Why are software dev jobs so low outside of the US?

in seattle everybody i know with >5 years of experience is making >200k

Shit...can't do that in NC.

how do people not easily get by on 100k? my dad got 95k and had a wife(didn't work) with 5 kids to feed and we got by well
was it budgeting? can't ask him, he's dead

Only poorfags care about money

because the rest of the world isnt a giant housing bubble like california is

The economy is becoming totally fucking warped. 250K homes are becoming the norm, people who actually work in factories are getting the shaft while people who work with intellectual (imaginary) property get richer every day. Sage for offtopic.

Even if you ignore culture and talent pools

They just simply have the money, google wants devs so it pays them well, FB, MS, Apple

All the same

What does this have to do with anything? More wealth is better than less.

Because after tax it's not as much and then your lifestyle changes

If you were on min wage pay check to paycheck and then you suddenly had $750/m extra are you gonna tell me your food budget ain't gonna change

Also mostly debt, House, car, phone, internet will take most of it, god forbid you have kids

It's not about "getting by" it's about saving as much as possible now before it falls apart.
Besides more money makes everything easier.

Dev here and I consider myself an underperformer. I'm closer to the 75k range

Most tech companies are based in US, CA specifically, Bay area more specifically. This area has the highest cost of living than any other place on the planet.

They make 100k+ but it's actually more like 70k when you factor in rent, cost of living, taxes, etc.

I don't believe that Aus figure at all, unless theres a different defintion for the role

I make 40k after tax in retail in Aus

100k is the average across all of the U.S. The people in the Bay Area make at least 200k.

This

In a lot of countries that's still above average wage, as living costs there are lower than in the US.

Also the US average is inflated by Silicon Valley baseddrones that earn $200k but still have to live in an RV. Your market is all sorts of fucked.

by getting by well, I mean he saved for a few years and bought a sports car for whatever reason

Yes, my food budget wouldn't change. Since I'm able to afford all the curry paste, spices, chicken breast, rump, round, gluten powder, okay quality onions sauce (at least it isn't kikkoman trash) and so on I want on sub minimum wage here (I earn far more per hour but work jack shit hours per week).
I've worked full time and earned far more before, my budget didn't change at all. I just had far more in savings at the end of each month. It's one of the reasons why I went back to working bugger all hours.
Only retards go into debt for a car, and your mortgage shouldn't be taking up more than about 40% of your post tax income, 50% at most. Phone and internet are jack shit in terms of cost as well.

> then you suddenly had $750/m extra are you gonna tell me your food budget ain't gonna change
It wouldn't for me. I'd probably feel more comfortable eating out often, but I wouldn't start buying more expensive food for no reason. I'd still shop at my local grocery store and buy the same stuff.

>Also mostly debt, House, car, phone, internet will take most of it, god forbid you have kids
But everyone pays for that stuff too.

That average is heavily skewed by Silicon Valley workers. There's not that many software dev games outside CA.

The US is vastly more integrated with the stock market. This means (more or less) that companies that generate wealth get more money, and companies that don't, get their funding removed. This forces companies to be more productive. At the end of the day, the high limit on salary is how productive an employee is. Since employee productivity is in significant part determined by how productive the company is as a whole, US employees get more.

In the EU, funding is more banking based, and banks don't like showing losses and bad investments. So they stick around with bad ones until it's too late.

This is the biggest one, but as others have said before me, bureaucracy and taxes also hold them back. Also, a lot of European governments hand out money to local firms to (((protect))) them, the result of which is that they get rewarded for political loyalty, and not high productivity.

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because you need to be making $80k in SF unless you want to be homeless

How the fuck is anyone's work worth $800 a day unless they're directly in charge of other peoples' well-being and safety?

>The people in the Bay Area make at least 200k.
nah

>Only retards go into debt for a car
this, it's so easy to get a good reliable car off craigslist for a few grand and have it work for years

There are plenty of jobs outside the Bay Area.

>and your mortgage shouldn't be taking up more than about 40% of your post tax income, 50% at most.
LOL yeah great advice

That's a 1mil $ home on like 100k if you get a decent interest rate

I'm the same, but one can't live like this forever. If you want a family and kids, your wife/gf is going to want a lot more money.

/thread

> it's so easy to get a good reliable car off craigslist for a few grand
Yes, if you have a few grand saved up. That's hard to do with a min wage job while also paying bills. You will have almost no spending money left over. It'd take a long time just to save $5k. Most people never have to worry about it because they get their first car in their early late tens/early adulthood and work a min wage without paying bills.

I might make just 50k after getting my computer science bachelor, but that's still above average income. I paid a total of 2200 $ for all of my university fees.

American society is a joke

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Thots begone!

Depends where you are in your career. Grads make shit money, but seniors will make over 100k on average.

payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary

joboutlook.gov.au/Occupation.aspx?code=2613

my roommate whose 28 just got a car good car for $800

>min wage
>spending money
that's how you stay poor

I paid $0 for university and earned 25k each summer from internships.

What makes it a good car?

I have a gf, she really doesn't care. The main cost I see in the future is the education of my children since K-12 education of a decent quality costs a fuckload where I live. However, I already have a decent portion of that saved and can always work more.
That's presuming I have kids though. My gf is infertile, and I've had 13 kids that I don't know through sperm bank donations and can have plenty more (no limitation on number in my state) so I don't really feel the need to do much more.
That's standard shit here, 33% of pre-tax income is the most that most banks will allow you to do.

>good car for $800
no way

it fits his needs perfectly.

Swiss here,
I doubt that number. That's really not a high salary in Switzerland, at least if you have a master's degree.

lol that char is bs. no software dev in australia earns 48k/yr. i havent even graduated and i get paid $40/hr as a junior dev

LOL

Yeah his need for a car that fucking starts when he bought it

okay, one of the windows didn't roll down, but we fixed that was because the wires were connected in all the way

>just got a car good car for $800
BS. That shit is a disaster waiting to happen. I remember someone tried to sell me some car under $3k before and it looked great. Didn't seem to have any problems from what I saw with my limited car knowledge. Thank god I had a personal mechanic check it out. Turns out the engine was completely fucked. It was a ticking time bomb he said. You need to be careful what you buy.

>that's how you stay poor
user you have to pay bills.

What year/model/miles?
For $800 it must be some shit heap.

Not that person, but here for a car to be sold and registered you need to get a certificate from a qualified mechanic saying it's fine. You can get cars with those for sub $1000 USD here, although it will probably only last about 5 years more.

So you are in agreement then that its a quality car?

2000 buick century 180k miles, it was actually $1000 but he haggled down to $800

Dude I live in a city with 200k-1M homes with average wage being under 20k. I blame international speculation for the state of the real estate market everywhere.

>33% of pre-tax income is the most that most banks will allow you to do.

Yes, financial guys always say that ideally your mortgage or rent should be at most 25% of your monthly income. Beyond that you are chipping away at your financial security.

>2000 buick century 180k miles
"quality car"

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>2000 buick century 180k miles

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>That's standard shit here, 33% of pre-tax income is the most that most banks will allow you to do.

It's not standard if 33% is the max the bank will do....

Do the maths

>But it's not quality because reasons
Good argument, my dude

Wrong on so many levels. Being listed forces your company to generate profits every quarter. Therefore management makes decisions which are good for short-term but undermining the company in the long run.

There are shitload of successful private companies and companies which doesn't need to expand in order to sustain their business model.

Also one gets more productivity gains by offloading the work into low-wage countries than by just offering great wages.

Standard as in mode, not average or median. Most people in the lower and middle class here max out their leverage.

have fun with dumping 5000 and and being in debt for years then

>What is the equivalent of US dollars?

$5000 is a biweekly paycheck

Does not matter unless buying imported goods.

The LG8 engine can last 250k miles incredibly easily as long as you kiss it every day. The gearbox is a bit more of a worry, but it should last a fair while longer as well. If the dude is someone who doesn't travel much that car could do him for a decade or more without any major work needed.

Wait, every transfer of car ownership is burdened with this? Who is paying for all these certificates?

Why go into debt

If the $800 car is fine and your roommate seemingly had the $1000 before haggling and can afford insurance, registration/tax, fuel and oil changes

Why can't that money go towards the 5k and get a car a bit later? Also 5k debt is fucking nothing, depends on the interest rate

>Being listed forces your company to generate profits every quarter.
Then explain Uber, Lyft, Netflix etc.

>There are shitload of successful private companies and companies which doesn't need to expand in order to sustain their business model.
I never said there weren't, but it depends on your definition of "shitload". Nevertheless, those companies are in the same labor market as stock market companies, so it doesn't really matter.

>Also one gets more productivity gains by offloading the work into low-wage countries than by just offering great wages.
So why aren't Silicon Valley companies doing that? Do they hate money?

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the car owner, to show its road worthy

Filters out all the shit boxes that would potentially fuck up other peoples cars/environment

What he said still stands though. $40 an hour for 37.5 hours a week and 50 weeks a year is 75k AUD. Plus the 10-15% he will be getting in super for a total of 82.5-86.25k AUD. This is at least 59k USD, and that's as someone who will have a below average wage in the industry.
That sounds about right as well. If you work as a tech in Australia you will be earning about $30-35 AUD/hour and if you get promoted to sysadmin (like my Father was recently, changed jobs to technician work due to losing his last one and was promoted) you end up with $45/hour, +13% super + car

>Then explain Uber, Lyft, Netflix etc.
Uber isn't publicly listed yet

As for lyft
>Lyft Investors Sue Over Slump, Claiming IPO Was Overhyped

Netflix makes money and is reinvesting money into the company so investors don't care

Either the person selling or the person buying, that's decided on a case by case basis. A RWC costs about $60 USD here, so it really doesn't matter.

The average is pulled up by those insane SV salaries, and to a lesser extent Seattle. It is not at all uncommon to make $100K+ as a senior developer in RTP, and I’m sure that’s the case in Austin as well.

I personally know some companies that have only management there and all the development in Russia.

Nigga if the dealer is offering you a rate less than inflation (and just a month ago I saw loans available for 0.9%/36 months), you take it.

Only material things that should matter to a man are guns, cars and electronics. In the US you can get them all faster, easier and also cheaper.

COPE WITH THAT YOU SUBHUMAN EUROS!

I would jump at this if these rates were offered in my country

Dealers in Australia have 0% ones here and there, usually can't haggle as much on the car but still room to move

Do they do credit checks or something or literally anything with an ID card can take one?

Yeah obviously you have to have excellent credit to get those prime rates.

They're pretty much on par. The difference is that the US has companies like Alphabet, Facebook and Amazon paying 800k or more to senior developers and project managers and that inflates the graph.

Yeah credit check of course + income

But it's no harder to get.

>Russia, Moscow ~$30k/year
>Russia, the rest ~$10k/year
I mean you can just work for some western company remotely and make times more than this.

their company makes 100M a day

Literally this. Never paying a bill at the doctor.

>5k aren't less than 5% of his savings

Ok how good is for an europoor to do uni in europe and then move to the us? Planning on leaving this tax shithole

>going to a rapidly deteriorating shithole of a country for a bit more money

Those are all companies that have been steadily generating losses yet are public, and even performing well, in the case of Netflix.
Lyft has been generating losses well before going public, and didn't start out badly. The overhype was unrelated to profits, because they were known to be nonexistent.
Uber is in the process of going public.

>Netflix makes money and is reinvesting money into the company so investors don't care
So profits aren't that important then? This is what the whole thing was about.

And my dad works at Nintendo.

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With those companies it's about future profits expectations

>Those are all companies that have been steadily generating losses yet are public

You listed 3 companies, 1 isn't public, 1 is making money and the other i mentioned the lawsuit. Lyft/uber are a bit different as they're getting injections for self driving tech, even toyota is putting hundreds of millions into them

what are you trying to spin

>company logged profit of $134 million on revenue of $4.2 billion in the final three months of last year.

Netflix still making money, they're just putting billions into programming.

If you're not poor it's better in America.

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Unrelated but where should I start from to win some quick money from programming? I'm a wagecuck (basically a mailman for a company) and I'd like to change careers.

I have saved some money to go to college next year so I have around a year to learn programming and shit before I quit my job to study. It's Software Engineering so it's related.

I already know basic C, some Bash and I've been using Linux for 11 years; but that's obviously not enough to make money as a programmer.

So where should I start?

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No wonder communists like Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders are becoming popular in the US. Big gaps between the rich and the poor means the middle class shrinks, social unrest rises and political extrememists become popular.

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>I already know basic C, some Bash
You won't get any quick money with this shit.For quick money you need to know something like JS and shitton of frameworks.