No gf

What child?

Fufilling doesn't mean what you think it means. It doesn't mean meaningful (though my job is) it means : "making someone satisfied or happy because of fully developing their character or abilities"

Which is pretty easy. You just need not to be a depressed facist fuck.

It's not a personal bias when he insinuates this need in his post

>assuming social competence implies being less tech savvy
no I'm better than you at that too

That isn't the correct interpretation but okay

>it's not personal bias when he insinuates this need in his post
OP talked about a multitude of things working together to create misery, just "getting laid" will not solve all of them, unless the poster is prepared to justify that assumption.

sort of like a commune? I don't feel like it will work when it's just "any tight-knit community". Hipsters tried that, and it just falls apart really quick. The most sustainable ones center around religion, but even then they have a miriad of other problems.

starts off with
>no gf

the most stale and commonly cited insecurity on Jow Forums
>most software you use is botnet, rendering any political action impossible

these can all be summed up as "no one cares about me"
>no one will care about my programming projects when i'm done, both recreational and proprietary
>no one cares what distro of loonix you poured your time and effort into learning
>no legacy

so absolutely no fresh ideas/riveting insights/thought put into these whatsoever sounds like a lonely kid that wants to get laid to me

so what happens when you get laid? Which of these go away? Only the first one? what about all the other ones? How will getting laid contribute to your legacy?

this, we are truly simplistic beings, you aspire great things and stress yourself over your long term goals but you get a gf or get laid regularly and you either stop caring completely or atleast not worry so much

and yes i speak from experience as a former 27 year old virgin

Because the point of the other ones is to do it for yourself and generate personal/career growth.

The last three are only concerns to him because of judgement. And if you have healthy confidence this judgement won't and shouldn't matter.

>commune
maybe, not quite, say a small society
everyone works, say technicians, plumbers,janitors each with their own individual lives but then they meet online on a forum to talk about/discuss specific things and collaborate to make things.
>just falls apart really quick
yeah I realized this, i think its due to personality differences always and I think it would fall apart only if people where to meet each other, know how they look and names and even know about personal lives, where as what I'm try to represent would be made up avatars so to say with each bringing their best self and contributions in anyway but it's important not to talk about the real life person you but have something that represents you.
maybe this will help understand
I knew someone once, I sat next to in class for almost a year, it was some computer related class, he knew each other in an MMO and were good friends and long story but we figured out that we were literally sitting right next to each other, he was a cool dude but it's not the same.
it's like the digital world lets you represent yourself and ideas better this could be important for them to not fall apart

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You no longer worry about such trivial bullshit.
Find yourself a female dopamine/oxytocin dispenser asap.

>most software you use is botnet, rendering any political action impossible
Shitposting on twitter isn't political action.

Did you know?
Most psychologists believe that smiling is a learned response that encourages social cohesion. However people born blind still smile when happy.
Also, rats and mice smile when you tickle their tummies.
Have a nice day user.

>>most software you use is botnet, rendering any political action impossible
citation fucking needed?

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>Also, rats and mice smile when you tickle their tummies.
CUTE.

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i think this is just a hyperbolic way of expressing the fact that most direct/effective methods of political subversion are severely hindered in as far as execution or stealth when your location, communications, purchases, interests, etc. are constantly being tracked and accessible to the government you hope to subvert, let alone if you want to work with anyone else

what's the binding element? shared values? similar creative focus?

what kinda stuff would you want to see people create? what kinda stuff do you create?

>>no gf
speak for yourself
>>most software you use is botnet, rendering any political action impossible
why would i take any political action? I'm retarded, that's left for the slightly less retarded and slightly more manipulative 'professionals' who do that for a living, not internet autists who ree online about there not being X number of [insert gender-race here] folk and retard sceptics who bitch and moan about there being those in the first place. The world is moving towards authoritarianism anyways and i honestly don't give a shit because i can innawoods if it comes to that (which it won't for at least 40+ more years).
>>no one will care about my programming projects when i'm done, both recreational and proprietary
portfolios my innocent little retard
>>no one cares what distro of loonix you poured your time and effort into learning
sure they don't care abotu distros but companies do care about whether you are able to do basic shit in linux or not.
>>no legacy
make one retard. A man is defined by their actions. Hitler is just a name, his actions are what defined him. Act unto this world and shape it by your will.

these digits suggest I should find someone to tickle my tummy

Hitler's legacy is fucking gone though. His legacy are some irl retards and then a bunch of power-level hiding people who don't have any real power anyways.

>and yes i speak from experience as a former 27 year old virgin
how did you get a gf in that situation?
or did you switch to homo sex

Doubly if youre a blind mouse, apparently.

C O M F Y
O
M
F
Y

nothing lasts. why bother yourself with this shit, nothing literally anyone has done will keep their name spoken until the end of humanity, which is going to be a blip on the fucking universal radar unless we achieve singularity/practical invincibility before we self-destruct as a species anyway, and that shit only looks less likely as time passes

get used to the fact that nothing you or anyone else does will matter forever and life will be easier user. be happy if people you care about think of you on their deathbeds, and if your memory lasts a few generations beyond that, you probably beat out 99% of humanity.

shared values sounds about right, but the more I think about it in detail the more I see how it will fail, but then again going back to what I said as long as people don't learn personal things and stay distant but close it could work.
eh maybe the idea is childish
>what kinda stuff would you want to see people create?
anything that makes life better I guess, could be anything either in a technology sense or an artistic sense
as a simple example you could say making addons for blender or firefox and making a comic/manga or music.
>what kinda stuff do you create?
well I draw stuff, but I want to go in more on both technological and artistic, make vidya,small programs for specific tasks or attempt bigger software,music and better art that people would enjoy just like I enjoy other's stuff.
If it were real i wouldn't be a good contributing member but im working on it and its fun, acquiring new knowledge its good.

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I think he's imagining worst case scenario, where he becomes some sort of influential political figure, but then his digital footprint could be used against him

yeah, i feel like there's a conflict between the type of sharing and collaboration you're wanting and the limits on how well you get to know people personally. if people are making stuff they care about, politics/preferences/individual details will inevitably work their way into the art

that said, I think the risk is worth it. if it fails eventually, whatever, it'll still be nice for what was created in the meantime

some artistic groups and philosophical groups have attempted something along the lines of what you're talking about before user, look into that shit. btw, nice taste in art. good luck

Potentially. How do you cope with that then? What is a logical justification to keep on living in that case?

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I can't answer that for you, and hopefully you don't let anyone else do it either. There is no right answer. More importantly: Does living need to be "justified"? Do christians-turned-athiests suddenly commit suicide once they realize invisible sky daddy was a silly myth?

If all you live for is a creating a legacy, do you think you could look back on that in your deathbed consider that a life well-lived?

It is your responsibility to determine what you think your life is worth spending on, and you'd better think long and hard about it if you want to avoid your psychological foundation crumbling or falling into some ego-protective loop of mediocrity until you die or cave in and end it.

If any of this is making sense to you, or it's something you want to grasp, start looking into philosphers like Nietzsche--and I don't mean the saturday morning cartoon pop-phi retard version of Nietzsche everyone uses to act like they have any grasp of his ideas, I mean actually read his shit until you understand it. I'm espousing a very basic version of what is generally referred to as existential nihilism.

Simple version: You are your own master, and (if you want to have any confidence in how and why you live your life) it is your responsibility alone to set rules and goals for yourself to live by and live up to. This requires being painfully truthful to yourself about yourself and the world around you.

I'm not special.I'm working towards it, poorly, but I am nowhere near a path to the type of actualized self I'd like to be. Personally I'm a pragmatist that wants humanity to prosper and I want to do way more than I'm currently doing to progress that goal. That said, I'm trying to be patient with myself and stay realistic. Some days I feel like it appears OP feels: Hopeless. Fortunately, through a lot of time and a lot of struggle, most days my rational mind is capable enough to win out over depression.

>muh optimistic nihilism
objectively you have no point to living based on the premises you've just stated, why not kys and call it a day?

>*tip
>muh "life is what you make it" (aka: "i'll pretend my life has any value")
>points to Nietzche for life advice
>"I'm an exishtenshual nihilisht"
>do things for yourself
>im a pragmatischt who wants hyumanyity to prosper and live long
>i want to progress the goal of manking prospering, because i'm sure someone gives a shit about me
>trying to stay realistic
>realistic
>somedays i feel hopeless, but i just keep rationalizing why my pointless life is worth living despite everything i just highlighted (in other words, i'm a massive fucking hypocrite)
cringe

just skip the middle man and kys user, at least then you would die true to your words and supposed philisophical outlook. Don't half-ass nihilism, it just makes you look like a desperate retard. Either accept it and come to its logical conclusion (suicide) or pretend to accept it and keep rationalizing your pointless life (until you kys anyways), or just drop that shit and reevaluate your childish unwashed fedora-tier outlook on life, you fucking faggot.

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You sound nonsentient

There is no logical justification for living
everyone has a sense of purpose coming from inside of themselves

>I always dream about a good community with same interests
retards like you who think they're being persecuted by the 'botnet' or some other external force will just start to persecute each other once they form their own society

christians turned atheists are not being fully logical when they decide to not an hero once they switch. Logically you should an hero because suffering is real and pleasure is not as said.

>there is no logical justification for being
I feel like this assertion is almost as valid as a skydaddy a priori assumption. Everything in the world has a reason, like there is a "logical reason" why there is a chair where you sit, and there is a house where you live. Some faggots had to pick up stones, wood, etc. to build that shit and it's very understandable why it exists. Similarly many many other things, you can logically explain why it happens. And then there's us, the only thing we can't logically explain is why we fucking exist.
>inb4 category error

so what's your solution then, faggot? How do you rationalize going on with life and trying to stay alive?

there's a logical reason for why you use a chair or why you live in a house, but there is no logical reason for you existing, you can try to make one up but you'll always be making it up, you'll always be depressed, stuck in an uphill struggling trying to pretend your reason actually means something when it doesn't
You can try going full materialist and saying "I exist to biologically reproduce" but anyone with any common sense can see that isn't the full picture
You have to attain true, spiritual knowledge of self to understand the reason for your existence

elaborate.
>spiritual knowledge
are you saying religion? This is pretty hand-wavy, and i'm curious how you justify your version against any common religion.

It's really sad to see great minds get extinguished by meaningless lust.

is this why many great minds never married?

Because religion teaches you to find meaning without instead of finding it within. That you should follow their rules and believe their stories and that will provide meaning. It's a false meaning like any other. You have to go inside and find your own spirit and understand how it feels instead of listening to a religion tell you how things are. Attempting to solve nihilism by listening to your lower mind, your thoughts, doesn't work

>find your own spirit
are you talking about a tangible thing or some metaphorical thing? In any case, describe it more.

> i have no objective reason handed down by the universe to live
> guess I'll just die then

why would you ever think this makes sense

you are actually retarded. when I said:
>and I don't mean the saturday morning cartoon pop-phi retard version of Nietzsche everyone uses to act like they have any grasp of his ideas

...you are the retard in this example, acting as though you grasp nihilism

> logical
i don't think that word means what you think it means

> Logically you should an hero because suffering is real and pleasure is not...
please give me the premises that make this a necessarily true conclusion

>Everything in the world has a reason
> tables exist because we make them, ergo tables have a "logical reason"

> And then there's us, the only thing we can't logically explain is why we fucking exist
by your logic, you exist because a sperm fertilized an egg in your daddy's womb and then the resulting cell divided enough times with enough nutrients and the proper conditions for you to be born

try again

christ

what if I told you literally everything is arbitrary? what if babies weren't conditioned to believe that they needed a "purpose" to live based on societal influence as a result of some archaic protestant cultural morays? what if--

>spiritual knowledge
lmao nevermind

>inb4 "virgin" etc
i actually regularly consider abandoning all efforts towards romance/sex so that it doesn't limit my ability to achieve more important goals. it's just a biological urge and it can be suppressed/sublimated pretty effectively and cheaply. also there are hookers but that's riskier from multiple perspectives

Well believe it is tangible, it's your 'mind' above your emotional mind or even your thinking mind, it's your intuitive mind, what I would describe as your feelings but not feelings as in emotional feelings. That's the only part that of yourself that can enlighten you about the purpose of life, your life in particular, but many people have trouble truly connecting with it, especially if you're extremely rational or materialistic and you believe you can use your thinking mind for everything

>what if babies weren't conditioned to believe that they needed a "purpose" to live based on societal influence as a result of some archaic protestant cultural morays?
Most people these days aren't conditioned to believe they need a purpose it life. It results in hedonism and depression

assuming this is true, I'd posit that this is because these same people are not given the tools to think well or understand the world well and are awash in a society of corporate and bureaucratic entities which collectively push them to be mindless consumer automatons performing unfulfilling work by manipulating their biological impulses

unrelated: seriously though, why does everyone think not having an "objective" or "logical" reason to live automatically means you should just die? where is everyone parroting this retarded sunday school mantra from?

if you got placed in a sensory deprivation chamber with no reason to believe you'd ever have a way out, would you just immediately kill yourself? if the rest of humanity disappeared tomorrow, would you jump off a bridge? you don't think ANYTHING is worth trying first? this isn't even just about being stupid, but also being... i dunno, bland

>assuming this is true, I'd posit that this is because these same people are not given the tools to think well or understand the world well and are awash in a society of corporate and bureaucratic entities which collectively push them to be mindless consumer automatons performing unfulfilling work by manipulating their biological impulses
I agree
but your use of the word 'unfulfilling' implies that there IS something fulfilling, which is quite close to meanining
The classic nihilist is someone who rightly recognizes and rejects all inherited meanings, religious and otherwise, as false, but doesn't know how to take the next step and find true meaning, usually because they're only looking at the world through a logical lens which will never provide it

>your use of the word 'unfulfilling' implies that there IS something fulfilling, which is quite close to meanining
false

what you're missing about nihilism and "meaning" are two very important qualifiers: 'inherent' and 'objective'

nothing about the observable universe provides us with any objective evidence that anything is more than an arbitrary coincidence. this does not mean that you can't decide on some values, pursue them, and be fulfilled in the process (and logic is an extremely useful tool in this process for the record); it just means that the universe doesn't provide training wheels to help you do so

my suggestion that anyone even attempts to have values and pursue them is based on my own values, i mean feel free to wallow in the void and jerk off until you die, I just think that's a waste of potential

the only reason we give a shit about "meaning" as a species anyway is that our unique big good brains so happen to seek significance in the patterns patterns we observe, this (and not understanding anything about the world) is why our dumbass ancestors started making the myths that developed into religions anyway

>nothing about the observable universe provides us with any objective evidence that anything is more than an arbitrary coincidence
you can observe your own thoughts and observe their desire for meaning, and you can take that as evidence, or you can dismiss it as a faulty brain program
>be fulfilled in the process
yes but what is "fulfillment"? Isn't that meaning? And what makes someone feel fulfilled? It's certainly not the same for everyone

>you can observe your own thoughts and observe their desire for meaning, and you can take that as evidence, or you can dismiss it as a faulty brain program
sure. if you analyze these things clearly and rationally, I think you're most likely to come to the latter conclusion.

>yes but what is "fulfillment"?
>what makes someone feel fulfilled?

i just realized we're having a semantic issue, and if we keep talking I suspect we're gonna have a bunch lol. the problem here is that language is garbage.

Reviewing your posts, I think you're talking about "meaning" in the sense that people speak of having "purpose" in life. In this way I see how "meaning", "fulfillment", and "purpose" can be conflated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're referring to "fulfillment/meaning" as a something like a state of having a clear goal in life (perhaps with associated values and beliefs) that one is content with, or some fundamental component of such a state.

When I'm talking about "fulfillment" in this context, I'm referring to something more like "satisfaction". after you eat a hamburger and you feel satiated, we wouldn't generally say you're feeling any "meaning". when you make a plan, work hard to achieve a goal, accomplish it, and then look back on your work, the feeling you get--that's what I'm talking about. obviously not everyone achieves exactly the same feeling from these experiences, or from these same types experiences, or at all, but hopefully I've cleared up what I mean by "fulfilling".

when I say:
>nothing about the observable universe provides us with any objective evidence that anything is more than an arbitrary coincidence.
I'm discussing "meaning" effectively as though it meant "importance". The distinction I'm trying to make is that nothing is inherently important--until we apply values. For instance, having a consistent supply of clean oxygen is important to me if I value survival, but if don't value surviving, it ceases to be significant.

goddamn these recaptcha images are fading in/out so slowly they're taking literal minutes to complete, I'm losing my fucking mind

i need to sleep and be ready for my shit job tomorrow but I'm happy to keep talking about this bullshit if you're interested and the thread doesn't die before I get home

>you are the retard in this example, acting as though you grasp nihilism
projection/10

>why would you ever think this makes sense
by the power of arbitrary morality (the kind where i pretend any of it makes a fucking difference), i do you a favour by saving you time and wasted effort by suggesting the logical conclusion of a worldview where everything is arbitrary and meaningless. If you act as though there is meaning and yet preach nihilism, then either you are A) retarded, B) don't grasp nihilism, C) are a hypocrite, or D) all of the above.

>logic is what i say it is, despite everything being arbitrary and subjective.

>*tip

>i consider abandoning sex/procreation because i'm too much of a pathetic fuck to get even that right.
>i want to dedicate myself to """"higher ideals""""
fuck you sound like a narcissistic retard, kys and save everyone else the wasted effort.

I'm not here to preach solutions, you said yourself you only want to huff your own farts anyways. I'm just here to shit on you and your childish notions.

when it comes to life, meaning, purpose and fulfillment are the same thing. If you have meaning you are fulfilled, and if you are fulfilled you probably have meaning (although people can settle for lower levels of fulfillment than what's possible for them)

I think things are inherently important, which is an important distinction for people suffering from nihilism to make, because they think that anything can have meaning so long as they apply meaning to it. Rather than imposing meaning, you need to find it within yourself

Nah I still worry about the same shit I did before getting laid. I think you're just projecting your own passive-nihilist faggotry.

>things are inherently important, yet you have to go inside to find their meaning
huh?

Not the guy you were talking to, but fulfillment is very unimportant, or satisfaction as you say it. If I eat a cheeseburger, that will make me feel temporarily better, but it won't come close to imposing a value structure like something meaningful does. Eating a cheeseburger doesn't suggest any goals (except possibly eating more cheeseburgers), it doesn't add meaning to your existence, it's a small version of taking drugs. This is also the same feeling you get when you accomplish a goal, say, in programming. When you get that job, you get a very similar endorphin boost that you get from eating a cheeseburger. The one from getting a job a google lasts a bit longer tho (2-3 weeks usually) but then it wears off. That phenomenon is relatively easy to obtain.

Meaning on the other hand, something that tells you "do this, or follow these values and you will feel true, permanent bliss when you die/sometime later in life", is very hard to get, if not impossible. That's why religion is still popular, because it fills this void, and tells you that in this dynamic, ever changing world, if you follow certain rules, you will live a) a better life on average and b) you will live in bliss forever after you die. Can anyone provide a meaning like that that is not a religious argument?

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there are things that are inherently important to you personally as a human being, as in things that aren't just a product of your perception but remain true regardless of what you tell yourself. That's where you find meaning

for example?

>30 years old
>working for less than entry level wage for america (because in europe)
>gf is leaving me
>no friends
>no hobbies or interests except programming
what do?

It's kind of pointless to provide an example because it's different for every person
I've been working on the same project for 10 years and I haven't been paid for it yet

I fucking knew it was this doujin. Holy shit.

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if I take away your program, will you lose meaning to your life? If I take your program and remove it from all places where it's hosted, will your life lose meaning?

it wouldn't lose meaning, but I'm not sure what I'd do

well then according to my def you don't have meaning, since that program only guarantees short endorphin boosts, and doesn't provide for a permanent gratification.

your definition of meaning isn't correct
you don't feel 'permanent bliss', I don't even feel bliss right now, but I feel meaning
It's about doing the right thing in the right situation instead of having one rule to follow

Okay, but where's the link?

you're evading the questions again, what is the "right thing"? Are you trying to make some form of stoic argument here?

what question am I evading?
The right thing depends. There is no static rule or set of rules like a religion. The idea that you can follow some basic rules and everything guaranteed to be great for you is obviously stupid and immature and makes me think you're being facetious

how does one find the right thing to do in a given situation?
>inb4 you know
again, I can get endorphin boosts with drugs. Give a more permanent solution plz.

you know
there is no permanent solution
looking for a permanent solution is the ultimate denial of life because you're switching off your own intuition so you don't have to bear your own existenial pain
if you think drugs provide adequate meaning, then use them and see how your life turns out

>speak for yourself

the fact he needs to say this is the first reason why he masturbate all day like a monkey

this
have sex op

you're insecure and you have no idea what you're talking about

>all that shit
whatever helps you cope, faggot.

>Can anyone provide a meaning like that that is not a religious argument?
A meaning of "eternal life" that isn't non-sense is about living outside of time. Eternal as in "time doesn't matter on how I live", not as in "life that never ends". There, it could feel more of a philosophical argument more than a religious one. But even what "living outside of time" means could very well rely on religious sentiment.

You locked yourself in despair, but the thing is, despair is like a closed door that opens outwards and you happen to pull rather than to push. Ask yourself: why did I get myself into such a situation? And try to get out of the stinky room you locked yourself into.