What kind of bullshit is this, GNOME developers now want distros to stop making custom themes

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I understand their reasoning but they can go choke on a dick, I need to use a custom theme because the contrast on the default one is now so bad I have issues noticing icons and buttons

they don't care about you, an individual. you would do it understanding that its your fault if shit breaks.
they care about distributions, an organization, shipping broken apps.

>it's free software, but you have to use it the way we say

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I know but they've been pushing for the removal of theming in general for some time now, this is just another part of it.

And if their default theme wasn't so horrible distros wouldn't have the need to change it

yeah. what is the GPL if not exactly that?

Do whatever you want but the code has to be open

>devs doing design
this is why open source won't amount to anything.

>gnome's theming support is broken and hacky
>amateur icon sets usually look awful
>ergo, custom fonts, themes, icons should be removed
>t. 10 random guys

This. If they didn't want people theming their programs, they should've made them look good in the first place.
And why would they be against theming anyway? Shouldn't that be made a selling point, considering that M$ and Apple have been castrating customization for decades now? (remember how much shit you could do to WinXP compared to Win10? Pepperridge Farm remembers). And on the Mac side, all you get basically is light theme and dark theme. That's all, folks! Meanwhile, GTK and Qt have insane theming and customization potential. See gnome-look.org/ for examples. It's sad to see that devs aren't embracing the ricer meme and accepting the existence of custom icon sets and window borders.

Based license

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I haven't used Gnome in years.

b-but user! They designed it with HUMAN interface guidelines! for HUMANS! reeee
developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/

/s

>we believe GTK should stop forcing a single stylesheet on all apps by default
Oh god, stop.

What a wimpy and pathetic wording.
>The other's aren't getting bullied! You're only bullying us! :'(

They're right though, except for the icon themeing part. Icons are the only thing not breaking any readability. On the contrary - in Linux most default icons are complete trash. The paper-bag-on-head-method of hiding that with icon themes is almost mandatory to me.

But in the end this is gnome we're talking about.

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It's rampant in all areas of the Linux community

I have genuinly never heard of the devs and the software they created.
So I do not care.

.intro {
background-color: #de00dd;
color: #24c40b;
}

body {
font-family: 'Comic Sans MS';
color: #172c32;
background-color: #322424;
}

.notice {
background-color: #b9c926;
color: #cfcf50;
}

.code-block {
background-color: red;
color: #ff5900;
}

.join {
color: #b300ff5e;
background-color: #00ffb7;
}

inb4 oy gevalt

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What about me?

based

>makes program open source
>stop modifying it!!1!1

that's fine by me, just put a wallpaper. Who cares?
You are not a manchild ricer right, user?

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Please read the letter all the way to the end. This is aimed at distributions breaking apps by default, not tinkerers playing with their own setup.Please read the letter all the way to the ePlease read the letter all the waPlease read the letter all the way to the end. This is aimed at distributions breaking apps by default, not tinkerers playing with their own setup.Please read the letter all the way to the end. This is aimed at distributions breaking apps by default, not tinkerers playing with their own setup.y to the end. This is aimed at distributions breaking apps by default, not tinkerers playing with their own setup.nd. This is aimed at distributions breaking apps by default, not tinkerers playing with their own setup.

are you ok? did u have a stroke, frien?

remember that faggot who wrote xscreensaver and threw a huge temper tantrum (with a time bomb in the source code) because Debian wasn't updating to the latest version of it like he wanted everyone to?

He's been right though. Guy runs strip clubs. XXXScreensaver, get it? Can't be that wrong what he said. Most people probably didn't get it. I had seemingly similar types of conversations with debian maintainers as well. They're goddamn donkeys over there. Pigheaded and stubborn, that's how I perceive debian maintainers.

No surprise people clash with those debian know-it-alls.

>We take pride in our craft
Why? Gnome looks awful.

is this the power of Jow Forums's reading comprehension?

>stopthemingmy.app/
Those arguments are legit.

Thanks doc!

well fuck them, kde is better anyway

>This is aimed at distributions breaking apps by default, not tinkerers playing with their own setup.
So, why exactly are people even mad about this?

Linux ͟i͟s a kernel, you mongoloid.

People can't read. People want to sound dramatic, so they get more (you)s. People hate GNOME (for whatever reason).

>haven't heard of a single app these people developed
Thinking about it, is there any important, not easily replaced (usually with superior alternatives) GTK app that isn't GIMP?

This is completely disgusting and against the spirit of the GPL. We are free to share our modifications to work, I just cannot understand how it could be bad that people can theme their systems, or that distributions can ship themes.
Seriously, fuck off. All of them.

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I remember some KDE fag tried that back in the KDE4 days, complaining that if people changed a little tiny detail (supported entirely by distro patches since KDE wouldn't accept the patch) it made him sad cause he worked so on hard on the graphic design and people were using it wrong lmao.

It was about the original plasma window theme and adding a little divider line to tell where the title bar was (and maybe even allowing it to be a different color but thats omg too extreme) if anyone else remembers.

Anyway they obviously learned their lesson and backed the fuck off, after screaming and arguing like faggots for a year or so.

nice

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>I just cannot understand how it could be bad that distributions can ship themes.
Truly a mystery.

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Thanks, doc.

Changing the theme seems like a much more sensible action than asking people to stop shipping themes altogether.
In your example, why not submit a report to the theme developer instead?

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>Changing the theme seems like a much more sensible action than asking people to stop shipping themes altogether.
Have you even bothered to read what they wrote on this page? They don't give a fuck about users installing whatever themes they want or distos having themes in their repos. They're asking distros to not use some ebin theme by default if their shitty theme breaks random apps.

Maybe they should quit shipping garbage non-compliant apps that can be broken by themes lmao.

Because I know that the majority of Jow Forums is afraid of reading anything longer than a tweet, here's the gist of it.
>This is aimed at distributions breaking apps by default, not tinkerers playing with their own setup.
>Though we could disable theming directly in our apps, we do not want to resort to this.
>The problem we’re facing is the expectation that apps can be arbitrarily restyled without manual work, which is and has always been an illusion.
>We’re trying to do our part in raising awareness with this letter.
>If you like to tinker with your own system, that’s fine with us.
>However, if you change things like stylesheets and icons, you should be aware that you’re in unsupported territory.
>On a platform level, we believe GTK should stop forcing a single stylesheet on all apps by default.
>Instead of apps having to opt out of this by hardcoding a stylesheet, they should use the platform stylesheet unless they opt in to something else.
>We realize this is a complicated issue, but assuming every app works with every stylesheet is a bad default.
>If you are a distribution who changes the system stylesheet and icons, please reconsider this decision.
>Changing third-party apps without any QA is reckless, and would be unacceptable on any other platform.
>We understand the need for distributions to stand out.
>We are tired of having to do extra work for setups we never intended to support, just to have that used against us when people tell us the breakage from theming is “not that bad”.
>Note: Even though some of us are Foundation members or work on GNOME, these are our personal views as individuals, and not those of the GNOME Project, the GNOME Foundation, or our employers.

I did. Have YOU bothered to read the post you were replying to? It specifically says "shipping" themes - the distros can ship whatever the fuck they want. That's the point of the GPL (even if this isn't a license 'issue').

>They're asking distros to not use some ebin theme by default if their shitty theme breaks random apps
No, they're asking distros to not use some ebin theme by default at all.

>GNOME developers
It's not GNOME, it's a bunch of literally who's. You can see the list of them at the bottom of that page in the OP.

I don't use any of their applications so that's not a problem.

Back in the early 2000s theming was all the rage. Themes like Liquid, Keramik, ModSys and Plastik were popular in KDE. Konqueror even supported IE’s custom scrollbar CSS. I used to spend hours on KDELook.

Yes, they know that distros can ship whatever the fuck they want. But they're trying to explain them why it isn't a good idea with actual reasoning and examples. What exactly are you struggling to understand?

>Your actions are hurting us app developers a great deal, and are damaging to the entire ecosystem beyond your distribution.
BULLSHIT.
This is free software, isn't it? In the libre ideology people who contribute to the software do not get paid for it. Therefore, there is no way they can be hurt by anything anyone else does to their software. On the contrary, if they really support the libre ways they should WANT people to modify their software.

Considering OP didn't even understand the sentence "An open letter from independent app developers to the wider GNOME community" in the image he posted, and misinterpreted that to mean that the open letter was from GNOME developers and not "independent app developers" he probably struggles to understand anything at all.

>But they're trying to explain them why it isn't a good idea
Their reasoning is completely off and will ultimately lead to the end-users losing their ability to theme their system. They very clearly argue against programs using the system-defined GTK theme. How will any user benefit from this?
> with actual reasoning and examples.
Show me distros that shipped with broken themes. If there's any, do you have an example where they didn't fix the issue?

>theming has worked just fine for ages
>GNOME/GTK fucks it up somehow
>please stop theming our apps :^) muh brand identity
lmao no

Probably debian lol

Naahh, I kid the debian fucktards, it's all just banter.

Their reasoning is completely off
How is their reasoning off? This is the latest Ubuntu LTS youtube.com/watch?v=jiB7EVitYlw And their new theme isn't better, there's already a bunch of random hacks and bullshit everywhere. This picture is not just a random mock-up, it's from Pop OS. Have you even tried to launch a non-elementary GTK app on Elementary OS? It's a fucking mess.

>against the spirit of the GPL
>We are free
>the GPL
most jej

Ho ho ho ha ha, ho ho ho he ha. 'Ello, my old chum. I’m gnot an gnelf. I’m gnot a goblin. I’m a gnome. And you’ve been, GNOMED!!!

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The spirit of the GPL would be that you forked the app, changed the theme and then installed your own forked version on your system.

>199X
>I'll learn GUI programming when the cross platform toolkits don't suck
>2019...
Why is it eternally bad?

Because they're just a bunch of dipshits who are too lazy to deal with consequences of their design decisions. They even mention that the option to hardcode the theme is there, but they have too much onions in their blood to make the move and tell people to deal with it, so they're doing passive aggressive bitching and moaning instead, hoping someone else who actually has the balls to make a move will catch the flak for them.

GTK isn't a cross-platform toolkit. It's the GNOME Toolkit pretending to be cross-platform but failing at it. Use Qt.

>They even mention that the option to hardcode the theme is there, but they have too much onions in their blood to make the move and tell people to deal with it
They don't want to hardcode, because they have literally no problem with random users changing their themes. They only target distros and their default themes.
Why is it so hard for Jow Forums to read? Why are you complaining when they actually care about your usercase?

>>Why is it eternally bad?
People who are good programmers care little about UX and generally not at all about graphic design. People who care about graphic design care about fashion, UX be damned, and are shitty programmers. People who are good at UX generally offend the sensibilities of both programmers and designers.

They are doing this because they don't want distros to drop support for their shitty apps (so they end up having to be installed via a shit ppa) or make poorly mantained forks of it that will give the main project an even worse appearance as most users will not look any further and just use whatever comes with the distro.
Hardcoding it would be just as bad or worse for their brand.

>I know but they've been pushing for the removal of theming in general for some time now, this is just another part of it.
This, if any of you aren't aware you should look into it because they are pushing for theme support to be removed from GTK, not just GNOME. And it's been a push in that direction for a while. They are not giving up on this.

>And why would they be against theming anyway?
Their story is that it "provides a inconsistent GNOME experience". I have no idea why that would be important. If I were to use GNOME at home, which I don't because I find it to be a horrible crippled desktop, I would probably still be able to use it somewhere else even if there was a different icon theme or god forbid the wallpaper's changed.

>>The problem we’re facing is the expectation that apps can be arbitrarily restyled without manual work, which is and has always been an illusion.
That's just a lie. Re-styling apps with themes worked just fine for decades and still works fine _except_ for some "modern" GTK3.9x applications == GNOME specific applications. And when you actually look into WHY there is a problem it's rather obvious why there is a problem: A theme will define a some primary colors. It will likely NOT have any specific CSS for your special little GNOME application; and trying to do that is futile. A theme developer can't make a special CSS for every single application out there.

If a program looks at the used themes primary colors then it'll work fine. This has been the way it's been done for a few decades now. With GNOME software there is a trend of using #mySpecialAppPrimaryColor and #mySpecialAppPrimaryBackground and CSS elements like that and no fall-back to general theme colors. The result is that most themes who naturally don't have #mySpecialAppPrimaryColor don't look right.

What the people who wrote OP's link are actually saying is that "Our software is broken in a way which prevents themes to work as expected. We are too incompetent to fix it so we are discouraging themes."

GNOMETODDLERS BTFO

It's a literally DE designed for children

That's simply just underhanded. If their goal was that they can indicate to the DE that their apps shouldn't be styled, they would go through gnome to add that option first and only then complain to distros when/if they don't respect it. Instead they are whining to distro maintainers to remove styling, knowing full well that that would currently mean removing styling altogether. Basically, they're pressuring distros to remove theming, because they're too lazy to make apps that work with it and too scared to openly admit that.

That's a problem with Ambiance, not with GTK. That video is over a year old and hopefully these issues have been fixed by now. Either way, the reaction there should be to suggest fixes to the Ambiance theme, NOT trying to avoid people from shipping themes altogether.
>Have you even tried to launch a non-elementary GTK app on Elementary OS? It's a fucking mess.
I've did and had no issues. Even Qt programs look good on elementary as long as they use the GTK theme. I actually run Pantheon but use Dolphin as my file manager (no GTK file manager comes close from the ones I've tried).
Literally nothing wrong with that sentence.
Unless you consider the freedom to own slaves. Then feel free to go with BSD.
That's literally what distros do, except they don't rebrand their packaging of DEs.
These guys get it.

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Bullshit the gpl is follow these specific restrictions (the terms) just like every license. You can not "do whatever you want but the code has to be open", its literally against the terms in the gpl to do that.

>open
It's not about openness, that's what open source whitewashing companies want you to believe. Only with freedom you can do these things.
Free Software > Open Source

The only slave owner is the project authors who choose the GPL.
>no no no, I said it's a green background Anonymous and you'll like it.

Elaborate.

For what benefit?

>copyright is freedom
The GPL is an actual joke that people take seriously for some reason.

>Basically, they're pressuring distros to remove theming,
What the fuck are you even talking about? Are you retarded? How the fuck Ubuntu shipping "Adwaita" instead of "Yaru" by default will remove theming?

shoulda just used Tk

You have to be either very greedy or retarded to view copyleft as something that restricts (You)r freedom. It's not about you or that faggot company that you wish would steal code. It's about everyone being more free, not just the parties you're invested in.

This reads like satire but I get the impression it was posted seriously.
Do you not even see the 2 bold face contradictions in your own post.
>copyleft
Calling copyright something else does not change what it is. The GPL is still a copyright license with restrictive clauses.

>It's about everyone being more free, not just the parties you're invested in.
I refuse to believe this was posted seriously. When you choose the GPL you're doing exactly that, helping only the parties you're interested in. It's not freedom in the slightest. It's the same bullshit of trying to redefine words. You can call it sunshine all you want but when it reads and smells like shit, I'm going to keep calling it shit.

cute

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>copyleft as something that restricts (You)r freedom
You have to be completely onions infused pants on head retarded to think freedom has anything to do with a restrictive license like the gpl.

this. funny how they use icons for firefox, transmission, and other well-known projects in their example image, instead of the shit made by the people who signed this.

>It's about everyone being more free, not just the parties you're invested in.

People who can use GPL projects:
GPL users who follow a specific list of legal rules, that if broken will result in a lawsuit

People who can use BSD, MIT, ISC, etc. projects:
Anyone, for any reason.

>/s
r*ddit tranny spotted

Not to mention the hard incompatibilities that have legitimately causes OS stagnation and pain for end users for MULTIPLE DECADES AND COUNTING.

You Reddit faggots really want to pretend like you invented everything don't you.
/s is older than Reddit and your age combined kiddo.

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>follow a specific list of legal rules
From the BSD license;
1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software
must display the following acknowledgement:
This product includes software developed by the .
4. Neither the name of the nor the
names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products
derived from this software without specific prior written permission.

copyleft is why GNU/Linux has left BSD in the dust.
>muh legal issues