Why the fuck is macOS worth anything

>- Programs installed via PKG cannot be uninstalled. Ever.
There are apps that automatically delete all the preference/library files. For almost all macOS apps files are kept in the same standard locations.
>- Maximize was replaced with Fullscreen, unless you use Cmd. What the actual fuck?
Maximize has always sucked ass on OS X so it was a useless button to begin with. Thankfully there are many great tools that make window management possible. I use BetterTouchTool for custom gestures and Windows like snapping and resizing and HyperDock which allows me to maximise windows by scrolling up on the title bar. Honestly would be lost without this functionality and I agree macOS sucks in that respect.
>- Fucking everything costs on the App store. No, I'm not cheap, but compare the plethora of chess programs available for both Windows and Linux, to dozens of Chess apps on the App store that cost anywhere from $3-$20, most with no great features beyond it's a fucking chess game.
Don't use the App Store, it's shit. That said both Stockfish and ChessX are free on Mac. Although personally I would rather play chess on lichess than using an app.
>Startup times
no idea what you're talking about desu
>Slow
I think if it's that slow you should consider investing in an SSD. I've had my mac for 7 years now (it was fully kitted out when I bought it) and it's still quite snappy for non graphics intensive tasks.
>Open with
not sure what you mean here
>Tools to make Mac faster
100% malware
>Xcode clt
It's happened to me once but usually I haven't had any problems.

as to macOS, I agree it has a lot of problems but ultimately it's down to preference. I can't use Windows, as much as they've polished up the UI recently it still feels dirty to use. Apple is a terrible company and is hellbent on making their computers worse in every possible way. Once my laptop becomes too outdated for me I'll probably have to put in the work and switch to some linux distro.

Also, yes, I definitely admin that going with an HDD instead of an SSD was a mistake. Possibly one of the biggest mistakes of my life.

But I ask you, is the core standard of an operating system from 2013 that it HAS to run on an SSD to be even remotely usable?

i ain't full GNU/Linux fuck boi too but Pantheon looks much better and i could just use unriced i3 anyway for less resource hog ( im now using i5 6200U laptop with 940M and 4gigs of ram) i3 unriced works like a charm and Pantheon is chill too.
i think why appelfags use MCbook is becouse they think they are superior becouse they have expensive stuff. No they are not. Im better off using GNU/Linux and make everyone think im some sorta hacker rather than use Appel
>Lesser population think GNU/Linux is for hackers n shit. fuck no it ain't

>There are apps that automatically delete all the preference/library files. For almost all macOS apps files are kept in the same standard locations.
What apps? Are they 3rd party?
>Maximize has always sucked ass on OS X so it was a useless button to begin with
Ok well....that's definitely not a pro, to say that an extremely basic feature has ALWAYS sucked on the OS.
>not sure what you mean here
See
>It's happened to me once but usually I haven't had any problems.
I don't understand what's up with me, then. It's not even when I try to use XCode.

>ultimately it's down to preference
Ok so that's a fair point. My question is, in what preferences is it actually good? Or does it require a 3-rd party solution to fix everything that comes OOTB?

>PKG files are more similar to actual installers on Windows
Oh, you mean .pkg files? If the application is properly made, all of its associated files will get removed when you drag the main application from the Applications folder to the trash. If an application doesn't do this, it's the developer's fault, not the OS'
>But in what world is fullscreen a better default than maximize?
Probably inside Jony Ive's white bubble. Fuck knows why they did this shit.
>Ok well then, this completely strips the idea of it being good as a dev OS if the libraries provided by the OS are shit.
They're pretty much the BSD versions, it's just that they get out of date with time.

It seems like every single complaint about waiting would get fixed by tossing that spinning rust piece of shit in the trash and replacing it with an SSD. Apple was very well known for shoving the slowest, shittiest hard drives in their machines.
All of their machines shipped from 2013 onwards have shipped with SSDs or "hybrid" drives, and older machines can have SSDs fitted no problem. Hard drives are incredibly slow and have been the main speed bottleneck in computers for decades.
Windows 10 is equally unusable running off a shit 4600rpm laptop hard drive, believe me.

been there I STILL do it.Thats why i switched to Debian and still use it. At least mine is 1Tb and in CD-ROM slot is 2Tb drive. NOT ssd i mind. I will propably throw away sometime in future that 1tb drive and replace with 256Gb extremely fast SSD.
One more question as i am not GNU/Linux pro. Can i use /home on difrent drive? and for the system use difrent drive?

Do it. You'll notice the speed difference. 1TB laptop drives aren't exactly fast.
>Can i use /home on difrent drive? and for the system use difrent drive?
Of course, just set it up that way in the fstab.

>- Virtual desktops are a fucking joke; both Cmd+Tab and the Dock show applications from all desktops, completely ruining the concept of compartmentalization, the whole purpose of a v desktop.
Agreed. They used to be called Spaces before, were arranged in a grid for easy access and actually had a preference pane where you could set which apps should open in which space and enable/disable the functionality when needed. It was too complicated for the average user so they completely butchered it and turned it into the desktops. Hardly ever use them now.
>Preview
Preview actually is pretty snappy, your computer is just too old and can't keep up
>What does macOS fulfill
It's the cleanness of a unix system with added stability and mainstream application support. Most lunix command line tools work perfectly on mac as well. Also almost everything can be done using keyboard shortcuts and never having to use a mouse. You seem to think this is a negative but for me it's one of the main reasons I have trouble with windows.
>system reboots
It's really not as bad as Windows, you can always postpone them they're never forced (although they can be sneaky at times)

>What apps? Are they 3rd party?
Yes, I use AppCleaner, a free app.
Either way, as some user has already mentioned, most of the time removing library and preference files is not very important. .app apps are self contained, it's not like windows where large files are all over the place. The only apps where you might have to remove things other than the .app are usually bulky suites that will come with an uninstaller anyway.

>3rd party
Personally I would feel a bit lost without a lot of third party tools. But using the third party tools I mentioned I love the ecosystem (most of the time). QuickTime player sucks, but mpv is great. Once you install 3rd party apps it's great.

I have both a Mac and a PC
Honestly, if I have work to do and am in a hurry I don't even bother on the Mac anymore
>finder is horse shit
>simple things as window manipulation is horse shit
>I fucking hate Apple keyboard shortcuts (command vs control)
>Pletora of folders you actually need to use but are hidden and thus have to open via shell
>Slow as fuck OS
>Same software just run faster on windows
>The fucking beach ball, windows hasn't crashed for years here, MacOS is now less stable than windows
Man I could go on all day long...

Oh thanks, user! Then i will reinstall Debian in future and use 256Gb ssd for system and 2Tb drive for /home as i think all the stuff i install goes there? If not then well shit. i would still use it as /home becouse well files, music, movies, games and everything else. And yes i play games on GNU/Linux. Even League of legends has now packet in snapd. I usualy use snap install LeagueOfLegends and im done. No more fucking around with Wine and Lutris.

I don't own a mac and I've been a GNU/linux fag since I was like 12, but I was in a costco fucking about on a 15 inch touchbar macbook pro when I opened up the terminal and typed vim. On the touch bar was an option to open up the man page for vim. I was extremely impressed and the overall design and build quality. I could never afford one tho being the broke ass college student I am

What do people hate so much about finder? I don't get it, what am I missing out of in Windows land?

>Apple was very well known for shoving the slowest, shittiest hard drives in their machines
I know I said "No Apple as a company", but Jesus Christ.

>Oh, you mean .pkg files?
Yeah. And now I'm confused, first I'm told there are 3rd party apps for removing preference and libraries. Then I'm told you can just remove the app. Which is it?

>Personally I would feel a bit lost without a lot of third party tools.
I don't mean to disparage 3rd party tools. Yeah, on Windows, I use basically all 3rd party tools. But my point that I'm trying to walk a fine line with is "You can't say it including Ruby and Python is a plus if the versions are shit and have to be replaced"

>All of their machines shipped from 2013 onwards
This is just factually false. I bought my MBP in 2013 and had the option to choose HDD or SSD. Yes, I made the wrong choice.

I'll concede the speed points with this though: I knew going in that an HDD would not be as peppy as an SSD. But I didn't expect it to make the system unusable from factory settings. I guess that's my point.

same user as
i haven't realy noticed how GNU/Linux has gone very very friendly with games and stuff like that, It realy shows how much people have dedication for freedom of Winstuff. I love this community DESU

OP here. I appreciate all the feedback and how calmly the discussion is going.

I'm afraid I've had a misdirection of focus. I didn't mean this to be a bash on the OS, I truly want to find its benefits.

What it's got going for it:
- It's good for certain niches: primarily photography and audio & video production
- The trackpad driver is absolutely fucking amazing. While this comes close to hardware, it's truly the driver; Linux installed on the same hardware doesn't even compete.
- The ".app" approach to programs is actually pretty fucking neato.
- It's UNIX, and thus has all the good development environment that *NIX can offer.
- It looks pretty. From the visuals to the automation.
- Finder's different views ARE better than a lot of file managers, most notably Windows Explorer.
- Finder has tabs. This should have been standard back in 2005, when all 3rd party Windows file managers included it as a feature, but oh well, it does have them.
- SOME built-in apps are decent.
\\- Disk Utility, Time Machine, Mail, and a few others are actually pretty good
- Expose is actually pretty neat.
- Spotlight? Honestly I don't use it much but I know I should.

Pic somewhat related.

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>>I fucking hate Apple keyboard shortcuts (command vs control)
macOS's keyboard shortcuts are possibly the best thing about it.
>hidden folders
the ones that are hidden by default you just have to use chflags nohidden /path/to/dir and they will remain visible
if you're talking about .files and .folders you have to use defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE && killall Finder

you can also always use cmd+shift+g to enter the path manually

>Virtual desktops are a fucking joke; both Cmd+Tab and the Dock show applications from all desktops, completely ruining the concept of compartmentalization, the whole purpose of a v desktop.
Agreed. Spaces was so much better.
>"Preview" is not a preview. It's a fully featured document viewer, and thus is not snappy, like one would expect a "preview" to be
That's because "Preview" isn't a preview. What you're looking for is called "Quick look", and you invoke it by pressing the space bar. Retarded naming, but works well.
>It does NOT "just werk"; there's a reason the Genius Bar exists, and why there's a fucking 2 hour line every time you go, at any time of day.
Nothing "just werks". Computers aren't magic, not even Apple's.
>Also, I never hear this explained; how does it "just work"? How is it "more polished"?
It's all marketing. None of that is true.
>I've also heard "it all depends on what you want to do with your PC"; ok, what fucking "want" does macOS fulfill?
At this point it's all just personal preference. Its the closest thing to a proper desktop UNIX with commercial support left these days, so there's that.
>This argument DOES hold up...if you want it to be a fucking web browser, office suite (almost ALWAYS from the competitor, Microsoft),
Yes.
>Auto-window resizing. Not only do I want maximize when I click fucking maximize, the choice of window size ALWAYS fucking sucks, in that it's too small for the purpose of whatever application.
Yup, it's absolute dogshit.
>Forced system reboots. Even when I say "Remind me later", it eventually does it without my permission.
I haven't experienced this yet, but I've heard it happen before.
>The only way to take a screenshot is a keyboard shortcut. What the fuck.
I don't see how that's a problem.
>Which is it?
If the app was made by a competent developer, you won't need to do anything but drag it to the trash. If it was made poorly, you'll need a third party application to remove all the shit.

I see your point but allow me to retort:

I don't see having to drop into CLI to have such a basic feature. Especially when one of the major arguments for macOS over Linux is "You don't have to drop into the command line to do stuff"

to be fair man, you have a six year old laptop. it's a bit normal it's going to need an upgrade.

Oh boy there we go
>b-b-but you can sh-sh-show them if you tweak the OS goy!!!
Aren't we talking out of the box?

To be fair usualy after installs i have to open file manager and tick show hidden files too. But i unno about CLI. Haven't realy used CLI for hiden file exploration.
>inb4 i use Thunar

>Retarded naming, but works well.
Ok, fair point. I do use Quick Look all the time. But you're right, it is just the name in the end.
>At this point it's all just personal preference.
See
though I'll repeat:
"My question is, in what preferences is it actually good?"
>I don't see how [screenshot shortcut] is a problem.
Is it documented somewhere clearly? Ok, yeah, there's no PrintScreen button, which is obvious via the name. But does macOS actually tell you how to create a screenshot up front, or do you have to google?

Yup, I've already conceded that for performance issues. Doesn't matter for anything else in the post you quoted.

You should start using Spotlight. It really is one of the best thing about macOS. cmd+space and everything (files, apps, folders) is at your fingertips.
And yeah, Time Machine is also great. It's saved me several times and everything was back to working fine with almost no hassle.

I don't think that's a fair complaint. apple hides library files and dotfiles because unless you're tinkering they're not really necessary and it's good to protect normies. Same as how 3rd party apps can't be used unless you disable gatekeeper.
I'm not a fan of iOS because it's very restrictive, but with macOS you can remove all the floaters easily and use it properly if that's what you need.

It's just a setting. It's the same as editing HKEY registries in windows but less of a pain in the ass.
Just because it isn't a setting in the GUI doesn't mea it doesn't come with it out the box.

macOS works really bad on HDDs, you should swap it for an SSD if you can
>What apps? Are they 3rd party?
Try AppCleaner
>The only way to take a screenshot is a keyboard shortcut
There is a built in app for that

Ok so what do I like about macOS
1. previewing files with space
2. more file types have previews in thumbnails than windows
3. It has well implemented gestures for trackpad
4. I like cmd+tab/cmd+` approach to switching apps more than windows ctrl+tab
5. I love the feature in safari that allows to preview links by tapping 3 fingers on it
6. Can change most shortcuts in the system preferences and even create new ones
7. Search in global menu is sometimes useful
8. You can open any file in any programm by dragging it onto the program icon no matter where it is. On windows it doesn't work on taskbar and stat menu but works in explorer
9. Columns view in Finder
10. Can move files/rename or even delete while they are open in some program and and continue working on it
11. In any file editor program the file icon in the title bar works the same as in a file manager, you can grab it and place it in a folder and the actual file moves too, can cmd click it to see where the file is located
12. Stoplight
13. Guest user
14. Most apps use the built in notification system so I can easily temrorary disable all notifications when I'm sowing something on my computer to other people
15. 2 of the widgets are actually useful to me
(calendar/weather)
16. I like some of the apps that come with it like Reminders, Notes and Calendar
17. Folders in dock

>Pletora of folders you actually need to use but are hidden and thus have to open via shell
cmd+shift+.

>I bought my MBP in 2013 and had the option to choose HDD or SSD. Yes, I made the wrong choice.
But it's a 2012 model (the best one ever made, by the way). There are no options for fitting a hard drive in a 2013+ model.
>But I didn't expect it to make the system unusable from factory settings.
That's Apple for you. The things they get right, they get very right. The things they get wrong, they completely fuck up.
Yeah, GNU/Linux has definitely gotten better in the user friendliness part. The problem is, it gives the users less choice as time passes. There's the whole systemd thing, for example.
>OP here. I appreciate all the feedback and how calmly the discussion is going.
You just wait until that false-flagging Apple shill comes here and starts shitting up the thread.
>I don't see having to drop into CLI to have such a basic feature
You have to think this is to prevent your average user from fucking up the system.
Windows requires an equally convoluted process, even if it doesn't require using the CLI. Most file managers on GNU/Linux don't require you to do any of this because, well, if you're using GNU/Linux, chances are you know which shit you shouldn't mess with.
>"My question is, in what preferences is it actually good?"
If you want something commercial with a proper UNIX certification and a decent UI, it's pretty much your only option. GNU/Linux is just UNIX-Like, and things like Solaris and IRIX are completely dead. I know I'd be using Solaris instead of OS X to this day if I could. Fuck Oracle.
>But does macOS actually tell you how to create a screenshot up front
The shortcut is under the keyboard shortcuts menu in System Preferences. And if you look up Screenshot in Spotlight, the Macintosh Help (or whatever it's called these days) should come up with a guide.

>You should start using Spotlight.
Spotlight on a hard drive is slow as molasses. But indeed, OP should start using it once he upgrades to an SSD

>apple hides library files and dotfiles because unless you're tinkering they're not really necessary and it's good to protect normies
I see your point and I'll just agree to disagree.

You are right. It's great that it does come out of the box. But my retort would be that a modern operating system should be concerned with HOW you do it, not just IF you can.

Me and most the devs at work use macbook pros. It just werks

>You are right. It's great that it does come out of the box. But my retort would be that a modern operating system should be concerned with HOW you do it, not just IF you can.
Personally I much prefer being able to modify things through simple command lines that I can copy and paste or save as an alias than having to go through menus with a mouse.
My terminal is always open anyway.

>But it's a 2012 model (the best one ever made, by the way)
Ok, yes, fair. But wow, "the best one ever made" and it can't use an HDD? I know I'm arguing a losing battle, but can't we agree that at least SOMETHING is off?

>Yeah, GNU/Linux has definitely gotten better in the user friendliness part. The problem is, it gives the users less choice as time passes. There's the whole systemd thing, for example.

yes but i can just use Devuan to run away from SystemD. Or use other distro which doesnt use SystemD. People have choice with GNU/Linux after all.

OP here.

This thread has given me a lot of insight.

Basically I see two polar opposite camps: one that like the shiny UI and doesn't care about customizing.

The other more savvy likes it because it's UNIX.

But on the latter point, I still don't understand its advantage over Linux in this situation; what benefit, for a personal PC -even for a developer- does having a POSIX-compliant OS have over a UNIX-like OS?

>Ok, yes, fair. But wow, "the best one ever made" and it can't use an HDD?
I don't understand. It has an upgradeable 2.5" media bay (two if you remove the optical drive), something no later model has. It can use whatever you put in that bay.
>can't we agree that at least SOMETHING is off?
Yes. Apple shoving literal bottom of the barrel drives in high-end machines.
>yes but i can just use Devuan to run away from SystemD. Or use other distro which doesnt use SystemD
And so can I. And it's what I do on my laptop. But having to actively avoid a piece of software and just choosing not to use it are two very different things. Even when using Devuan you have to make compromises like installing things like systemd shims and pulseaudio just so things don't break.

Don't worry, you're right. macOS is far from the perfect system. It has many many flaws.
At the end of the day you've got to figure out what you like working with. You can always install windows on it and use it as a windows laptop.
There's definitely things you can do to make your experience better if you're gonna stick with it though.

It actually adheres to some standards, instead of loosely trying to be compatible with them. Though this is becoming less and less true over time, as Apple is currently going back to its 90s self and it's removing standard stuff like OpenGL left and right. And the things that don't get removed, get out of date to the point of being deprecated and not standard anymore.
As much as people liked to bitch about having 15 different unices in the market, at least it forced some standardization. You could write a UNIX application and you'd know it'd compile and run fine on pretty much everything except for NT. Now, with OS X being actively killed by Apple, and GNU/Linux being the alternative, it isn't the case anymore.
In a couple of years there will literally be no reason to use OS X at all.

OP here, (probably) final post.

I really appreciate all the input. Even though I'm still upset that an OS from 2012 can't function on a HDD, I've realized that most of my reasons for hating it are related to its speed. Granted, I DO still find many of the design choices absolutely ridiculous, but as many people say, "preference" has a heavy pull. Even if I personally think that some of those poor choices are objectively worse....

So yeah, lesson learned, I fucked up 6 years ago and couldn't fix the mistake because I'm poor as fuck. (Yes, I bought a Mac on credit. I was hoping to learn to dev for iOS. But again: broke as fuck.)

I'll be lurking for any new insight but mostly I feel like I've gotten a lot out of this thread.

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>But on the latter point, I still don't understand its advantage over Linux in this situation; what benefit, for a personal PC -even for a developer- does having a POSIX-compliant OS have over a UNIX-like OS?
for me it's just what I'm used to using. I've customised everything to the point where it works perfectly just for me.
But I've had the same laptop since 2012. Seeing how garbage the new ones are, I don't see myself getting a new one.
I will most likely build myself a hackintosh desktop and I'll have to figure out which linux distro to use for a laptop.

SSDs aren't even that expensive right now. You can get a 1TB m2 sata for

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I can't take you seriously when your criticism of OS X is about startup/shutdown and sleep/awake times. I doubt you have used it a single day in a personal machine when you say that.

Since the Tiger and Leopard days in 2008-2009, even with slowass mechanical HDDs, shutdown and sleep/awake was ridiculously fast on the Mac, compared to the contemporary Vista.
So much that when I showed a friend how quickly an old mac mini would shutdown, he though that I just turned off the screen. Complete system shutdown was quicker than a Vista suspend.
Restoring from sleep was instantaneous. I mean a second or two, that instantaneous.

Also, Finder. For all its peculiarities I don't think there exists a better default file manager. Tabs and tagging out of the box, instantaneous search finetuned with a thousand different parameters (even stuff like geotags or bitrate or whatever).
And integration with quicklook that gives you instant previews of any file (music files, video files, images, PDFs, even photoshop files and html documents, or any other document).

Finder is one of the main reasons I keep using OS X, cause finding and opening files is a major point of interaction with the OS when not using a browser.

The only criticism I have is with Spaces and Exposé. That shit peaked with Snow Leopard and has had a severe downgrade eversince.
In Snow Leopard you could activate spaces with a hot corner (say, dragging the cursor to the bottom left corner), and it would show a grid of all the desktops at the same size. Then you could hit space and you had Exposé showing *all* windows, each spread out on the tile of the desktop it belonged. Then you could drag and drop any window, from any desktop (space) to another. If you couldn't see clearly what was on a window in that spread out view, you could hover over it and hit space to show a maximized preview.
Worked perfectly and there was nothing like it once you -easily- learnt how to use it.

And then it all went to shit.

OSX I can easily browse half a dozen different fullscreen applications one handed using multi finger swipes and I like using safari picture in picture

>that's definitely not a pro, to say that an extremely basic feature has ALWAYS sucked on the OS.
The other user tries to pass an opinion (maximise sucked) as a fact.
Thing is, maximise did exactly what it was supposed to do. It showed the maximum content in the least amount of space. It's designed for efficiency, not fullscreen. It would stretch the windows as far as there was more information (text, app controls, media, etc.) to show, but no more. So you could have room to open more windows without having to manually resize each window to exactly cover its contents.

Windows (the OS) would just waste space and fullscreen the window even if there was nothing more to show, just blank grey space.
The MacOS method is more efficient and that's a fact. If for pure aesthetics you prefer a fullscreened app with blank space that's on you.
But the maximise behaviour on Mac OS comes from the day when design was supposed to be how it worked, not how it looked. And that method worked better and more efficiently.

It's a polished Unix-like from a big name that runs commercial software. There's nothing more or less to it.
>- Maximize was replaced with Fullscreen, unless you use Cmd. What the actual fuck?
I stopped reading here because it's painfully obvious 90% of your issues with it are literally "it's not just like Windows and I don't want to adapt to change or otherwise attempt to understand it"

>- Programs installed via PKG cannot be uninstalled. Ever.
Use package manager.
>- Maximize was replaced with Fullscreen, unless you use Cmd. What the actual fuck?
Just double click on the title bar of the window.
>- Fucking everything costs on the App store. No, I'm not cheap, but compare the plethora of chess programs available for both Windows and Linux, to dozens of Chess apps on the App store that cost anywhere from $3-$20, most with no great features beyond it's a fucking chess game.
Use package manager, FOSS is available on macOS.
>- Ridiculously long startup times. I'm talking 10 minutes just to get to login, then more after that during which the system is unresponsive.
20 seconds (few seconds go to aptiomemoryfix, so it should be even faster on legit hw) and it's instantly responsive after login. Time to get SSD?
>- Restoring from sleep -suspend to RAM, not disk- takes almost as long as a complete startup.
Almost instant, like on any other OS.
>- Slow as balls. Yeah, mine is aging but no matter what, I don't know of any reason it should take 30+ seconds to search for an app in what could, presumably, be done in 1 query.
Are we talking about Spotlight? Instant.
>- Bringing up the "Open With" context menu requires "Searching". What the fuck?
Instant.
>- (If you doubt this as being a common problem, explain the large market built around making tools to make your Mac faster; far more than Windows.)
Not OS problem. I have noticed that such applications are more likely to be used by those who have switched from windows and believe that they need ccleaner or some malwarebytes shit.
>- Finder fucking sucks ass compared to nearly all other file managers. I can elaborate if needed.
Elaborate, it's better than file explorer at least.
>- Xcode command line tools have to be reinstalled after every goddamn update
? It just works.

Upgrade your ancient dinosaur computer, OP.

>Use package manager.
Oh, boy I remember that thread where an idiot keep moving the goalpost when anons demostrated that macOS in fact has a native package management systems.
I like macOS. Is Unix, can run my VSTs on it, its less annoying that Windows 10 and I got used to its quirks (most of these are because Apple had a different conception of how windows and the desktop work)
My great wish is that Apple open sources it. If you clean the code base, change Darwin to seL4 and do other tweaks it would be the perfect operating system for desktops.

MACTODDLERS BTFO

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>>Pletora of folders you actually need to use but are hidden and thus have to open via shell
ouch ouch ouch, newbie

>My great wish is that Apple open sources it.
This desu. Even if they just open-sourced the [current year - 10] version, would be a big help.

>But I didn't expect it to make the system unusable from factory settings. I guess that's my point.
I have used mavericks on my 2012 laptop that had hdd at the time and it was a bit faster than windows 8, your hdd shit the bed before it even started.

>- Programs installed via PKG cannot be uninstalled. Ever.
False.

>- Maximize was replaced with Fullscreen, unless you use Cmd. What the actual fuck?
And cmd is difficult because???

>- Fucking everything costs on the App store. No, I'm not cheap,
No it doesn't and yes you are. Also: it's not an iPhone, there's a world outside the fucking app store. There are probably a dozen good FOSS chess programs if you just look for them.

>- Ridiculously long startup times. I'm talking 10 minutes just to get to login,
Buy a SSD for fuck's sake. 30s boot times, even less.

>- Restoring from sleep -suspend to RAM, not disk- takes almost as long as a complete startup.
Laughably false.

>- Slow as balls.
You don't have enough RAM and/or have a shit hard drive. I have a 2011 MBP 16gb 1tb SSD and it flies. Also have a 2015 MBP 16gb 1tb SSD which flies as well.

>I don't know of any reason it should take 30+ seconds to search for an app in what could, presumably, be done in 1 query.
Because you never replaced the hdd with a ssd and macOS, Windows, and most major distros of Linux now assume you have a fast ssd. You also probably have 4gb or even 2gb of RAM. If you're never going to upgrade those components then you should have stuck with the OS and software versions that were shipping when you bought the damn thing.

>- Bringing up the "Open With" context menu requires "Searching". What the fuck?
On my 2011 and 2015 MBPs it's instantaneous.

>- (If you doubt this as being a common problem, explain the large market built around making tools to make your Mac faster; far more than Windows.)
I know of no such tools that are not scamware.

>- Finder fucking sucks ass compared to nearly all other file managers. I can elaborate if needed.
It has pros and cons but does not suck.

>- Xcode command line tools have to be reinstalled after every goddamn update
No idea what you're talking about.

And still sucks at media producing.
Recently tried to use a legit version of Pro Tools Ultimate (2016) with Mojave and refuses to work properly because Apple changed some stuff on their crappy OS.
I'd have to pay 900€ to upgrade to the latest Pro Tools version (working with Mojave)... or I can use it on Windows which works as expected.

>Is it documented somewhere clearly? Ok, yeah, there's no PrintScreen button, which is obvious via the name. But does macOS actually tell you how to create a screenshot up front, or do you have to google?
pic related

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>- Virtual desktops are a fucking joke; both Cmd+Tab and the Dock show applications from all desktops, completely ruining the concept of compartmentalization, the whole purpose of a v desktop.
Assign apps and key combos to your v desktops. Now hit the key combo you want to jump to the app you want.

>- "Preview" is not a preview. It's a fully featured document viewer, and thus is not snappy, like one would expect a "preview" to be
Buy a ssd and some ram you cheap fuck.

>\\- I've also heard "it all depends on what you want to do with your PC"; ok, what fucking "want" does macOS fulfill?
UNIX with a fantastic gui, solid 3rd party commercial app support, and excellent security. With Linux you can get Linux/security but not the others. With Windows you can get good GUI/3rd party apps but shit security and not based on nix.

>- Auto-window resizing. Not only do I want maximize when I click fucking maximize, the choice of window size ALWAYS fucking sucks,
Cmd-click maximizes to the screen so not sure what you're doing wrong.

>- Forced system reboots. Even when I say "Remind me later", it eventually does it without my permission.
Turn off auto updates. You shouldn't be auto updating until you buy a ssd and some ram any way cheap fuck.

>- The only way to take a screenshot is a keyboard shortcut. What the fuck.
There are a billion tools that will give you other ways to do it. For fuck's sake you could probably code an AppleScript to do it.

/thread

>Normal macOS applications are .APP files, which you just drag to Applications and off you go. PKG files are more similar to actual installers on Windows. However, there is NOT uninstall method. Period.
The vendor should provide one. If they don't that's on them. No different from Windows except this is a potential issue for EVERY Windows application.

>>This could be a hardware issue, even my Hackintosh with a cheapo SSD from six years ago boots in under a minute
>First: yes, I have an HDD. But that's no excuse; Apple designed and sold it this way,
No, they designed the OS that shipped with it for a hdd. Current versions from EVERYONE expect a ssd. It's the way the industry went.

You want Apple to optimize macOS Mojave for a fucking 3.5" floppy to???

>It's been like this ever since I got it.
I can literally pull out an old black MacBook I restored that has a hdd and like 2gb of ram and disprove this. In fact I often pull it out to point out to people how much bloat there is in the entire industry. But it is what it is and the last few versions of macOS...and Windows and major Linux distros...all want ssds. So buy one.

>>It's right there when you right/option click, what are you talking about?
>Sorry, I used the wrong word. "Fetching". And again, this has taken usually about 10 seconds, ever since I got the machine.
Buy a ssd and some ram.

>Ok well then, this completely strips the idea of it being good as a dev OS if the libraries provided by the OS are shit.
It's a good dev OS because the VM options are stellar which means you can dev for macOS, iOS, Windows, Linux, and Android from one notebook. Fuck, I even have an old NeXTSTEP VM for fucking around.

But you will want a SSD AND SOME FUCKING RAM.

>ranting because you have to take screenshots with key combinations
I fuckin love that, retard. You don't need to open shit to get a partial screenshot too.

>fucking up their pro apps horribly now
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>now
You should have heard the absolute screeching when Apple rebooted Final Cut Pro with less than half the features it previously had.

Attached: 1557717290170.png (319x338, 152K)

>defaults
I love defaults system, it's great

>macOS in fact has a native package management systems.
wait what? not memeing what is it?

If we're going niche, OSX is still far and ahead when it comes to music production.
Core Audio is easily the best low level audio api out there. JACK sounds amazing on paper, but its implementation leaves a lot to be desired, and ASIO has always been a hacked together third party solution. Also, since Core Audio is a first party driver, that means every audio interface made for OSX can be used simultaneously, unlike ASIO where every manufacturer writes their own ASIO interpretation.
Beyond that, it gets the same benefit as iPhone, where OSX is the lead platform DAW developers target. Not only does every major DAW support it, but it has both VST and AAX support, as well as some exclusive software and hardware.
I'm also sure backwards compatibility is a bonus too. I assume a lot of niche software was developed for it too back when Windows was completely unviable for music production, but I do wonder how much stuff worked after the jump from PowerPC to x86. Keep in mind, I don't use OSX.

if you have a bootcamp partition try entering defaults read and enjoy the ride

meant for

Yep.
Launchd + filesystems + some utilities in command line. Those enable the magic that makes install apps a simple drag and drop procedure.
Its true that Apple doesn't design the infrastructure of package management to be directly manipulated by the end user, like other unices. In the ideal Apple world, you use the App Store to install and uninstall shit. But there's the infrastructure, its used and that's what makes things like homebrew and drag-and-drop application installing possible.
We had a thread about that some years ago:
warosu.org/g/thread/S60777555

this used to piss me off, but over time it became clear they went the "this codebase sucks, full rewrite now and update as we re-add features." Logic was the only package where they apparently got everything done between 9 and 10, but it's really clear with what-used-to-be-called-iWork.

>but it has both VST and AAX support
Wait Core Audio has VST support now? I thought it was just AU.

Well, Apple, in fact, provides a VST system path OOB.

What is 2+2

But first, some groundrules:
- No 4

based

"Programs installed via PKG cannot be uninstalled. Ever." What the fuck? There goes my last thought of ever buying a MacBook. I gave up on the idea because you're paying 2000 extra for a laptop designed by fucking interns that think putting a 1.2v cpu rail next to a 45v power rail is a good idea.

sound like you are running a shit hackintosh. all of your cons don't actually happen on a real mac. and only retards install random (read malware laden) PKG files they find on the internet

I don't know what's Apple's beef with OSX on "non-Apple-branded computers," seems hypocritical since they abandoned PowerPC in favor of Intel.

Attached: Screen Shot 2019-05-24 at 9.01.49 PM.png (922x956, 239K)

5-1 or 3+1

Its most a measure to avoid companies to ship macOS. Apple doesn't give shit about users doing hackintosh.

the guy is a fucking retard tbf, you obviously can uninstall programs installed via .pkg

>K, cool, so what are the actual bonuses to that, and why are they as good or better than Linux?
You get to use a functional *bsd operating system, and run proprietary software. That's literally the allure. That's the joke.
>i think why appelfags use MCbook is becouse they think they are superior becouse they have expensive stuff.
I think that you have a complex, and you're looking too much into things.
People use/buy apple, because they want to.
You don't, because you don't want to.
Who's better? Probably the Chad's, and Stacey's who use apple products not for serious computing, but just to fuck each other while filtering the losers who anonymously complain about a brand that they don't even buy.

>Its most a measure to avoid companies to ship macOS.
Apple is being a bit pic related there.

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>Ridiculously long startup times. I'm talking 10 minutes just to get to login, then more after that during which the system is unresponsive.
The SSD on my MBA died a month or so ago. For a few days while I was waiting for the new drive (and adapter because fuck spending the money on Apple's proprietary port SSDs when I can get an m.2 one), I booted the machine from a USB hard disk, and it was nowhere near that slow. It took like one literal minute to boot off of the external disk. It wasn't snappy, but it didn't chug.
With the old SSD, it took like 20 seconds, and it takes less than 15s off of the current one.
You might want a faster disk and/or a reinstall.
I'm also assuming your CPU isn't dramatically slower than an early 2014-era laptop i5.

>Maximize was replaced with Fullscreen, unless you use Cmd. What the actual fuck?
double click the title bar for zoom
dunno why they changed it though, fullscreen blows

>Bringing up the "Open With" context menu requires "Searching". What the fuck?
what

>Finder fucking sucks ass compared to nearly all other file managers. I can elaborate if needed.
I can at least get behind this one. Why in god's name can't I cut and paste files?
actually, it's an uncomfortably recent addition that you can copy and paste files in Finder
pretty sure Jobs was dead when they added the feature, but don't actually quote me on that

>Fucking everything costs on the App store.
I've never actually obtained any software from the App Store. I dunno why anyone would bother to be honest.

I suggest you to revise what happened when apple launched the clone program in the 90s

Same reason property is outrageously overpriced in any city that has a large number of faggots living there and involved in politics, fags fuck everything up. Prove me wrong. Protip: you can't.

>I can at least get behind this one. Why in god's name can't I cut and paste files?
copy and paste is cmd+c -> cmd+v (it's been like this for as long as I can remember and I've been using it since Tiger)
cut and paste is cmd+c -> cmd+alt+v

>warosu.org/g/thread/S60777555
christ, that guy was fuming
a lot of his complaints are completely wrong, but I agree that pkgutil could use an upgrade

Why can't Apple just take a page from Microsoft's book?

Attached: Screen Shot 2019-05-24 at 10.26.40 PM.png (2738x1516, 1.08M)

>cmd+alt+v
why in the living fuck isn't that mentioned in the edit menu or something

copy+paste (cmd+c/cmd+v) is something that took until after OS X came out to be applied to files for whatever reason

Because people would finally realize how crazy it is that MS is able to have Windows work with 100% of hardware in a trillion different combinations while macOS crashes, freezes, and kernel panics on 99.999% of hardware configurations. They can barely get a functioning system on their 5 or so static hardware configurations. Allowing people to see how shit macos truly is would be a disaster for Apple.

Feel blessed that you didn't waste money on that. Those are the most prone to breaking down.

Apple could have their subsequent, branded computers in limited production. Collectors (and/or scalpers) will keep the next-gen iMacs and MacBooks in their original packaging, and the iToddlers will get even further BTFO

>imagine needing to know a long ass command just to see hidden files
>imagine not having a quick hotkey combo or button because the devs are certain you'll make additional work for them

>hit compile
>massive throttling

It's like linux but actually polished (but of course also with drawbacks)
I like it as a hackintosh

>things that don't happen: the post

Imagine it being open sourced, and everyone digs through the code simply to laugh at the fuck ups.

I got an Asus Flip C302 and it's amazing. Fuck Apple and their overpriced garbage.

Go make a macOS USB installer, plug it into any computer, and see how far you get. That's the state of macOS.