GuixSD 1.0.0 has been released 2 days ago

Do you use it? Can you show an example of how non-free repos look like and where I can get them?

>What do you think, Jow Forums?
It's just a reskinned Debian.
>"b-b-b-but muh revolutionary package manag"
nah. thats a hipsters excuse

nobody use it

Are you saying I don't exist?

A
FUCKING
VAGINA

>c*nny
ftfy

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Once it gets more packages and a non-autistic way to install nonfree firmware when you need it, I'm jumping ship from Gentoo immediately.

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>I want to try because:
>>no systemd
I'm not familiar with this implementation.
Would love to see Nix with Runit.
>>lisp config kinda seems more appropriate than a language with new syntax
I would agree if it used some common scripting language instead.
List is not that common today.
Arguably, something specifically made for purpose might be better.
>>>with all the same problems
>Please elaborate.
Old packages (TexLive) incompatible packages (nvidia-docker), difference from almost every other distro and specific configuration.

>trying to install
>reading the manual
>first try to set the keyboard layout
>it doesn't work the way I expected
>some time later I managed to set it
>set up wifi
>it's softblocked
>rfkill unblock wifi
>Missing Free Firmware
I guess it's time to libreboot my T60 (and put in some Atheros card) but fuck, I'm tired today. Maybe I'll ask in /tpg/ if it's easy enough.

>Arguably, something specifically made for purpose might be better.
Tell me how implementing everything with its own new unique special language helps with consistency and simplicity

>I would agree if it used some common scripting language instead.
But then, system configuration in Python, Javascript or Lua sounds disgusting. They are far from elegant simplicity of list processing. Actually there is another point about language choice: why is it dynamically typed? I suppose it's acceptable for a configuration because it's supposed to terminate quickly anyway, so the difference between compiling it to check for errors and running it isn't really significant. But it could be nice to have a typechecker run in background and point your errors as you write it. Sure it's possible to make similar tools without static typing but it's easier with it.

Well, you can tailor your language specifically to the task. So nix has comfy record syntax (because that's what a config consists of mostly) and I also read that it's lazily evaluated to make it work (when creating system configuration you are given the configuration you are creating so you can check for certain things in it and extend the configuration accordingly). This lazy evaluation thing especially makes me curious because Guile sure isn't lazy.

>Tell me how implementing everything
Not everything.
>with its own new unique special language
Is it 100% unique? I wouldn't believe that.
> helps with consistency
Of what exactly?
> and simplicity
It can be very simple and intuitive.
Example: fish shell. You have autists that are only used to bash and sperg out how it's different and new users that actually see a sane syntax.

>Well, you can tailor your language specifically to the task.
Why do you need to make an entirely new language for that though? Adding the complexity of making a parser, interpreter, designing the semantics and developing new tooling will obviously take away from developing the program itself. Lisp is already extremely tailorable to very autistically specific tasks due to macros and homoiconicity.
>Guile sure isn't lazy.
You can lazily evaluate arguments using macros, which you can think of as functions which do not evaluate their arguments and return Lisp code as their output. Or you can treat some code as data and pass it unevaluated to a regular function, which then might later evaluate it depending on some conditions.

You're missing the point with using Guile. It's not just to set the configuration, it's to blend the configuration and the actual program. You are actually modifying the program itself, you can hack it and toy with it to set it to your needs.

>difference from almost every other distro and specific configuration.
Merely being different isn't a bad thing. In fact, with how shitty everything else is in comparison, it's actually a good thing.

I declare Suika the mascot of Guix.

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>I would agree if it used some common scripting language instead.
Making some new shitlang with its new fancy snowflake syntax for fucking everything is one of the things that is holding computing back.
We've already had a perfectly fine, tried and proven general-purpose language for decades that does the job fery well for configuration purposes too. Why nit just use it.
Some nights I fapped to a hypothetical Portage configured in Scheme, not kidding.

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I'm a retard and couldn't get it installed a couple months ago, before the graphical installer. Are there any good tuts online about doing this? I'd prefer to not use the graphical installer anyway. The official one is too vague for my dumb mind.

>Wireless card works in install media, has drivers
>not even detected in the installed system
What the fuck?
The reference manual has a section for the install. Follow instructions and copy and modify any configuration you like.
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/guix.html#System-Installation
It's pretty good. The graphical install is very wonky, wouldn't recommend it.

those are GNU/Ovaries

Do they require a motherboard?

>I would agree if it used some common scripting language instead.
Lisp is better than "scripting languages" like Ruby and Python.
Instead of storing its configs as JSON or XML, one can have Lisp code as Lisp data to encode the config.
defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html

>Arguably, something specifically made for purpose might be better.
Lisp processes lists ("lisp" = "list processor") as data, and Lisp code itself is written in lists. This means that you can process Lisp programs with other Lisp programs and transform them into new Lisp programs.
What does a compiler do? It takes programs and rewrites them. So, if you write a Lisp program to generate new Lisp programs from other Lisp programs and pipe the output to the compiler, you've extended the compiler.
This is what Lisp macros do. They're user-written compile-time transformations on your Lisp code which expand it to Lisp primitives before compilation.
This is why Lisp is perfect for Guix. Guix is made out of package-management DSLs embedded in Lisp. By writing it in Guile, they have their own purpose-built DSL with full access to the Guile ecosystem.

>functions which do not evaluate their arguments and return Lisp code as their output
You're thinking of fexprs, which are not well-behaved and do not exist in modern Lisps.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fexpr
Macros are compile-time code expansions. One list structure is expanded to another.
>you can treat some code as data and pass it unevaluated to a regular function, which then might later evaluate it depending on some conditions.
This is what Smalltalk blocks do.

Based GNU

GuixSD isn't made by the FSF. The FSF is the Free Software Foundation. Look it up.

I didn't like it, it was too annoying to add packages, and almost impossible to install stuff without using packages.
Also the libre only packages rule sucks

>You're thinking of fexprs
Yeah, I know about them, but I was making an analogy for someone who doesn't necessarily know Lisp.

>Lisp lisp lisp
So it's "Emacs: the OS"?

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You need to let nonfree software go.

no
true freedom is using whatever you enjoy best - 'libre' or 'non-libre'

>reading on Libreboot
>ATI cards aren't supported
Fuck this shit.

- GuixSD doesn't prohibit you to use nonfree software
- if you use nonfree software, you give up control to someone else, that isn't freedom, that's slavery, the opposite

>Emacs: the OS
That would be a Lisp Machine OS.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine
Guix offers significantly more in the way of modern amenities (security, reproducibility, Unix compliance), but doesn't make full use of the sheer dynamism possible with Lisp (both because it's built on Unix and because that would forgo security).
Modern OSes are way behind Lisp Machines and Smalltalk. GNU Emacs is a remnant of the former, gimped to run on the text-based Unices of 1984.
Guix System + EXWM will still be comfy once I Libreboot my Thinkpad.

Oh fuck off. Lisp Machines and Smalltalk died for a reason.

Because they were slow as shit. This is probably still true for Smalltalk but modern Lisp implementations are quite fast. SBCL can keep pace with Java while using a fraction of the memory.

>libre only packages rule
There is no such rule

Yes, yes they did.
The reasons were social, not technical, however.
wiki.c2.com/?WhyIsSmalltalkDead
dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBetter.html
If they had rode the wave of free software and waited to fit on expanding commodity hardware (which they did, within under a decade after their deaths), they would be alive today.

Just the same, APL had its own full OSes (backed by IBM, no less) and is a better version of NumPy/R/Pandas, but lost because it chose the wrong side too many times while getting nixed by sales-hungry managers and is now relegated (as K) to niche HFT roles.

Prolog has its own story of reinventing computing and being pulled down by one unsuccessful project: vanemden.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/who-killed-prolog/
This is in spite of Prolog-style logic programming arguably being perfect for the Internet (series of articles): natecull.org/wordpress/2017/06/26/dataspace-0/

Computer history is littered with designs which should have won but didn't. Survival as a sign of quality means that Windows, C++, and JavaScript are ideal.

The truth is, survival and quality are orthogonal. Forgot the "free market" economics bullshit you were fed in school. What about competition to sell larger volumes of product - either to ignorant consumers (B2C) or ignorant managers (B2B) - incentivizes innovation? It's expensive and might be ignored. It's cheaper to rip off someone else's hard work (see: Steve Jobs and Xerox PARC).
Innovation should be done as it has always been done; in research labs (corporate or government-run, doesn't matter) run by and for engineers and scientists with PhDs from the best schools, access to the latest papers, and funds to build whatever they want, no strings attached. That's how you get great systems like Lisp Machines and Smalltalk.

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Not him, but I use it.

But here's some examples:
* A separate distro called PantherX using Guix as it's package manager and including nonfree software in its repos: pantherx.org/
* A simple git repository is all you need to act as a repo, here is an example of someone hosting a package for the Linux kernel including its proprietary blobs: github.com/mbakke/guix-nonfree

The difference is that there are no handholding IDEs for SBCL that make 90 IQ pajeets capable of churning out OO nightmare enterprise kludgeware. We won't see an end to "worse is better" until we kill or deport the pajeets already here and nuke India.

>click first link
>Goldberg's greed
Literally every time.
>reee the free market doesn't work
Kill yourself, commie shit.

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Great idea, I second this motion

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Nice

>probably hates Jobs and iTrash and JS and Java
>still supports free market, even though it incentivizes spending on aesthetics over quality and selling to the lowest common denominator
>blames Jews and Indians on anecdotal evidence
This is why you'll keep getting your ass kicked by the world.
Intelligence is found universally among populations. If you strip them of everything and give them the choice between starvation and selling stupid shit, they'll sell stupid shit. If you give them basic stability and free time, they'll think and invent like other humans.
The problem isn't that there are Indians to write OO nightmare enterprise kludgeware. The problem is that we have a market for OO nightmare enterprise kludgeware among pointy-haired bosses. So long as you support a corporate system where those who rise to the top are empty suits with MBAs instead of PhDs in math and chemical engineering and physics, some starving urchin will be there to build SAP-style crapware.

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>intelligence is found universally among populations
You could not possibly be more wrong.

>hurr the poos exist because of the Java
t. India IDF
You have the causality backwards. Webshit and Java and Golang only exist at ALL because the cheap programmers were already hired and they were too incompetent to write in proper languages. Google in particular openly admits this about Go. Java was designed from day one for programmers less capable than the language designers... so pajeets.

i have an atheros card and it wasnt supported by any of the FSF approved distros

What problems?

>No free 802.11ac cards yet
>Little to no chance at free 802.11ax cards either now that that's becoming a thing
Might as well buy one of those little chinky routers running openwrt and use it as a wireless bridge.

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>boot to usb
>bring up network
>partition disk
>make and mount filesystems
>write os config using simple straightforward normal lisp declarations
>run a single command that calls said os config
>boot to new os
The `manual' install is about the slickest shit I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing.

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>he doesn't have one of these

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>You could not possibly be more wrong.
There have been geniuses from all parts of the world. India alone has had many geniuses.
You don't need to be an Indian nationalist to see that.
There are smart and dumb people everywhere.
pic in related

>Webshit and Java and Golang only exist at ALL because the cheap programmers were already hired and they were too incompetent to write in proper languages
So then what were they hired for? We don't need that many highly-educated Fortran writers for number crunching, which is what computers are meant to be used for. Alan Kay and co. developed a new operating system (browser and all, IIRC) in 20K lines of code. Clearly, most of this bloatware is unnecessary in strictly technical terms. The need is social. You're onto something about Go and Java being designed for poor programmers, however.
The target programmer for the designers of Go and Java isn't the average Go or Java developer. It's the very worst one. Why? The pointy-haired bosses want to be able to swap out anyone for anyone else. The larger the pool, the better. This is also why they push bootcamps, MOOCs, and the "STEM shortage" meme.
I'm sure a lot of the Java- and Go-writing "pajeets" who you deride have CS degrees and could do work far above the caliber of "backend for a startup selling underpants on the Internet". They do it because they need a job. Nuking the patch of land where their ancestors happen to come from would change nothing.

Just replace the Linux-Libre kernel with normal Linux with all the firmware.
(if you need help just ask)

You might need another way to connect to the internet just for the installation part since the liveCD will be running libre, but once you boot into the installed system your normal wireless should start working.

But I already have a libre wireless card and an install without firmware. I don't want proprietary software, I want libre wireless cards with standards above n. Also a USE flag-like system would be nice too. Maybe that's a more realistic request.

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Install Gentoo.

ACCEPT_LICENSE="-* @FREE"

compile deblobbed kernel.

there, you have your special communist snowflake RMS OS with no meanie-head licenses. the best part? you can remove all that shit, put the blobs back in when something doesn't work, and accept non-FSF licenses when you realize what a mistake you made. And then you're left with Gentoo, the best thing ever.

I would rather a source distro that pulled a current kernel and emacs only.

That's cool, and I also have one of these to support libre.
But I don't think there's anything wrong with someone just using the normal Linux kernel for now.

I'm all in favor of the defaults and standards being libre and then letting people intentionally decide to move away from it when needed.
For one thing, it serves as a constant reminder, and also our goal should never be to stop people from doing stuff they want to do, even if that involves nonfree stuffs.

Also yeah, a USE-flag system would be mind blowing.
Honestly I think it's going to happen one way or another. I think at this stage though, it would be a bit overwhelming since they're still playing catch up on getting the basic core packages everyone expects. But once the package base is large enough and they can focus more on fine-tuning I see USE-flag-like functionality becoming inevitable.
There's already functions for rewriting package fields. So the next natural evolution of that is automation for rewriting build flags (you can still rewrite them now it's just a bit more work, and you have to know what flags something has in advance)

You have absolutely no clue what Guix is. Don't embarrass yourself.

correct. because I ignore anything that uses "GNU" more than 50 times to describe itself.

Alright, thanks for stopping by.

>hates GNU
>uses GNU
why are people like this?

In my experience it's roughly 50% due to misconceptions about what GNU is and stands for, and probably about 40% due to memes.

what about the other 10%?

faggotry probably

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saved

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Looks cool. With StumpWM and Emacs you could have something close to a modern LisP machine.

The kernel and system utilities are still C. But we are getting there.

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Also StumpWM seems to work really badly. The prompts get stuck on the screen and won't disappear.

A lot of the GuixSD contributors have been talking about working on integrating the as (probably an optional) kernel for guixsd.
Isn't the Hurd more lisp-like or something? Sometimes when I hear about the hurd I hear lisp being mentioned

hurd was an incomplete micro kernel

replacing linux with hurd would be pointless if you want to improve

not if it's open source

It's really not the best it could be. Have you tried defining actually complex interactive commands? The second lambda list is completely useless if you want useful prompts.
Maybe I'll steal next-browser's command thing and see how it works.
Still written in CL though.

But if it's "lispy" then wouldn't that still be a better starting point than from scratch? Assuming that it is, idk

>reading the Guix Manual in spanish
>all translations of user are rendered in feminine form, contrary to standard usage
Of course this doesn't take away from the technical merits of Guix, but I can't really take a project seriously when they pull this kind of "activism"

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Yeah that's definitely the one side of some GNU developers that annoys me too. It happens on occasion in their English documentations as well, they throw in a "she" even when it's a common phrase to say it with a "he".
But whatever. I don't need to like everything they do.

Translating things doesn't require the same technical and analytical skills as programming, so it'd make sense that a language-oriented job would attract crazies. Don't blame the devs, blame the translators. They're probably all from Spain as well.

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That's why I'm willing to just ignore it. I don't doubt for a second that there are those in the community who dislike that kind of activism too.
But if someone makes a contribution that has stuff like that in it you just smile and say thank you I guess.

Well, the devs are in it too, seeing as they accept internships and such through Outreachy (which gives preference to "underprivileged" groups).

I don't mind it much actually, since they are literally doing it for free and are inconsequential to my user experience overall, but it's one of the things that makes you sigh every time you notice it.

Anyone know where I can search for a package quickly? The 'Packages' section on the website doesn't have a search bar for some reason.

Wew
Miss me with dat shit