
>constantly complain about labor shortage
>everyone starts to major in stem
>bring in boatloads of pajeets on h1b visas anyway
>wages "mysteriously" fall
Learning to code is pretty useless if you're not a software developer or STEM person. By coding I mean learning OOP/functional programming, data structures and algorithms. I have also seen a lot people that can't handle a basic "intro to CS course," and fail/drop out.
A better option is to teach linux administrative skills. Have schools teach the command line, and how to use vim/emacs for text processing. Also, teach how to write useful bash/python scripts. Those skills are beneficial to everyone, including plain writers and humanities majors. Just look at luke smith and check out this video, youtube.com
don't worry, most kids are struggling even learning shit like this(in pic, the stuff that's apparently making them learn how to code)
So programming wont be universal within our lifetimes
I would argue that learning a programming language is just as important as learning math. Both are instrumental in teaching people how to think logically, which society needs now more than ever
>I would argue that learning a programming language is just as important as learning math. Both are instrumental in teaching people how to think logically, which society needs now more than ever
but look at Steve Jobs, he's supposed to be the world's greatest programmer but he tried to eat carrots to cure cancer, not logical
actually we're at the point where learning basic scripting would be really fucking useful for 100% of white collar/office professions
How are programmers gonna cope with their 20k/year salary in a generations time?
>How are programmers gonna cope with their 20k/year salary in a generations time?
good programmers will always be in demand at high salary just like good plumbers
It is all a fear of governments for the onslaught computers will have in our lives. They think that almost every job would require a PC and they teach programming to the kids.
Ofcourse this is stupid. I sat exams as a translator, and people told me: " Wow, you learned all those dictionaries by heart?"
These kind of people rule us. No shit they would come up with such a shitty plan. Pretty sure someone above thought, "Computers, huh?". Called his friend Jim, and asked, "Jimmy, what were those jobs called again?", and he found out about "programmers", and thus we are here.
Though I believe they should have just shown kids how to use one, maybe even command lines, and the kids who had aptitude and wanted to learn more, they could be selected for programming.
I still laugh at the 500 millions they pooled to teach kids programming.
why did 2nd wave feminism pushed the idea for wymyn to get into serious business? Look at any salary from the 50's compared to now, its not inflation, compare the buying power. A single man could support a family of 3 with a starting 9-5 job. Now you need 2 ppl busting 60h /week each for the same buying power.
Your code camps will be mandatory by 2040 and everyone who cant be construction worker will be coder. Better prepare for it. Start selling shovels while you can, the rush will be over soon.
by selling shovels I mean, you know who got rich during the gold rush right? Not the miners, not the bankers, the shovel makers.
So start selling the idea of jurno to> coder and make a quick buck, so you have safe cushion when the crisis hit.
also this
Yes because Emmanuel the forklift driver needs to understand pointers.
Programming is a tool. For millions of years everyone used tools and the tools designed were fairly rudimentary so they could be used by the laymen. Now that everything is going digital boomers are coping to achieve that retarded standard.
Tech monopolies need staff smart enough to write something up that can work, but dumb enough to not be able write a good free program that would challenge their monopolies.
The other day I paid 1900 USD for literally 15 min of work to one plumber, the only one who went under the house to fix the problem. He got his industrial sized pump and all the tools, including a sthetoscope camera or some shit.
When you need professionals to save your ass, you pay up in gold.
Everyone wants their child to have a survival advantage. Programming is seen as very secure, like being a doctor or lawyer used to. And it's a lot cheaper and less competitive than those things, hence becoming a meme.
Also I hate it. It used to be exclusive and fun and now every stupid tween and instathot is shitting out javascript
imo learning to code is a good way to force kids into developing real problem solving skills. unfortunately the way most schools will probably go about it it will still be reduced to the same rote repitition that they ruin any subject with.
The problem is not teaching everyone to code. It's that not everyone can learn to code.
Everyone can learn to code
But only few can learn to code well
holy shit, you are fucking retarded lmao
Coding has many other applications, I work in a barristers chambers and was able to write simple programs to scan emails/diaries to generate simple spreadsheets of where people are during the day. Its a tool you can use whether professional or not.
>It's not like math
Huh? It is like math. I reckon it'd be much better to teach kids math through programming.
>Programming has zero application to life unless you're specifically working in a field like CS or EE.
I followed a minor at a uni and quite a few people weren't from CS or EE.
One girl was following Economy and another dude was... I don't remember, but it wasn't CS/EE.
Programming is also done in several fields. Not as in-depth as CS/EE perhaps, but still.
Or even
>wages stay the same
>inflation weakens them every year
>but you can get through life without either
I seriously can't stand people like you.
>HURRR I learned alllllll about the pythogorean theorem, but was never taught about doing muh taxes! Fuck the pythogorean theorem!
>Pythogorean theorem is quite fucking amazing. You didn't learn about it well enough if you don't think so.
It's so much math, I actually learned Algebra when I learned C.
Now that I've learned more about Lambda Calculus/Linear Algebra I've gotten a deeper understanding of programming itself.
There's no need to know math to know how to program, but it gives you a deeper understanding and even an appreciation for the math/programming connection.
>Programming has zero application to life unless you're specifically working in a field like CS or EE.
Nearly every office worker could automate a large part of their job if they knew how to program.
>Yes because Emmanuel the forklift driver needs to understand pointers.
I'll give Emmanuel a pointer: robotic forklifts can do his job at a much lower cost.
Here we go, some (un)common sense mentality.
Programming isn't needed in every aspect of life, no ... but where it can be applied and applied well it is gold to be made.
He’s right though
This. Due to the fact only about 1 in 3 people can even learn or understand coding it has fewer potential workers. Because of this they really drive home how many people should try it out.
Someone finally said it.
People need to “learn to code” or at least get into IT, because the other jobs are going to be automated away or replaced by robots. Then we’ll have a whole bunch of shit over “computers took away mah jerbs!” No they aren’t removing jobs, they’re just shifting jobs to a new field: the tech field. The world will need people to maintain those robots and automated systems. Get into IT or software dev or infosec now, because that’s what’s going to be more important than ever.
you only need a few programmers to automate other people's jobs, you don't need everyone to learn how to program.
Because parents are fucking stupid.n
Driving a forklift is harder than understanding pointers
So that wages decline.
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this shit on your pictute gona be mainstream IDE soon
True that. I took zero programming clases in high school and now I'm a programming machine.
Real programmers (like me) are far too busy to automate everyone's job.
But if you can make your own job a little less repetitive that's always a plus.
This. A lot of schooling is wasted time. The layperson doesn't go beyond triple digit basic mathematical operations. It's useful if you intend to do other things that require higher skill levels, but the person working at Walmart didn't need to take precalculus. Most people don't. Even then, over half of people that go into STEM -- discounting the half that tend to drop out -- don't get a major in their direct field.
Knowing calculus and linear algebra is a big brain play if you do it often enough to commit it to your memory and bust it out on a whim, but your average person has literally no use for it beyond getting their igh school diploma and forgetting all about it afterward.
don't you realize that building plataforms is automatization of jobs en masse?
you only need a few HUMANS to MAKE ALL jobs, you don't need everyone to EXIST ON THIS PLANET.
The upcoming generation is going to ensure that programing becomes a $15/hr job
only after all non programming human animals die and planet will be owned by programmers
this. everybody go home
>they’re just shifting jobs to a new field: the tech field.
Not entirely true, 30 IT guys and X people could make and maintain a system that does the job of well over 30+X emanuels, while that is not a bad thing in itself, if emanuel has no job he will be the nigger that steals and maybe kill you.
>if emanuel has no job he will be the nigger
IT would be infinitely more useful than CS.
If just 10% of adults had the CompTIA A+ certification, the world would be far more secure.
Actual programming is almost entirely useless for normal desktop productivity. Unless you’re scripting shit in Linux with python, you don’t need to know actual programming. And even then, you are far FAR beyond normal desktop use.
It would be much more beneficial to have basic understanding of hard drives, RAM, what the CPU does, how to remove bad programs, how to defragment your drive, how email works, basic command line, the differences in the various OSs, and whatnot. This knowledge is MUCH more applicable to everyone’s life than coding is. I mean, the amount of times my middle-aged mother, an exec at her company, has to call me because she can’t remember which email is her smtp address and which is her alias...
Coding is stupid for the average joe. The A+ level helpdesk technician knowledge will literally change industries. Imagine your average employee being able to create Skype for Business meetings with remote viewers without having to bill 2 hours to IT
Bitches don't know about Excel and shit.
Much of life in the young white collar work force is spend transferring data from one place to another. If even one person per office knew enough elementary python to automate these things it would be a very valuable skill to have
To answer op's question. Its like stocks, people buy the top of the market because of FOMO. People think programming is going to make them well off but fail to see that they're all rushing for the small number of jobs out there. The wages will depress because of over abundance of workers. The real deal is looking at where people AREN'T telling their kids to go, this is trades and mechanic work. Not car mechanics, those retards fucked themselves for eternity with that flat rate bullshit. Shit like plane mechanics, diesel mechanics etc. Money is made where people hate and fear to go, nobody wants to come home with hands colored black or smelling like shit so tradies will be making fucking bank.
you program yourself, it's called following a routine. It would lead to better yielded results, rather than the idiocy of people who can't even determine mouthbreathing is provoking them white spots in their throats.
>? It's not like math where basic knowledge is at least applicable to many facets of life. Programming has zero application to life
God people like you are so fucking stupid. How about every kid uses computers and should at least have some basic understanding what the hell they're doing behind the scenes? Nah, you're not bright enough to understand that concept.
Is there a coding class/video for retards like myself?
>If just 10% of adults had the CompTIA A+ certification, the world would be far more secure.
No one gives a shit about your meme cert.
>Actual programming is almost entirely useless for normal desktop productivity. Unless you’re scripting shit in Linux with python, you don’t need to know actual programming. And even then, you are far FAR beyond normal desktop use.
You are obviously an IT brainlet. Every great developer realizes how powerful this knowledge is an applies it to everything they do.
you udestend noting
NOW humans not need at all
zero buy orders for humans
mashines better in every single area
Look for Harvard online beginning programming.
>Programming has zero application to life unless you're specifically working in a field like CS or EE.
anyone who does office work can benefit from knowing programming. all business software is script-able from MS office to your in house web apps.
Computer Science will be the Typing of the future
People will wonder how it used to be a big bucks profession given that everyone learns how to do it in middle school now
the double hump
there are two distinct bezier curves when teaching people programming even in introductory classes
about 50% of people are completely incapable of learning it all
thus they're trying to get as many of the 50% who can learn into it as possible so wages can be the absolute minimum
that's like saying the skills needed for the machining required for the industrial revolution would be learned by everyone in middle school. people get paid big bucks because everything is still unsolved. thats why they get paid well, not because its particularly hard but because people don't know all the answers yet in the way we know how to make a circular saw or a conveyor belt or a combustion engine.
>Why suddenly (as in the past 5 years or so) do people suddenly think every kid needs to learn programming now?
see salary
>that's like saying the skills needed for the machining required for the industrial revolution would be learned by everyone in middle school
they are though
the theory at least
didn't you pay attention in middle school
>tfw you realize that Scratch will replace JavaScript and Node in the next 20 years
Because they want to pay less and have more options
If you want a guy to maintain the COBOL dinosaur abomination that someone welded into your service decades ago, your options consist of a handful of literal boomers and some young super-autists who picked it up for giggles.
My uncle made over 200 grand USD a year because he was a part of a handful of people in my country that knew how to maintain important government infrastructure that was written in some insanely obscure languages
Because we need GNU/Herd to be completed so we can finally send Bill Gates and Tim Cook to the GNULag
Sorry, I mean't GNU Hurd*. It part of the GNU project and we need Linus and his problematic project to be replaced.
>t. people who don't can't code
No-one well-established in this field is worried about depression of wages.
Anyone can do mass renamers in Python, but to do anything reasonably complex requires the kind of autism and dedication the masses just lack. Normies can't take staring at terminal error outputs all day.
>hahaha coding is for suckers
>teach people to use shitty free beer software and obscure text editors instead
People heard it generates a ton of money
Mathematics formalizes intuitive notions we have of what things are and how to reason about arguments amd relations; Computer Science formalizes intuitive notions of how things are done and how to reason about procedures and data. It stands to reason, personal experience, and real-world evidence that learning the formal, rigorous stuff enables the experienced to hone their intuition -- I've heard math be described as "the extension of common sense by other means." That's the real universal utility of learning these things, though of course the real tragedy is that it's done through schooling and not natural curiosity.
programming isn't mathematics
that's dumb
I was drawing an analogy because OP said it wasn't "like math where basic knowledge is at least applicable to many facets of life"
it's as much mathematics as everything in the physical universe is mathematics
programming skills dont help you in your daily life
my daily life is me sitting at my computer for 16-24 hours occasionally doing other things
programming does help
>programming skills dont help you in your daily life
That's not necessarily true.
help you with what? writing scripts to sort your porn collection?
first thing that comes to mind that i use frequently is a simple python script that rips webpages as pdfs
it uses a library that's just a python interface to a command line tool but it's great to have something that makes batch processing something like that pisseasy
yeah that's the sort of thing nobody needs to do but you can give yourself a big pat on the back for being an elite programmer writing a python script
>what mundane things do you need to do in your life with programming lol
>"well here's a mundane thing I do with python
>lol >python you don't need to do that anyways lol
have it you way I guess
This, that shits about to be blue collar tier or at least that's the plan.
Who the fuck needs a webpage as a pdr? that's the sort of thing you do just to convince yourself your own skills are useful
I've been a programmer for 25 years and I can probably count the non-work things I've done with it on one hand
like it or not shit like my vulkan based renderer isn't going to have an impact on my daily life
while a shitty python script to automate making pdfs will
elite programming is worthless but retard tier stuff isn't
i should still rewrite it in lua desu i hate python
>Programming has zero application to life unless you're specifically working in a field like CS or EE.
You can extend Excel and Word with VBScript. It's useful, but it depends heavily on which field you're in.
you mean managers would benefit from hiring programmers to automate their drones work
no, executives would benefit from firing their managers and automating their jobs and their drone's jobs
management is probably one of the most useless position besides HR (which should really just be delegated to the legal department)
He's right on the fact we need to consider IT basics something important for future generations to learn about in schools.Maybe not something too complicated , but at least giving them enough skills to make them fluent with computers , and most importantly being able to find a solution on their own when they have an IT issue.
Be honest user , as a teen/young adult , how many absolute brainlets/tech illiterates have you seen struggling with computer issues when all they need to do is know how to use google properly.
No. I mean if you find yourself sitting doing repetitive tasks in your office job you are fucking up. Also not everyone works for a soulless corporation. Increased productivity for your small business is never a bad thing.
Motor vehicles are one of the most important and mandatory parts of our lives yet a good amount of people don't even know how to change their oil themselves.
People don't need to know how computers work on this level to use and harness them, it's literally encapsulation.
To lower wages.
unironically to piss neets like you off
I didn't state otherwise.
What we really need to teach people is how to fucking google their problems.
>Programming has zero application to life unless you're specifically working in a field like CS or EE.
Being able to write your own scripts is very useful.