Graduating soon. Is it possible to find a decent development job in Vancouver...

Graduating soon. Is it possible to find a decent development job in Vancouver, or is everything done by chinks and pajeets? How's the tech sector in general in BC?

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Other urls found in this thread:

torontoforall.ca/trans-youth-of-colour/
www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/89-001-x/89-001-x2007001-eng.pdf
nber.org/papers/w12327.pdf
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working tech in canada is horrible. there's so much skilled immigration that wages are shockingly low, and immigration is driving all sorts of living costs up at the same time as it drives wages down.

when you're interviewing, businesses are at the same time looking at people with 5+ years of experience from abroad who are already happy to be earning $20,000 a year. they don't give a shit about training people or hiring new grads because why would they, they have access to the entire world's talent pool and all sorts of desperate people from other countries trying to get in.

I worked in tech in toronto and on my floor of 200+ people I was maybe one of 10 or so actual canadians, not counting senior level employees or HR which still has a lot of canadian born.

nobody hires fewer junior positions than canada. nobody trains less than canada. your wages are 1/3rd to 1/4th tech wages in usa and with higher living costs. it's so fucking bad holy shit.

That is terrifying.

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continuing, almost all of my graduating class is either in the USA or europe or elsewhere abroad. overwhelmingly I see the smart people leaving, and at the same time more and more immigrants coming in every year. canada's per capita immigration is the highest in the world by a large amount and it keeps increasing. there's a new tech specific visa on the horizon that will make the situation even worse.

canadian companies are risk averse and hate to hire unproven talent. startups want to go to the usa when they take off. they also never become anywhere near as profitable as american companies. your wages will also stagnate, and at a senior level you will earn even less than people who left for america.

on top of all of this, canada has far fewer options in where you live to work in tech as well as fewer companies to work for. I work in data science and this is especially true for me, with most data science jobs being in banks which also pay far less than in america.

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take a look at these charts of the main tech cities in canada.
first you might think, well they're growing quite fast and people are moving from canada to be in these cities.

but if you look at where the population is coming from you see that it's entirely from immigration, again it's the highest immigration anywhere in the world per capita, and that canadian born are leaving. not only are they leaving, it's rapidly accelerating how fast they're leaving.

I would more than anything want to stay in canada and I like it here. I grew up here and all I really want is more or less the life my parents had when I was growing up. wages are so low here and living costs so high that it's clear that's not going to happen unless I accept giving things up or move to the states.

the house price to wage ratio in toronto is now worse than new york city. vancouver is far worse. once you look at things like taxes, housing costs, living costs, and the fact that tech employers in america cover healthcare anyways, you make so much less in canada that it doesn't make any sense at all unless you're willing to sacrifice an enormous amount. even the insane silicon valley bubble isn't as bad as canada once you factor in the higher wages.

personally I'm looking to move to colorado or washington state. I'd prefer to stay in canada but I can't make it work over here and it's quite obvious how much better it is to be working in tech in america.

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Are you fluent in Punjabi?

the other big contributing factor is the fact that america right now has an absolutely booming economy especially in tech and that immigration is now being controlled in america. tech wages are going up and businesses are desperate for talent. at the same time canada's economy is stagnating, and even contracting in some areas. canada's gdp like australia is inflated by housing markets which is inflated by immigration.

again, all of this is while canada is increasing skilled immigration numbers every single year to further flood the worker pool. canada has an oversupply of graduates and people are very underemployed. america on the otherhand has an oversupply of unskilled labor and a dramatic undersupply of skilled labor.

wait until you talk to some american recruiters and see how highly you are desired, assuming you have a decent resume. canadian recruiters don't give a fuck about you and you're in a long line of desperate people trying to get hired. in america companies want talent bad, and they will aggressively go after you while in canada you will be chasing after them.

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I'm a French student in Montreal (inb4 only French people live in the plateau anymore)

The thing that sucks is that we get tax incentives for staying in Canada after we graduate, and we pay the same as Quebec students (or I did, AFAIK they just changed the law though so now French students pay the same as Canadian students, aka double the Quebec rate)
And yet, the tax incentive doesn't even match the amount of money you could be making in the US. I love Canada, I'd be happy to stay there just for the safety net and good tuition prices for my kids (someday), but frankly with the kind of bank that you can make in the US, it's unbeatable. I plan on working in the US for a good couple years before coming back to the EU and living off my earnings, but still benefiting from state stuff like health care and good tuition. Fucking kills me but the US just wins by default with the kind of money they're offering, and given that those salaries might crash in two-three decades I don't want to be cucked afterwards.

canadians are cucked and asleep about immigration

That's similar to my plan as well. Work in the USA for as long as things are juicy, and head back home if things quiet down or when I'm ready to retire or wind down my career. Although I often hear people just end up staying in the USA because you earn so much.

trips for truth

This.
Montreal especially. Not only are they letting in thousands, but they're also even more blue pilled on kids. So many people here don't want kids. And some of the Francophones here rail on about muh culture and being threatened by the Anglos, but don't even give a shit about immigrants barely assimilating.

>the house price to wage ratio in toronto is now worse than new york city
it's always funny to hear americans complain about how hard it is to make it when it's easier in america than almost anywhere in the world

>wait until you talk to some american recruiters and see how highly you are desired, assuming you have a decent resume. canadian recruiters don't give a fuck about you and you're in a long line of desperate people trying to get hired.
This rings true for me too. I was getting depressed trying to get a job in Canada at how little interest I was getting and how hard it was to get to interview until I started applying in the states and then suddenly I felt wanted.

depressing thread as a canadian student

At Waterloo you're considered a loser if you stay in Canada.

>Step 1: Register for ten credit cards with 1'000$ sign up cash bonus each
>Step 2: Make downpayment on a house, rent out for more than the loan costs every month
>Step 3: Buy another house no money down with the first house as collateral. Rent out for more than the loan costs every month.
>Rinse and repeat as many fucking times as you want
Land of the free... *sobbing in europoor*

SV is filled with waterloo grads and they trashtalk canada lol

>I would more than anything want to stay in canada and I like it here. I grew up here and all I really want is more or less the life my parents had when I was growing up.

I know how you feel. My family has lived in Toronto for six generations and are proudly old stock Canadian. I can walk around my mom's old neighborhood and see churches my family helped build and other landmarks my ancestors had a hand in, but it's just not feasible to stay.

>I worked in tech in toronto and on my floor of 200+ people I was maybe one of 10 or so actual canadians
I've literally never heard of this in my life
t. software engineer in Toronto

Shouldn't your family be loaded from the housing bubble then? How are you not wealthy?

>I'm looking to move to Colorado
fuck off we're full

Old stock =/= rich. We were always comfortable middle class, but you can't have that in Toronto anymore. The worst thing is that Canadians have any conception of a national identity beyond Tim Horton's and hockey. We are the most easily placated people on the planet. As soon as a Paki puts on a Leaf's jersey he's "one of duh boys, eh buddy?" All this happened because we let it happen. Vancouver's even worse. It's eaither hipsters who still think Canada is too white or white trash retards and tradesmen who've been totally deracinated who don't know what Canada is and have no incentive to try and preserve it.. And on top of that there's the constant stream of entitled immigrants who are openly disrespectful of Canada's real heritage. It's suffocating.

Working at a company called IT Glue right now. I want to kill myself because this place is shit. At least our retard CEO is no longer with us.

>IT Glue
the name should have been a giveaway, holy shit lmoa

Most of what you're describing literally only goes on in your head

Where do you live? Because I see this everyday.

Downtown Toronto

and here's why none of what's described in this thread is going to change

You must live in a different Toronto.

torontoforall.ca/trans-youth-of-colour/

Okay, so you're still just spreading baseless FUD with a single SJW site to set the tone? Yeah, I grew up with a ton of immigrants but unless you were an autistic retard growing up you would've gotten to know that they're just regular people growing up with the same media and influences as your pasty white ass.

Someone should make a meme image that says "people of color; what you imagine" and a picture of a rainbow, next the text "what you really get" and a picture of a brownish smear of something possibly shit.

>As soon as a Paki puts on a Leaf's jersey he's "one of duh boys, eh buddy?"
Yes. I know all about you people.

Again, the pakis I know were born here and lived here their entire lives. Stop being upset because you're white.

And they still have no connection to the country and will only vote in their group interests.

Enjoy living a sad and pathetic life surrounded by other sad and pathetic Jow Forumsacks.

Enjoy watching your county turn into a third world strip mall.

don't worry he will

Again pushing this pathetic narrative, have you even been to Toronto? Or are you one of those inbred boys from Alberta who's never actually seen a brown person?

What do you mean?

We see a lot of browns buddy. I'm from Calgary.

I lived in Toronto for the first 18 years of my life and have lived in Vancouver for the last 12. Immigrants don't integrate. They form their little ethnic enclaves and vote for their own interest.
>But European immigrants had their own neighborhoods
They also had the same religion and broad European culture as the Anglo-Canadian majority and were more than willing to integrate into society.

Okay, so completely invalid retard opinion. Gotcha!

again, just so everybody else knows why canada can't stop any of the things mentioned at the start of this thread, people like this guy are why. if you want a good life you need to leave for america.

I already have a good software development job here, tyvm.

*earning a fraction of what americans earn

And brown people have nothing to do with it

statscan has exhaustively shown that immigration lowers wages, and the effect is quite considerable. mass skilled immigration has directly caused wage stagnation.

www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/89-001-x/89-001-x2007001-eng.pdf

immigration is completely responsible for living costs in major canadian cities. house prices would be plummeting if there weren't so many immigrants moving in every year as native born canadians are moving away more and more every year.

Since we're on the subject of how much Canada sucks, are there any CS programs worth attending in Montreal? Either french or english. Engineering or BAC? UdM, Concordia, or McGill?

So where do you find positions to apply? None of them ever advertise sponsorships.

nber.org/papers/w12327.pdf

>Canada, actual wage change %:
>High School Dropouts: -19.3%.
>High School Graduates: -16.2%.
>College Graduates: -2.2%.
>Post-Graduate Degree: -7.0%.
>All workers: -6.1%.

that was back in 2006, things have gotten much worse since then and wages are even more stagnant

In 2018 the minimum wage in Ontario went from $11.25 - $14/hr. I had so much money for a little bit before the prices caught up it was crazy.

you use a TN visa and pray you eventually are worth enough to get real sponsorship

>as your pasty white ass
>Stop being upset because you're white
Y I K E S

Sorry but how do you think 350,000 a year of mostly skilled immigrants doesn't undercut wages? Can you at least explain to me how it's not obvious to you?

The tech sector is significantly worse than in USA, you'll be earning half of what you could get there. But it's not 100% awful.
There's Amazon and Microsoft in Vancouver, if you're decent you should be able to get in. I'm not sure about Microsoft, but a fresh grad at Amazon in Vancouver or Toronto gets at least C$120k.

Wealthsimple also pays nearly American wages. Capital One is also pretty good.

>C$120k
>in a place that's about as expensive as the bay area
>with living costs out the ass
>with more taxes and a leaf dollar
>good

There's also way more competition because there's so few good paying tech jobs and so many Canadian STEM grads.

Yeah, finance companies pay decently, but that's only if you're willing to sell your soul.
I said you'll be earning half of an American salary at similar company (but not a startup, where the pay is shit and includes worthless lottery tickets). But it's a bit less expensive, and you don't have to suffer through the bay area commute. And there's like 4 places on Earth that pay that much, anyway (bay area, Seattle, New York and Zurich). It's not good, but it's still not that bad.

Maybe my job isn't shit? Couldn't tell ya but I can guarantee you there isn't some sizeable amount of immigrants working at my company. The vast majority are local grads and we've got a fuckton of local grads.

Everywhere in America pays more than Canada though, if you live in a place like Austin or wherever you'll double your pay and half your living costs and taxes.

if home prices weren't so insane in those cities it wouldn't be so bad

I have straight up been rejected for jobs because the place has run by pajeets. They took one look at my white name and said I wouldn't "be a good cultural fit." vancouver sucks

Isn't that illegal?

not if you're white

It's illegal but you would need to be blatant about it to actually get in trouble. You can dismiss people for vague reasons and not have any problem. This is definitely something that happens.

not being a good cultural fit sounds pretty racist to me

My aunt and uncle bought a house in the Annex, downtown Toronto, for $300,000 in the early 00s. It's now worth $2-3 million. If the prices had continued their 80s-90s trend and only doubled from now since the early 00s things would be completely fine. The problem is immigration is driving demand so much that prices just keep rising. The studio I started renting in 2010 for $1000 a month now goes for $2400 with no changes.

Great thread. Canada is trash tier now, leave if you can. Waterloo grad here (loser tier). I work in Ottawa (was gentrified out of Toronto, and am well on my way to not being able to afford shit here either)
>Rent has increased by ~$400 on average in the three years I've been there
>Vacancy rates are the lowest they've ever been
>Housing costs are the highest they've ever been
>People camp out for days in line to put a downpayment on shit houses in the middle of nowhere
>My workplace is mostly Indian and Chinese immigrants and even though I work in the tech sector (there's a tech park near Ottawa with lots of companies), wages aren't competitive wrt US at all
>Instead of hiring Canadians, my company transfers US employees who are unable to stay because of H1B rejection or other Visa issues to Canada under TFWs. Its trivial to stay here vs the US. They have kids immediately, etc.

I grew up in Toronto and spent most of my life there. It was one of the best places in the world to be in the 90's and early 2000's. I grew up in a diverse neighbourhood but everyone spoke english and things were good. Home ownership wasn't a pipe dream, CoL was decent, and it felt like the socialized resources you had were actually accessible (you could get a family doctor or not wait half a year for an MRI). I get really mad when I think about how all that is gone because you assume things improve in the future, not get worse.

Any how, get the fuck out of here my man. Its just going to get worse and worse. Politicians and boomers with multiple properties love foreign money. They don't care about the side effects.

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>Any how, get the fuck out of here my man. Its just going to get worse and worse. Politicians and boomers with multiple properties love foreign money. They don't care about the side effects.
Also I hear its going to get harder for Canadians to move to the US permanently. TNs will still probably be okay for awhile, but in general if you can leave, you should leave.

>I grew up in Toronto and spent most of my life there. It was one of the best places in the world to be in the 90's and early 2000's. I grew up in a diverse neighbourhood but everyone spoke english and things were good. Home ownership wasn't a pipe dream, CoL was decent, and it felt like the socialized resources you had were actually accessible (you could get a family doctor or not wait half a year for an MRI). I get really mad when I think about how all that is gone because you assume things improve in the future, not get worse.
Me too. I can hardly believe how much it's changed since the early 2000's. I feel like the place I grew up in is like a fantasy world. It doesn't even feel like it really ever existed. I browse Toronto real estate almost nightly and it's soul crushing.

>I feel like the place I grew up in is like a fantasy world.
Probably nostalgia

I missed the end of the affordable housing window by like 5 years. I graduated in 2011 and at the time things weren't nearly as bad as now but I couldn't get enough money together for a downpayment. I needed to save for a few years. But then property just kept going up and my savings weren't enough because after a few years the prices had gotten so much higher. Now they're even higher still and I doubt I'll ever afford anything unless I leave.

Racsim against whites doesn't exist you silly goose

I don't mean culturally or in a vague ways about things being better back then, I mean in terms of being able to afford living here. Which in hard numbers is a place that's now gone, and it wasn't even that long ago. I'm not old at all but the Canada from my childhood is gone.

As a montrealer I feel pretty bad for you guys. I deeply identify with the Québécois cause (not independentist, but just don't really give a shit about the rest of Canada), but still shitty to read this thread.

What US city should I try to move to? I want somewhere safe and with nice nature nearby. I was thinking Seattle but then I visited this year and saw all the homeless which scared me.

Stay out of our country, you fucking locust. You all bring the same shitty progressive politics here that ruined your last nation and then will be surprised when it (further) ruins this one.

seattle is an absolute shithole dude

Washington DC is real pretty. (Designed by a French lad so of course it would be)

>safe
>right next to baltimore
trying to kill the canacuck I see. wise.

seattle the city sucks but the surrounding area is nice, bellevue is great and the suburbs are comfy

bellevue looks super depressing in terms of architecture, but i've been to a couple studios there and they all seem pretty happy there

it's really nice 2bh. great suburban life with lots of nature nearby. high wages. and compared to canada insanely low prices. but all the americans complain it's expensive even though it's not.

this. I'm making $23 ($17 USD) an hour in Canada, right out of uni. I'm getting the fuck out of here as soon as I have enough experience that I can easily slide into a job in the US. I should be making $40 USD at the minimum as a dev, I love Canada but the job prospects are just shitty compared to America

If you're in Canada just work at Linus Media Group.

eh, quite a few cities in europe + israel will pay a dev with some years of experience $120k canadian bucks

>with some years of experience
With some years of experience you'll get >170k in Canada, though.

europe is on par with canada in terms of pay, most areas are quite a bit below but some are higher like the netherlands, norway, switzerland
those areas have higher cost of living and taxes though. canada comes out a fair bit ahead overall.
the benefit of europe is in better work life balance and more interesting travel. I'd take a good job in switzerland in a second though.