What does Jow Forums feel about electric motorcycles?

Looks like Vanmoof on steroids

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The only good kind of motorcycles. Noisy crotchrockets deserve to go straight to the crusher.

70 mpg isn't that great if a 20 years old Civic can get 50 and seat four.

Because electric motorcycles can be fast as fuck.
About the same distance as a gasser bike, 150 miles. The thing that sucks about electric bikes is that they'll never be as fast charging as filling up a bike with gas.

Harleys upcoming LiveWire will do "110 miles on urban roads"

Looks okay.

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>The thing that sucks about electric bikes is that they'll never be as fast charging as filling up a bike with gas
That's not much of a problem unless you are planning to drive more than 150 miles a day.

Most motorcycles are only used for commuting or weekend joyrides anyway, range barely matters and refueling/recharging doesn't matter at all.

Most are shit. Some new ones can get over 100 miles without a charge, but expect to pay ten times as much for the machine as a gas-fueled equivalent, and finding charging stations would still be an issue.

Sure. When that's a pressing issue then it will be a good time to switch to electric. It should also be noted that right now, our electric grid is still largely powered by fossil fuels (eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3).

I get 85 miles per gallon on my 155cc shitbike, and pay 100 bucks a year for near-full coverage insurance. It's glorious.

>but expect to pay ten times as much for the machine as a gas-fueled equivalent
Bullshit exaggerations, it's like double as much at most, and the prices will decrease as tech advances and demand and competition increase.

Electric motorbikes are not as fast as ICE yet, have worse range and can't be refueled anywhere near as quick. There's really no reason to choose electric and there won't be for a long time.
youtu.be/TjJ2IbzGTuo

I pay nothing for my bicycle and still get to work in the same amount of time as a motorized vehicle thanks to short distances and pedestrian shortcuts.

>There's really no reason to choose electric and there won't be for a long time.
Except when the annoyed rise up and ban loud as fuck shitcunt bikes.

No. The affordable ones you're talking about hit top speeds of like 45mph, and those still go for 2.5-3k. I don't even know if you can find an electric motorbike that will hit the same speeds as one with a 200cc engine even.

The Livewire for all intents and purposes doesn't exist. Its marketing bullshit which will never be mass produced or bought by anyone.

The Zero SR with additional power tank can get up to 223 miles city riding. Cruising on the highway at 70mph the peak range is only up to 112 miles.
However using the additional power tank to extend range limits your quick charge ability. This is the best electric bike on the market in terms of build quality, speed, power, and range. Everything else is a total fucking joke compared to this.
Some of Zero's cheaper models are decent little commuters, but their range is very, very limited. Some of them only get 19 miles peak highway range.
There is nothing else on the market even worth considering.

Whoa. These Zero bikes look far better specs wise than anything else I've seen.

>Chain drive

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They're basically the only serious company making electric motorcycles. Some years back there was another contender called the Brammo Empulse, but I don't think they put it into mass production, or they didn't have enough investor money to make it happen. Zero has gotten a few major rounds of funding, so they're basically the only guys on the block.
They've got everything going for them. The batteries are still holding back everything, and that probably won't change for a decade.

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It's the most efficient power delivery system for bikes, nigger.

Ev is a meme
Shit energy density and uses non renewable energy and materials so what's the point it actively is worse for the (environment) than ice vehicles
It's a dumb fad.
The only upside to ev is torque direct drive and simplicity/packaging.
Sadly battery tech is always ((improving)) but never enough to offset shit getting heavier

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What's the actual difference in drivetrain loss compared to shaft drive? Negligible I assume?

That study relied on a Swedish study that's been debunked as using the worst case scenario for EV resources and power sources, and the best case scenario for ICEs.

This nigga doesn't into electric drive

But the worst case scenario for ev is what it's like for almost every country that doesn't use 100% renewables
What the fuck do u think will happen to all those disposed batteries at wrecking yards and recyclers lol fucktarded ev faggots raping precious rare metals for your Gayass phone batteries that spontaneously combust and fry your gay ass

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>What the fuck do u think will happen to all those disposed batteries at wrecking yards and recyclers
They'll get recycled, as the word "recycler" already says. The materials are too valuable to just dispose of them.

You kinda need a form of transmission for electric bikes even iv the gear ratio is only 1:1 unless you want a retarded design like the one in the OP

>batteries are still holding back everything, and that probably won't change for a decade.
That was said more than a decade ago. There was an article I read about 15 years ago descibing all the battery technologies currently under development, saying soon we'll have this.
I hope you're right though, really, electric power is breathtaking, has the potential for an incredible motorcycle!

better batteries fucking never. We're hitting the physical limit of what lithium batteries can do and there is no viable alternative.

>there is no viable alternative.
Aluminium batteries.

I'm not certain but I think that's what they use in Formula-e cars now.

>motorcycles
suck ass. impractical and dangerous. buy a car.

You fags will pry 2-smokers from my cold dead hands
It's like 20% user

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And e-bikes can get equivalent of 500+ mpg.

True that.

A far more reliable Dutch study by TNO shows EV's are better for the environment than any internal combustion cars even if all electricity comes from coal plants.

I could dig it up if someone asks me POLITELY. (sorry, I won't waste time on people who post insults).

It's still cooler than a trike (or any bike with ape hangers for that matter).

>The thing that sucks about electric bikes is that they'll never be as fast charging as filling up a bike with gas.

Not for a long time, no.

But it is at least technically possible to charge them wireless while driving.
Wireless fast charging while parked is already becoming a thing for taxi's. (so they can charge a few minutes while waiting for passengers).
And Siemens is researching wireless charging of moving vehicles.

I doubt you'll ever have that on back-roads though, so for people who ride motorcycles for fun this will probably never become an option.

Some researchers at Chalmers U in Sweden just released a paper saying they created a lithium-sulfur battery that performed well in lab tests.
No idea if it will pan out, but there isa lot of research going into new battery tech. Whoever brings a game changing battery to market first will make a killing.

phys.org/news/2019-04-graphene-sponge-lithium-sulphur-batteries.html

The problem with lithium sulphur batteries so far has been their instability, and consequent low cycle life. Current versions degenerate quickly and have a limited life span with an impractically low number of cycles. But in testing their new prototype, the Chalmers researchers demonstrated an 85 percent capacity retention after 350 cycles.

The new design avoids the two main problems with degradation of lithium sulphur batteries—one, that the sulphur dissolves into the electrolyte and is lost, and two, a 'shuttling effect,' whereby sulphur molecules migrate from the cathode to the anode. In this design, these undesirable issues are drastically reduced.

The article, "A free-standing reduced graphene oxide aerogel as supporting electrode in a fluorine-free Li2S8 catholyte Li-S battery," is published in the Journal of Power Sources.

>riding a girthy rod
hot
no vibration tho

>It just werks
based

You can't mount the electric motor on the wheel, imagine the unsprung weight.

It wont be relevant for 10+ years.

The only real world metric is what's currently happening in mass market. That's Tesla's battery. Neary 20% advantage in cost reduction over competitors like LG/Samsung/CATL(chinese battery giant)

>20% advantage in cost reduction
because of scale, but i doubt they are much better.

Here's the energy density. Tesla's battery come out much.

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Also, that was from 3+ years ago. Now their Wh/kg is up to ~250.

Bruh, Tesla doesn't have their own batteries. They're Panasonic 18650s inside of a case. There is nothing special about that. The only advantage they have is given the enormous size of the battery pack in a Tesla car they manage to fit more cells in the housing. Its a lead balloon scenario.
All of this is old and consumer grade tech. Only solid state batteries will actually increase energy density.

So what are you saying? Tesla's battery cost is fake and their energy density is fake because they're old? Or that these innovation in driving down battery cost and increasing energy density doesn't count because you don't like it?

LMAO

A fine idea, but market's too thin so the prices aren't competitive.

And fueling bikes is already dirt-cheap so most of your arguments for overpaying so much are nullified especially considering there's not much crossover between Green culture and bike culture.

>being this stupid
>even bothering to post a reply when you're totally clueless about this topic
Tesla cars have battery packs that are nothing but a case filled with off the shelf Panasoic 18650 cells. The exact same kind you can buy yourself off Amazon. Tesla cars have no unique battery chemistry, they have nothing that gives them a real advantage in energy density of the cells themselves.
The advantage they have for the total battery pack is because of its size. Tesla cars have a larger battery pack than all their current competitors. Exactly as I said it is a lead balloon scenario. Put your two brain cells together and think about what that means, you dumb groid.

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Ethanol bikes when?

Low IQ post. The older S/X uses custom 18650. The newer Model 3 uses 21700.

>I had no fucking idea what I was talking about, but now I'm going to grasp at straws
Nice. Keep up the shitposting, little groid babby.

You can't brag to your yuppie friends about your 250cc bike,

Adhominens won't change the reality of Tesla's battery being better than competitors.

>there's not much crossover between Green culture and bike culture.
very true but the appeal would be the instant high torque. same thing that drew in tesla fans.

I am holding out hope for a better chemistry but most of it seems to be vaporware at the moment. That being said, Tesla has recently acquired Maxwell who have a proven lithium battery with 2x the energy density of regular lithium and has the potential for 3x. 2x the current density would be a game changer desu and it's in the pipeline, 3x would be an incredible step forward.

>implying vir/g/ins ever leave the house

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There's a strong chance the new Maxwell tech will be available in the Roadster.

>very true but the appeal would be the instant high torque. same thing that drew in tesla fans.
This isn't something that most riders are concerned with, most litre bikes with loop over and power wheelie anywhere anyway, they don't need instant high torque.

There are a LOT of riders out there who don't ride fuck huge litre bikes that would love the torque of an electric motor.

Great, they'll just have to ride fuck huge electric bikes or have a tiny range. There are plenty of bikes out there that can't put down the power they make, and I bet they're all cheaper and better quality than any electric bike.
Torque isn't a good argument for electric bikes.

High End Lipo batteries are ~.9 MegaJoules / KG (nine tenths). Gasoline burning with atmospheric O2 is 46 MJ/KG. So it's already stupid when your bike weighs 200kg, 150 of it battery, and can only go 120 km before you have to charge.

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Additionally, besides the energy and mining costs of Li-Ion, unless you're charging from renewables, you're adding 6 times the amount of pollution per mile. Think about it: you can put a gallon of gas in a car and get 30 miles. Most power plants are ~33% efficient at converting fuel to energy. So now you're down to 10 miles for the same gallon of gas. Now send it over an electric grid that's, literally, 50% efficient - so you're at 5 miles for the same gallon of gas a car can go 30 on.

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OPEC shill detected.

What's the point of a motorcycle that doesn't make loud broom broom noises?

This, get your basedshit out of my face

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no you don't, you friggin moron

Depends on the bike. There are e-bikes that can do 200-300 miles easy. Those sort of bikes are usually non-sport e-motorcycles and are light. The main use of these e-bikes is city/work commuting.

the wind on your face I guess

>Motorcycles (and scooters) can be insanely fuel efficient. For instance, engines between 150 and 250cc tend to get anywhere between 70 and 95 miles per gallon

and then they get banned or require you run some 4cycle CARB compliant pos in 5-10 years time when you're shitty polluting 2 cycle piece of shit becomes illegal to run in any civilized nation.

I've been riding for nearly a decade, yes making brap noises is fun but I rode my mates Zero dirtbike the other day and the silence was pure bliss. It also means you are much more aware of your surroundings which is a pretty significant safety factor.

Pretty sure a little 125 2 stroke is putting out a HELL of a lot less emissions than a modern "clean" soccer mom 4wd with a 3L V6.

>We're hitting the physical limit of what lithium batteries can do

no we aren't. they haven't even revisted lithium metal batteries suspended in polymers yet.

>There are e-bikes that can do 200-300 miles easy.
No. No there aren't. A Zero SR with a range extending second battery tank can *maybe* hit 200 miles of range on purely city riding, and only if you're very ginger on the throttle. They even tell you at the dealerships that if you try to have fun you'll cut the range in half. Their range at highway speeds are even worse.

you'd be wrong.

CO2 isn't the only destructive emissive gas and any small ass engine is going to be putting off much worse gasses than CO2

>It also means you are much more aware of your surroundings which is a pretty significant safety factor.

>riding a bike
>wanting safety
You are a lala prancing homo boy molesting fruit

It's not about wanting safety dickhead, it's about reducing my chance of being a red paste from some stupid boomer.

Zero SR with range extender is advertised as 223 miles in city. Not a "maybe 200" The standard model is supposed to hit 200 miles in city.

The peak efficiency speed for electric motor is ~30mph so in a city riding, that's more than enough.

It's a bit of a shame that Tesla doesn't produce electric bikes, if you could get the Maxwell tech into it with double the energy density for an advertised 446 miles that would be pretty huge.

The harder you accelerate the faster you drain the battery, kiddo. That is a huge fucking maybe, as it you would never attain that range in real life. There are no bikes on the market that hit 200-300 miles "easy," There is one, that if you baby the throttle, with an additional $2000+ accessory battery, you can maybe hit 200 miles of range if you never hit 50mph or faster.
Don't talk out of your ass. Range is a massive problem and that isn't changing any time soon.

Read again.

Recycling batteries is currently a meme no one does it seriously as it costs much more to recycle the batteries than to extract new lithium and other minerals.

filthy casual, if you don't ride distance then why the fuck have a bike?

You read again, you dumb faggot. The manufacturer range estimates are hypothetical best case scenarios which have no bearing on reality whatsoever.
It assumes perfect fucking warm weather, a rider who isn't engaging in any spirited riding, its bullshit. You have no idea what you're talking about.

This thread is just further proof that EV niggers are ideological zealots blindly regurgitating bullshit to fit a narrative.

Read again dumb nigger.

Exactly that's shits ending up in landfills one way or another

I like to fill my bike up after about 250km, that's when it just hits the reserve and I have about 100km of range left if I baby it. Mind you this bike is pig fat and not very efficient.
I ride pretty hard and I spend about 30% of my time above 80km/h on my daily commutes. Once or twice a month I go on a long (~800km) ride out to the twisties or to visit family or go camping.
Electric bikes are no where near replacing this, because a lot of people who buy naked bikes want to be able to do everything, much like I do
They don't want to be limited by range. People who buy super sports and litre bikes just want to go fast, which electrics bikes don't really do yet. People who buy cruisers want to cruise and look cool. I feel like the electric segment is more suited to scooters, but little 2 strokes do a better job.

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Yes you do, moron.

Even if they are smaller than engines, electric motors still are bulky and heavy, you can't just attach that sucker to the back wheel and call it a day. You can get away with no transmission on a car because there's plenty of space to put the motors right next to the drive wheels

i rike it arot