Why would I switch to Linux?

>libreoffice
I use Linux at work but libre office is a literal piece of useless garbage.
The fact like it or not, is that MS Office is the standard, and if Libre Office breaks MS documents then its worthless since clients and coworkers with Windows are inevitable, I even had problems at school with that piece of shit.
Universal compatibility is everything, Google Docs is the way to go for work.

1. have sex
2.
>you're fucking retarded, it's almost as if you want someone to control you
ok don't ever go out of the house then if you don't want to be controlled. oh wait i see you already do that.

>do you even libreoffice you nigger
top 5 shittiest software i've ever used before. also LOL YOU WROTE the nWORD XDDDD

why is every linux user pretentious as fuck

They are not, its just the pretentious ones are the ones that make noise.

why every macfag is entitled to get information served on a plate?

Honestly, if it is schoolwork you are doing, make it a PDF file. This goes for whatever you are making in. Even in Word I have seen shit look different on the college PCs. PDF guarantees your gender studies professor will get the same version you do and can be made in any meme OS or freedumb software.

>Honestly, if it is schoolwork you are doing, make it a PDF file.
No, because professors explicitly ask for docx

do you go to some shitty community college or are your professors just luddites?
PDF is the standard document format for pretty much any finalized document

This has never happened.

no ms word, powerpoint, excel
it's called a monopoly

>professors explicitly ask for docx
what

I do that when I have to make a lab report by myself because even my own printer fucks up sometimes.
I had problems in an instance because we were a team of 3 working in the graduation project and one of them used Libre Office while the other one used MS Office, it was a fucking mess every time you opened a document to revise it, we could have saved ourselves a lot of trouble just using Google Docs.
>your gender studies professor
I studied informatics, but nice projection.

This, but unironically.
>inb4 hurr durr elitist loonix user
I use both Linux and macOS.

Who the fuck actually uses PowerPoint lmao

you know. just about every Fortune 500 company ever

I do when I go to conferences to present. But to be honest, Google docs would have been perfectly viable as a replacement, I'm just lazy.

Executives, not people who work with tech.

>Why would I switch to Linux?
You shouldn't. Stay with mac os where you belong.

MacOS isn't free software and even if you don't care about that, it also doesn't allow you to alter anything but the wallpaper. With GNU+Linux you can modify anything you want as much as you want. You can also choose your hardware pretty freely to get the best hardware for you, ergonomic, durable, looks and best price. Whatever you value the most. With Apple you can't decide anything, your opinions don't matter at all.

People generally can't find anything to complain about GNU+Linux other than third party software support. If for some reason you can't survive on supported software you can try if the Windows version works through WINE, or in Office's case you can even use the browser version. The future is obviously Linux and Valve has already started focusing Steam for Linux with all their resources.

See I'm not an executive, I'm an engineer. But yeah, to be honest, Google present or whatever its called could have cut it.

I've used LaTeX beamer in the past, but that's not for me.

>where you belong
man, you are so cool and so smart, i bet you have a really high IQ :)

> With GNU+Linux you can modify anything you want as much as you want
yes, but what if i told you that i don't see the need to modify anything, if i get shit done on my current setup?

> You can also choose your hardware pretty freely to get the best hardware for you, ergonomic, durable, looks and best price
valid point, but buying a new mac every 5-7 years is no big deal to me.

> try if the Windows version works through WINE
ok you're not serious are you

Stay with macOS.
You sound like you don't even want to be helped.
It's not our job to save you.

>MacOS isn't free software and even if you don't care about that, it also doesn't allow you to alter anything but the wallpaper.
That's a blatant lie. Darwin-core, as in the XNU kernel + system binaries + services/daemons, are free as in freedom, which allows you to quite trivially implement drivers or do kernel hacking the same way you would do on Linux. The barrier is a bit higher for newbies, since macOS uses signed kexts (I think maybe similar to FreeBSD?), but yeah, you have complete access to the source through the developer.apple.com url.

Also, if you download Quartz for macOS, you can pretty much run any application that uses X.org. I do this for Inkscape and Dia and a couple of other vector applications I rely on. Gimp even has a native macOS variant, which I also use. Valve porting to Linux also means that games ***usually*** work on macOS too, since OpenGL applications just werks[tm].

t. Linux user and macOS user.

>ok don't ever go out of the house then if you don't want to be controlled. oh wait i see you already do that.
How the fuck do you compare a operating system installed all your desired packages + bloat & spyware to extreme schizophrenia?

If you have to ask, you shouldn't.

>man, you are so cool and so smart, i bet you have a really high IQ :)
I thought you were the guy wanting to be spoon fed about a topic that is a google search away.

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There's no reason to swap your kernel to Linux, plus your userspace would be incompatible with it.
If you are talking about GNU (with Linux, FreeBSD kernel, HURD or whatever you want), this is worth a read: gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html

>GNU/kFreeBSD
Didn't these projects die out like ten years ago?

bahahahaha ms damage control is this delusional, docx is a nigger of a document format and every institution ever asks for properly formatted pdfs, which are mostly made in latex

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>valid point, but buying a new mac every 5-7 years is no big deal to me.
That doesn't solve anything I listed. You still cannot choose anything there. It's what Apple sells and you either like it or not. With other computers you can build them yourself and choose everything according to what's best. I don't even mean they are necessarily cheaper, they are just better.
>OpenGL
The future is Vulkan and Steam already uses DXVK. How's the support there? Can you choose your desktop environment and window manager? Can you do an actual dual boot where both operating systems are in equal position? Can you change the init system? What about the filesystem that your OS uses to run itself, not other partitions? Can you shut the lid without having the laptop go to sleep if you want? I hope so.

>How's the support there?
Not sure, but macOS gets proper driver support so as long as the library implementation of those aren't written by literal monkeys that can't into portable code, then there should be little difference. macOS is POSIX after all.

>Can you choose your desktop environment and window manager?
I feel like you're grasping for straws here. No, unless you run OpenDarwin (not macOS, but uses Darwin core).

>Can you do an actual dual boot where both operating systems are in equal position?
Yes, look up bootcamp.

> Can you change the init system? What about the filesystem that your OS uses to run itself, not other partitions?
This is clearly a bad attempt at moving the goalpost. The honest answer is, yes, you can, if you implement them. But there aren't any alternative implementations, because no one has bothered to.

>Can you shut the lid without having the laptop go to sleep if you want?
Yes, not that wakeup isn't instant anyway.

>professors just luddites?
Yes. and M$ has deals with the college, so that may have something to do with it.
It has
I'm not bullshitting with you here. They ask for assignments to be submitted in docx and not once have they ever even brought up latex. I've had some courses allow PDFs, but most require Word format.
This is for cybersecurity degree btw

>and M$ has deals with the college,
Huge red flag. Probably a shitty college.
t. informatics graduate

>I feel like you're grasping for straws here.
You are free to feel what you want but I didn't actually ask what you feel. Just state the facts if you can do something or not. So MacOS cannot really do any modifications unless someone someday makes it happen. That means the end user does not have options in reality. You have to like it, there's no other option given.

Also I'm pretty sure that you can only close the lid if you have an external display connected, unless they have changed it. If you just want to close the lid for a second and not have it go to sleep there's no power option for that. Let's say maybe if you are transferring files via WLAN and need to swap rooms and the laptop is easier to carry closed you don't want it to sleep. That's a use case I just made up where it would be needed. Or maybe you're doing something on the background and don't want people to see your screen so you close the lid while you don't need it. Having an instant wakeup doesn't matter the slightest here, it's a lack of choice anyway unless it can be changed.

>That means the end user does not have options in reality. You have to like it, there's no other option given.
But that's
1) fundamentally different than being non-free.
2) basically the exact same as for FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, OpenSolaris etc... Show me all the different init system implementations for those, or are you going to insist that these aren't free as in freedom either.

>Also I'm pretty sure that you can only close the lid if you have an external display connected,
You being pretty sure is wrong. There's an option on how long to wait before sleeping when the lid is closed in the settings.

>If you just want to close the lid for a second and not have it go to sleep there's no power option for that.
There literally is.

I'll post a screenshot when I log on to my mac at home in about two hours time.

M$ has deals with most universities, are you saying MIT is a shitty college?

>M$ has deals with most universities
Yes, but not deals that force professors to use specific software in their teaching... That sounds either like an obvious lie, or that your professor is being commissioned by Microsoft (in which case I would seriously question his and the unis academic integrity).

Well, free as in freedom and the ability to modify were two different points right from the start.
>...and even if you don't care about that...
GNU+Linux has both of those. You are also free to choose the hardware for it (with some limitations that are getting smaller every day).

This is still moving the goalpost, as my response was directly aimed at the claim that macOS is non-free. It's a free as in free speech OS with some proprietary components (exclusively in firmware and in userland). Running a proprietary Nvidia driver on your GNU/Linux system doesn't make GNU/Linux non-free.

Secondly, having a gazillion different options are not even a strong case, most of the criticism against the adoption of GNU/Linux is the lack of unification when it comes to distros, package managers, desktop environments etc. The key principle here is that you have the four freedoms on macOS:

0) you _can_ run macOS for whatever purpose however you like, there's only a technical limitation, not a legal one.

1) you can study how macOS works and modify it to your needs, the source code is available online for anyone with an Apple ID (free to sign up for) or on the actual system. I implemented a compiler and a linker for macOS by studying how the program image loader works, for example.

2) You are free to redistribute your changes to the free components

3) You are allowed to improve it.

Have you considered that the reason there isn't a gorillean different options is because the demand for this is low? Alternatively, the existing implementations are good enough?

>1) you can study how macOS works and modify it to your needs
>2) You are free to redistribute your changes to the free components
Nice! Looking forward to seeing your macOS distribution! Don't worry about the lawyer's letters

>who has time and nerves for that
It only takes up time during the installation, and even then normalfag friendly distros will do it automatically for you.
>package dependency issues
The package manager handles this

>no ms word, PowerPoint, excel
yeah this is a valid complaint, especially if you need to use some advanced features. Word and PowerPoint aren't so unique, but libreoffice calc doesn't even begin to compare with excel. Not sure about vectorisation software, but I'm inclined to believe you.
Just want to point out, though, that this same argument can be applied to macOS. Macs have very poor support for games, and many other software that works only on windows. It all comes down to your individual needs from your computer.

>practically no bloatware
Just because macOS doesn't come with tons of programs with icons you can launch, doesn't mean it isn't bloated. There is probably tons of code running under the hood for things you don't need. What's more, is that due to the nature of proprietary software you can never actually be sure what your computer is doing.

It absolutely _cannot_ be a goalpost move if that was the first post and you started replying to it. The goalpost cannot move in advance. Maybe you should stop trying to fit in by listing all the cool meme words you have heard here, like goalposts and grasping straws. Just speak normally.
>The key principle here is that you have the four freedoms on macOS
This wasn't always the case and I'm still skeptical since this is Apple we're talking about, the enemy of choice. If modifying and redistributing are possible, where are the MacOS fork distros? Does this freedom include everything or just the kernel? Are there any proprietary parts in the full installation? Where are you even reading this from?
>Have you considered that the reason there isn't a gorillean different options is because the demand for this is low? Alternatively, the existing implementations are good enough?
Systemd is pretty decent too and people still value the ability to get rid of it. In fact that's the whole reason for some distros to exist right now. If MacOS has any market share there should be people who want more, if it's possible. Where are these people?

Linux is a kernel. You should choose an operating system that uses Linux like Android or GNU.

if you wanted to – it has no entry barrier

it isnt our job to convince you of anything, to give you tech support, or spoonfeed you information.
we are neets, and we do whatever the fuck we want.

kys, and fuck off.

>i use macOS
Back to the shitting street, rakesh

>Nice! Looking forward to seeing your macOS distribution! Don't worry about the lawyer's letters
OpenDarwin
PureDarwin

Your move, shill.

>It absolutely _cannot_ be a goalpost move if that was the first post and you started replying to it
Blablah

>If modifying and redistributing are possible, where are the MacOS fork distros?
I've literally already listed one, PureDarwin are another.

>Does this freedom include everything or just the kernel?
Kernel and Darwin core, as well as many services and applications (such as LLVM/Clang etc).

>Are there any proprietary parts in the full installation?
Of macOS, yes. Of OpenDarwin, no.

>Systemd is pretty decent too and people still value the ability to get rid of it.
Most don't, and the difference is that OpenRC and other SysV init systems have existed for ages. They aren't implementing alternatives to systemd, they are reverting back to archaic options.

>If MacOS has any market share there should be people who want more, if it's possible.
Non sequitur.

Here is the macOS kernel source code.

github.com/apple/darwin-xnu
And a mirror: github.com/opensource-apple/xnu

Can we please end this meme that macOS is 100% proprietary, the entire kernel along with a bunch of drivers are free as in freedom.

It's called 'walled garden'.

Not sure how walled it is, since you can implement your own kernel extension (kext) and fuck around in kernel space as you like. To me, that sounds exactly like FreeBSD.

>OpenDarwin
Is it this one? From 2006?
>applematters.com/article/opendarwin-dies-a-lonely-death/
>PureDarwin
>Specifically, it means that we do not use any components from macOS.
That sounds nice for PureDarwin project but doesn't make MacOS sound any better (or free). If your computer has MacOS your options for altering things still seem extremely limited. You're only opening it up if you change it to another system. OP was asking people to talk him out of MacOS.

Options != Freedom
macOS isn't any different than any of the Unices and Unix-likes in this regard. It's fucking hilarious how Linux being fragmented as fuck is used as an example of strength or as a weakness, completely dependent on the goal of the argument.

Also
>Linux is the kernel so it is the most important part of an OS
>Android is a Linux OS because it uses the Linux kernel, the most important part of an OS
>BUT macOS IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OS THAN OPENDARWIN BECAUSE IT HAS A BUNCH OF SHINY AND POLISHED PROPRIETARY PROGRAMS LIKE GARAGEBAND AND SAFARI CHECKMATE iPAJEEETS

This is how disingenuous you sound

I can choose which package manager I want on macOS, MacPorts, Fink, homebrew... When was the last time you CHANGED your distros default package manager?

Wine works on macOS user.

>BECAUSE IT HAS A BUNCH OF SHINY AND POLISHED PROPRIETARY PROGRAMS LIKE GARAGEBAND AND SAFARI
Who are you quoting? Would the OS be suddenly different if you changed the browser? Those programs aren't system level. They are easily replaceable, takes two seconds. Unless you aren't actually allowed to remove them, I don't know the deal here.
Snap and Flatpak can be easily installed in GNU+Linux.

>Would the OS be suddenly different if you changed the browser?
Obviously not, which is why saying that PureDarwin and macOS are two different OSes is just retarded (they both use Darwin-core).

Snap is a broken piece of shit, an the fact that snap packages can't handle dependencies properly and in addition can be duplicate with APT just makes it worthless as of now. Maybe it will mature in 5 years. Anyway, it's an Ubuntu thing (unless you're a sadomasochist).

Flatpak I don't know enough about.

Because you either have to run it on those horrible literal toasters apple manufacture, or have even more trouble than linux by trying to force it to run into decent hardware.

>why would you cheap out on a machine you're using daily

that is what using a mac is. you just buy it and take it out of the box and it works great until it breaks, in which case corporate buys another one because the entire purpose of the racket is to consolidate the entire price of their computers into a single accounting collumn so the eggheads think that macs are cost effective

they actually aren't, but if you're an accountant just looking at the columns, there is only one column. they must be so good they dont even need to repair them

they are the cheapest computers around, alright

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I still don't think I'm convinced that MacOS respects the four freedoms.
>and in addition can be duplicate with APT
That's the point though. That's how Apple software works as well. Everything is inside a little .app which includes all the libraries that program needs, so you will have the same things over and over again. Snap and Flatpak also give you everything in one package no matter what your system has through APT, but I heard (from 4channel) that Flatpak can share libraries between other Flatpak packages which makes the end result less bloated. You're going to have things twice but not more than twice.

>I still don't think I'm convinced that MacOS respects the four freedoms.
Either justify that reason by, among other things, defining what you mean by macOS, or we can stop this discussion right now, because it's basically "yes it is" "no it isn't" at this point. I would argue that macOS is no less free than Android with Google-ware installed or a GNU/Linux distribution with proprietary software installed, the free as in freedom components of macOS are the core of the OS (kernel, core utils, services, libraries, etc) and can you can build a working distribution relying solely on the free components and without requiring any of the proprietary components, which are, almost exclusively, fancy GUI applications that are easily replaced by free as in freedom alternatives + the display server and desktop environment itself (which again, I would argue is non critical). There is some non-free firmware too, which is part of the computer itself (and not the OS per say).

If would say that it is up to you and how you define what macOS is. If you're saying that macOS is the whole experience (including the proprietary components), then it would logically follow that neither Android or a GNU/Linux installation with proprietary software installed, would be free as in freedom either.

Bump

>Either justify that reason by, among other things, defining what you mean by macOS,
Well that's easy, just return back to OP. OP claims to use MacOS and asks why should he switch to Linux. What MacOS means here is what OP is running, which is most likely an Apple device that came with MacOS. If it's incorrect to say this OP's system is respecting the four freedoms then I don't know why it was even mentioned in the first place. It's a theoretical plus side which cannot be seen in practice. Also I don't think anyone even mentioned Android, people are talking about GNU+Linux here. Android isn't even a desktop system, it's meant for mobile devices. This sounds like having to make up irrelevant things to get at least some arguments.

I think if the system is able to boot up and run programs without proprietary software then there's no question if that system is free. If you then install a non-free program you're still running it on free system because it was a functional system even before installing that program. This is my definition and Stallman might not approve it. Even if all your browsers and calculators would be non-free I would still consider it a free system if it can boot and run programs without non-free software. I'm also only talking about the system that goes to the SSD/HDD, not BIOS/UEFI/Intel ME that happen anyway. If the drivers are non-free but they come with the Linux kernel then they get a pass for me as well, I'm mostly in it for the convenience and freedom to replace parts.

>If it's incorrect to say this OP's system is respecting the four freedoms
Let me ask it a different way, how would it violate the four freedoms?

>It's a theoretical plus side which cannot be seen in practice.
As already mentioned ad nauseum, the exact same holds true for any UNIX and UNIX-like that isn't Linux. The wide adoption of Linux and its massive support is an exception in the free software community, not the rule. The fact that alternative components do not yet exist is not the same as them not being replaceable. After all, it would most likely be simpler to implement for XNU as it is more true to a microkernel design (although not entirely) than Linux for example.

>Android isn't even a desktop system, it's meant for mobile devices.
The point is the kind of OS, the point is whether or not it can be considered free as in freedom.

>if the system is able to boot up and run programs without proprietary software then there's no question if that system is free.
Since Darwin-derivates OpenDarwin and PureDarwin exists, I'd say that it's pretty much settled then. The only difference between these and macOS is that they've replaced the display server and the proprietary userspace programs with GDM and the Gnome desktop environment.

>Even if all your browsers and calculators would be non-free I would still consider it a free system if it can boot and run programs without non-free software.
Then macOS would easily qualify as free by this definition.

bump

>>why change when it works

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>>PDF file

>Portable Document File file

You PIN number in at the ATM machine too, dickhead?

>professors explicitly ask for docx

Vim > LaTex > pandoc > docx

Also, change your professor.

I’ve literally never had any need to try to move a folder into a folder containing a folder of the same name and have it merge the two folders. Sounds like some autisticly contrived use case. I really don’t know why anyone would expect the two folders to merge anyway. If I wanted to move the contents of one folder into another folder I would just do exactly that, move the contents.

You hit the big fact big fella!

nice english, pajeet.

Fuck off fag. Go do some basic research

well it seems like you need to do some basic research into the English language. Do they offer courses in New Dehli?

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I'm not that guy but I guess a retard like you wouldn't get that.
Stop supporting nigger "standards". Doc(x) is so shitty that MS breaks it between versions of their own office suites.
Doubt unless you go to some no name university or taking a meme degree filled with useless professors.

MS shills on damage control. Go back to Jow Forumsmicrosoft

well maybe you should become a tripfag so I can distinguish you :)

You should use a trip so everyone else here can filter you

we are talking about you here, you seemed to be surprised you weren't easily distinguished :3

cope harder iToddler

Botnet with botnet seasoning

t. mactoddler

>I use macOs. It's fast, reliable and comes with everything I need.

If macOS works for you, then that's fine.

>Why would I switch to Linux?

Only switch if you feel the need to. Obviously you're fine with what you have, so there's probably not much benefit for you in switching to something else at the current moment in time.

Epic

Some schools feed the doc files into a service that looks for plagiarism.

>need to install basically everything you need yourself.
What do you mean by that? Yeah, you need to install programs. Do you have everything you'll ever need on MacOS by default? Do you think every Linuxdistro works like Arch or Gentoo where you need to configure pretty much the entire system? I seriously don't understand the issue at hand.

Reminder that Office 365 is a thing and you can access it through your browser.

>Work on document in LibreOffice
>Open it in Google Docs
>Check/fix formatting
>Save it to Google Docs

OS X is fine, the hardware it is tied to sucks.

>Since Darwin-derivates OpenDarwin and PureDarwin exists
I was under the impression that OpenDarwin stopped existing in 2006. I missed the part where OP mentioned he uses PureDarwin and not MacOS. Display server is part of the system while a web browser is not. If OP's system can run a web browser which is free it shouldn't break the chain yet. If the browser is non-free it should be the first breaking point since a browser is a user program and not a part of the system in any way. This is what I mean and there would be no point bringing the goalpost movement argument into it.

This should stay between MacOS and GNU+Linux, no reason to bring other systems into it. Unless OP is considering PureDarwin or Android but forgot to mention it. I think he also forgot to mention that the hardware must stay the same so the benefits with changing hardware can be forgotten automatically. PureDarwin might be a cool project where no alterations are forbidden, but with MacOS you can be sure what the user is running. No one changes anything in the system.