So now that Oracle went fuck you pay me money and Micro$oft is trying to be a good guy do we welcome C# as the new...

So now that Oracle went fuck you pay me money and Micro$oft is trying to be a good guy do we welcome C# as the new overlord of OOP programming languages and its .Net-Core framework?

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techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r17&hw=ph&test=query
b-ok.cc/book/3684832/675b30
techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=test&runid=50068a69-f68c-44fc-b8f7-2d44567e8c78&hw=ph&test=plaintext
aka.ms/aspnet/benchmarks
techempower.com/benchmarks/.
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yes, it's literally Java but better

It is a language used in shitty retarded enterprises for internal applications and that is what it will always be used as.

C# is actually one of the better if not the best OOP language for universal shit

>that is what it will always be used as.
wrong, startups have started using C# since .net core. You sound like someone who only ever used it for winforms

No, that is javascript. Node/javascript is a much better language/environment to work in for web development, desktop programming, command line applications, etc. c# is a good language relative to java, but decisions about which language to use are not made on "this has the best syntax", they are made on other things.

No, startups don't use it. You are still a student and read shill articles.

Some hardy bait

*cough*

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js is a shit language but it is ubiquitous

No it is reality. vscode isn't written in c#. uber, Netflix, etc aren't written in c#, search hacker news "who is hiring" and search languages, and you won't see c# prominently used. Kids, stop pretending you know things when you are talking to adults.

>jabascript everywhere xD

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There is nothing shit about it, other than that you have heard it is shit by retarded enterprise programmers.

I love how the level of debate quickly goes down to meaningless pictures... if you have a low IQ, stic

I love the way you put bait for the (You)s, so I gave you one.

>Node.js for backend
>JS for frontend(duh)
>Node for serverless
>JSON for databases
>Electron for GUI apps
>React Native for mobile apps (or Ionic)
>ReasonML for fast ""low-level"""" JS

Really makes you think

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No serious backend is written in JS, nor is it used in any application which values performance, efficiency or safety.
The niche of JS is to deliver front end interfaces and toy browser apps.

>Netflix
>Uber
>PayPal

A case of using a hammer for everything instead of learning what the right tool is.

javascript is the FUTURE, so DYNAMIC and PROGRESSIVE. I f*cking love Electron *s oy face*

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Tell that to most Javascript developers, lmao

Most serious backends start out in a dynamic programming language when they are created by a startup. This used to be python, but is now more often javascript and node. Once the application grows, different priorities take over and performance and stability become more important in certain parts of the application. This is usually lower than business logic level though, which is often still written in a dynamic language. For example, at Netflix, all business logic is written in javascript, and the data layer is written in java.

Java and other languages are often chosen over c# even though c# has a nicer syntax. This is because java is the language used by many of the server applications like Kafka and so on, and has better support for those applications and other things like web servers and various existing libraries and infrastructure.

There you go kids, now I have to go back to doing adult things. I hope you learnt something new today.

Are you going to tell me AWS runs their backend on Node also? There is more to programming than whatever AJAX framework of the month is.

Is it worth using Electrino

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fuck no

They just reinvent the hammer every time it breaks. Just keep downloading node packages until the errors go away.

Still too early or is it too shit in general like Electron

literally says 'do not use in production' on github

t. sophomore in highschool

Fuck you. Shitscript everywhere is atrocious, C# is also a shit but it's a million times better than a fucking wannabe browser language to script add interaction to websites.

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Ah, but the idea sounds nice, nothing wrong with creating a program using js html and css especially when js apps actually run pretty fast, its just that electron is too bloated but when electrino becomes usable it might be actually decent and worth using js for dekstop programs

The problem with JavaScript is not the syntax, it's the semantics. Its type system is legitimately garbage.

Electrino has had no commits in a long time and is dead at this point however is seems someone is working on an alternative.

It could take off if desktop operating systems start following the way of android with its webview.

Remember ieframe.ocx or mshtml.dll?

Can the most popular programming language in the world really take off?

Same idea but worse implementation. Webview actually provides a way to make drop-in replacements. Chrome and Bromite for example can replace the built-in webview, and of course webview itself can be updated independently.
I meant that there wouldn't be any legitimate criticisms anymore. Bundling a full browser with every app like electron does is fucking retarded.

Typescript is going to supplant JS anyway.

nobody uses reasonml

>Oracle went fuck you pay me money
They didn't, they release all the last proprietary bits of the JDK under a free software license as part of the OpenJDK project.
Now not only is the JRE completely free as in free beer as well as in freedom, but so is the entirety of the JDK which is great for developers as well.
Oracle JDK shouldn't even be mentioned here since it's only relevant for companies who desperately need a support contract, but again these companies can also get support from RedHat, Amazon, Azul and a couple of other companies that maintain an OpenJDK based JDK.
Saying any of this is bad is LITERAL FUD.
REPEAT AFTER ME
FUD
U
D

Yes. C# 8.0 on .NET Core is so good it's almost sickening at this point. I am still turning on tiered compilation in all my solutions. The free performance gains over time are incredible. If you need any further convincing, go watch some recent NDC conferences videos over on jewtube.

Incredible! Amazing!

Is this shilling or genuine?

> Reeee someone prefers C# over my Indian infested Java shit
> Oh I know let's accuse of shilling instead of using counterpoint and logic to present a rational technical argument to the contrary
Sounds about normie for Jow Forums

C# has its own ISO standard. Java doesn't.

Calm down, sperg, I use C# myself, your post just reads too much like shilling.

Literally everything is better than enterprise languages.
It's not the language itself, rather than designating to the enterprise public.

Do you hate constantly changing stack of JS?
Wait for never changing stack of some Java bullshit, written by your grandpa in early 90-s.

Java/C# infrastructure is not intended for programmers, its for managers. It's big, bloated and conservative. What not to like, fellow boomer, am I right?

Thoughts on C#/Java Enterpriseā„¢ infrastructure moving low/no code solutions?

>do we welcome C# as the new overlord of OOP
Nah, we just move to OpenJDK.

wow, javascript is really dominating

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>Most serious backends start out in a dynamic programming language when they are created by a startup.

Most serious backends aren't created by startups.

This isn't a thing.

>Java/C# infrastructure is not intended for programmers, its for managers.
I am actually going to stand up for Java-fags this one time (even though it is 1/10th as capable as C# in 2019). Java and C# are for people who want to actually get shit done, instead of having an autistic escapade over how a for loop should be implemented. Abstracting away shitty chores like iterating over result sets, managing asynchronous operations, collecting garbage (managing memory) and handling REST-ful API HTTP requests give us a huge amount of speed-up in our ability to actually build and deliver a product within one human lifespan. Just one small example - Kestrel on AspNetCore is easily the fastest web server on the planet when you look at relevant supported platforms. It already makes NodeJS look like a fucking joke in requests per second. Additionally, implementing json-based HTTP APIs on top of this web server is as simple as adding a base class and some method attributes.
If your interests are purely academic/hobbyist, then I would agree with you. Stick to the "fun" "hipster" languages like Go and Rust. You will probably have more "fun", assuming your definition of fun is building toy projects that can't really do anything complex or meaningful.

>Kestrel on AspNetCore is easily the fastest web server on the planet
techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r17&hw=ph&test=query

But I can write fizzbuzz in Erlang!

I clarified my assertion with 'also on relevant platform'. A meme web server written in pure c using libuv to echo a string to a caller is not something we actually care about in the real world.

Okay, fair point. If you discount languages with sizable but smaller industry adoption (like Go), C# offers probably the best performance.

>JavaScript
>type system
What type system?

Also, if you don't exclusively use Haskell/Elm, you don't get to shit on other language's Type Systems.

>ASP Core is the only full-stack framework with a great performance to feature ratio
Absolutely based!

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Uses far more RAM though.

Node is slow and NPM garbage.
You can't beat asp.net core for performance and blazor is a react/vue killer!

They use node for their blog only, not their critical products/services.

RAM is cheap now, my previous silly startup used servers with 256Go RAM just for caching with Redis.

this
Another OOP language I like is PHP from 7 and it's just getting better

>dynamic typing
Garbage.

I've never heard of Blazor. Interesting idea tbqh

What is objectively better, VB.NET or C#?

Naaaaa it's a stupid garbage without any future.

DotNetCore + C#8

Looks like it's already as mature as Angular or React but much faster because it uses WebAssembly:
b-ok.cc/book/3684832/675b30

Now that everything's moving to a cloud-hosted docker-hoisted microservice structure, there's really no need to stick with the ancient, stiff language that is Java.

Retarded docker has nothing to do with cloud based shits.

Looking for real work? Java/Spring backend, Javascript frontend.
C# is a copy of java that does well in the corporate market, but not as well as java.

It's not just that but since Oracle decided to do away with JRE's we're now left with no option but to use JDK's in all our containers. So if you want to use Java 12, you're stuck with a 0.5 GB image. Now there is a way around this, you make your own JRE using Jlink and the module system introduced in Java 9. Unfortunately a lot of frameworks and libraries still don't support modularisation, so it just can't be used.

Wew lad.

I really like C# but it seems most companies on Indeed using it are enterprise jobs that are still stuck in the Microsoft-only world even if the language is fully cross-platform now. The only exception is for Unity jobs which pay far less.
tbqh it's unfortunate that we have very capable languages that are much more productive and have better tooling than C++ and yet all the non-enterprise interesting jobs are still on C++.

techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=test&runid=50068a69-f68c-44fc-b8f7-2d44567e8c78&hw=ph&test=plaintext

these benchmarks are not on .NET Core 3.0, which is ~ 15-20% faster, MS has internal benchmarks running 24/7 in case a merge fucks something up, u can see them here: aka.ms/aspnet/benchmarks

Linux + dotnetcore is the new way to go stack for 2020+ businesses.

Oracle is only charging you for using Java 8, they're at Java 11 now. They're just forcing boomers to stop using oldass software.

Lmfao the last weeks have ultimately proven that there are paid .NET shills on this board.

First of all Java is still free see Second of all, the .NET-Core ecosystem is a joke. It has always and still lacks tons of libraries especially when it comes to cryptographic libraries.
What's worse is the "c# is a so much better language than Java" shit I keep hearing. Which Java are you talking about? Java 6? Java has evolved and I don't see how C# is so much better nowadays. Even if that were true, there is absolutely no fucking way C# could even remotely complete with Kotlin.
Even when it comes to real world performance, .NET Core sucks. It's getting outperformed by every JVM microframework techempower.com/benchmarks/.
>inb4 benchmarksgame
That's not a real world benchmak and their benchmarks are flawed as well.

Oracle is terrible, teeerriiibleee!

My work here is done.

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Is that why NO ONE is actually using it apart from Bing and Stackoverflow? kek

And people haven't even benchmarked JVM frameworks with GraalVM yet. Twitter for example already uses GraalVM. No one is using .NET core apart from smelling Pajeet shills.

looks like another .net garbage.

>blazor is a react/vue killer
not gonna happen. Many frontend fags have a JS or bust mindset

I don't have a problem with JS or bust, but when JS involves completely unnecessary shit like React and Angular, its almost worth jumping to a different perspective. I personally code most of my frontends in vanilla JS, with aspnetcore on the backend hosting the static web content and JSON API. The new browser APIs are so good there's really no reason to use someone's bullshit layer on top anymore. Blazor will be interesting to me when they can do a direct compile to WASM without the need for a separate JS runtime (linker/tree shaking).

>The new browser APIs are so good there's really no reason to use someone's bullshit layer on top anymore.
Can you give an example?

If you didn't know Java was a terrible language you wouldn't be trying to use Kotlin as a crutch. As a Kotlin user I'm offended. Clearly you don't get why people are moving to .NET.

Cute benchmarks, though. It must be fun to live in a fantasy world where anyone cares about ideal performance.

I am not using Kotlin at all. Nevertheless it's a great language for brainlets.
I only use Scala.

>Clearly you don't get why people are moving to .NET.
Why don't you tell me then? Tell me exactly what C# makes so much better than Java. You've got 3 minutes. Anything that comes later than that is googled shit.

This unironically. It's useful enough to create a email server. Good luck using anything for real work like Spark, Hadoop, Zeppelin, et cetera. C# is for small businesses and THAT'S IT!

Doesn't matter how modern the language is if Big N doesn't use it.

Nobody cares about startups. Netflix didn't build Eureka in C#.

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I use Scala too but you have to admit the language is so complicated. Nonetheless it has some cool tricks and I find running map operations in it much easier than the .stream().collect() garbage in Java.

I don't think Scala is complicated. Scala is very expressive and you can turn it into very something complicated. I think what gives Scala its reputation are the things that have been built around it with its DSL like SBT. SBT on the other hand is something I would call complicated.
As far as Java goes I think it has improved a lot. I can understand it's not easy for people to wrap their head around the newer APIs like Stream, Flow etc but once you get the hang of it it works quite well. Type inference made Java a lot less verbose too. I think they're planning to implement Data Classes as well (JDK 13?) so you don't have to write getters and setters yourself anymore.

It definitely is flexible. Recently I used "a zip b" to zip two lists together and it blew my mind. There are some cool things. Sometimes I write mapreduce functions that are way too long and I lose the context but I try to write human readable code.

I'm still learning Stream but I've never used Flow. Never even heard of Flow honestly (I use Java 8 at work).

>Data Classes
Oh fuck, I hope they introduce Data Classes. I don't like lombok that much (not a fan of plugins doing code generation for me) but a Data Class would really help reduce the boilerplate.

Nobody in this thread made a good point about Java itself. just jobs and big corps.
You have from here until Java devs eat their own words again and consider {feature that existed for decades in many PLs} for JEP that they considered harmful before to make a good point about Java, the language and its frameworks.

>Nobody cares about startups
Just because you don't doesn't mean nobody does. .NET Core didn't exist when Netflix was building eureka, and not everyone uses Netflix's stack

There is no upside using .NET core instead of the JVM ecosystem. There just isn't. JVM has better performance and a way better ecosystem. Actually, .NETs ecosystem is a joke compared to Java's. C# as an argument doesn't cut it because you can just as well use Kotlin, Scala, Groovy etc if you don't like Java.

>people haven't even benchmarked JVM frameworks with GraalVM yet
umm, sweetie...

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>benchmarksgame
These guys are the LinusTechTips of benchmarks

you can't replace everything with jvm languages

Neither can you replace everything with .NET/C#.