When you guys were talking about how easy it is to get a high paying STEM job you left out the most important part

The average American with a completely average degree earns more than the average UK Oxbridge graduate.

LITERALLY just put in the slightest bit of effort growing up and you'll be doing better than the absolute elite here

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So Finns work in Sweden, Swedes work in Norway, Norway works in Usa? Who works in Finland?

>living in a fucking late stage capitalist nightmare
>easy mode
lel

>Who works in Finland?
People from the Baltic countries.

>eu brainlet doesn't know employers cover insurance and only the most destitute americans aren't covered
feels good not paying for poor people and getting to keep my tax money

How about if you factor in COL?

Who works in the Baltic countries?

america does even better if you factor in cost of living, it's much cheaper in every way compared to europe

I keep failing the personality tests. Am I supposed to lie? Is that the normal thing to do?

The us is cheaper than the UK so the difference gets even larger

>Muh loans
The average UK student loan (45k USD) is greater than the average American loan (37k). And of course, college is legitimately free in the us if you're a strong student whereas in the UK it doesn't matter how good you are you're paying.

yes, everybody lies in interviews

have fun paying $4000 rent for a 1000 sqft apartment

This isnt the 80s 99% of insurances have high deductibles. So you'll still be out 10k a year for a surgery etc before getting everything else covered

there are high paying american tech jobs outside of SF. if you think the average american pays more than the average european for the same amount of space you've never been to either region. everything in america is bigger, cheaper, and newer.

Not everyone lives in CA you fucking retard. My 15 year mortgage on a 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom house with a finished basement, basketball court and 4 acres of land is only 1400 a month lol

>living 2 meters from downtown core
Never go full retard user.

>richfag american doesn't know that your out of pocket expenses for "full coverage" are still fucking ridiculous and even uninsured, "poor people" in even shitty countries pay less than insured idiots in the USA

>$1200
That's nothin-
>weekly
Fuck my fucking shithole

euros who try and argue the job market in europe is better than america always take the wrong angle.

you simply can't argue that it's easier to get a good job, or that there's more jobs, or that they pay more. no matter how much you try and spin it it's so far from true you never come out ahead.

the true benefits of working in europe are:
>european culture
>better work life balance
>more interesting travel nearby

for those things you give up a lot of money, a lot of living niceties, and a lot of career options. pretending one or the other is better across the board is retarded because it's so obviously not true.

c'mon brainlet UK student loans are essentially 0

it's a 9% tax, sure but not a debt you should worry about... gets wiped.

And the healthcare. If Europe lowered it's immigration it would be ideal.

healthcare is not better in europe for tech workers, it's only better if you are a below average earner. otherwise you come out behind from higher taxes. this is another completely retarded angle to argue from.

Nobody in the UK pays off their student loan. Don't start paying it back until you earn £26k+ and it's wiped at 40. Scots don't even pay tuition.

No one AFAIK, they are fleeing en masse.

Alright it was slightly misleading

Still I'd pick the us system any day where it's literally free for most strong students

That graph is from the UK, I assume? Because 4-5k net a month is easily achievable in Europe, for a software developer.

>he still thinks there is such thing as free stuff from the government, especially as a college graduate high income earner
Someone dropped you as a baby.

>america does even better if you factor in cost of living
I'm not so sure: Looks like the norwegian guy in that thread is living pretty comfy on a "shitty" EU salary, despite living in an expensive socialist shithole like Norway and paying 32% taxes.

>comparing the massive outlier in income that is norway to america as a whole
why is the european education system so bad?

All jobs, all colleges, USA

Obviously computer science at top universities there is faaaar higher

Healthcare is only better if you make minimum wage and work part time or some shit. After you add up taxes, and other shit for your local medical costs of being middle class income (see nothing is free) then it costs less in the states. Add car insurance too, and you're just getting fucking ass raped.

We're in a thread where people think that the 150k+ salaries of SV is the norm, user. Also, a 70k EUR salary is in no way a high salary at all, not even by European standards.

Oh ok, never mind what I said then.

>low income earners are comfy in radical socialism
Yeah just as comfy as anyone with a competent high paying job I bet you. Makes you think, I wonder what motivation he has to contribute to society or better himself? Little to none, because there is little to no incentive.

I get $3,600 after taxes every 2 weeks, and my mortgage is only $1,800 a month. Health Care is provided, and food is stupid cheap in America.

Coming from a third world country, this is a dream. I remember back then the most expensive thing my family spent a month was on food.

>just have oil bro

Is South East Asia citizens considered a minority in USA? I want to apply for green card!

yes overall but in california and other tech centers there are huge asian populations. mostly chinese tho

You're a Canadian too?

>Yeah just as comfy as anyone with a competent high paying job I bet you.
70k EUR is neither low income, nor high income. In Norway, the median salary is actually 450k NOK (which is 46 EUR). Everyone memes either about how high salaries are in Norway or how high taxes are, but it seems pretty comfy.

> Makes you think, I wonder what motivation he has to contribute to society or better himself? Little to none, because there is little to no incentive.
Taking part in the rat race and trying to maximize income is not contributing to society or bettering yourself, user. Stop being a greedy fuck. Seeing how he probably pays more in taxes than any US citizen does, he contributes more to society by that alone.

So you're bettering yourself only because you'd be fucked otherwise? Not because you have an intrinsic desire to improve?

>implying the US isn't fucking rich
I mean, California and Texas are the fifth and tenth largest economies in the world respectively. The US is an economic powerhouse.

a new grad in tech would pay more in taxes than him simply from earning so much more, even though he pays a lower tax rate

I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about society in general. This pride shaming and low quality bait posting will not make an enamoured work force out of a weak enfeebled one, user. Try harder.

I'm canadian and we're basically strictly worse than america. bad pay, high immigration taking all our skilled jobs, and no comfy euro countries nearby to visit.

So, you do think that members of society in general don't want to improve because they have no intrinsic motivation to do so?

>top 1% income is not "high income"
are you legitimately retarded??

how can you not consider 79k high income when you even say yourself even in norway 46k is the median?? youre fucking delusional dude

that's pretty much obviously true for society at large, yeah. people work harder for rewards and it's autistic to think rewards aren't a primary motivator.

But then Norway has VATs, fees, additional taxes etc. Anyway, I'm just saying that you are making a lot of assumptions about what drives people. The Nordic countries have most productive workers in the world [1], despite workers enjoying the most slack and having loads of benefits and free time. Really makes you think what the US is doing wrong.

[1] economics.mit.edu/files/5726

I am suggesting that when you remove or mitigate the natural incentives to do so, you remove or mitigate the desire to do so. Do you really think that Joe working man would work the pipeline, bruising and scarring himself and enduring extreme weather conditions, if he came home with the same money he would make as a cashier? If that income gap was closed more and more every year?
You gotta be retarded to say yes.

Are Asians considered "protected" minority like blacks there? Because living in America sure as hell beats our around $500 wage per month.

>top 1%
Where the fuck did you get that figure from?

>79k
Uh, 700k NOK is 71k EUR.

>The Nordic countries have most productive workers in the world
conveniently, these always compares america as one entire country to small regions of europe instead of to comparable regions of america
if you compare europe's as a whole productivity to america as a whole it's abysmal

The median is actually increased to 510, but 700 is in no way "top 1%" wtf.

the opposite actually. leftists push agendas that hurt asians and want to oppress asians in society at large. the problem is that asians defy the stereotype that other minorities can't succeed due to racism. asians outearn whites now and leftists have started punishing them for doing too good.

It's funny how Americans always treat Europe as a single country when it's convenient for them.

The USA is also 20 times the size of fucking Norway, and responsible for international military expeditions at larger capacities than Norway's fucking continent, dipshit.

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I hope you realize the fallacy fallacy is also a logical fallacy and your argument is still shit.

Treating the EU as a whole is a fallacy though. Norway isn't even a part of EU, so there's that. Secondly, they have different constitutions and vastly different laws. Sure state laws in the US differ, and probably a lot sometimes, but they are all based on the same constitution and thus the same supreme court rulings.

if you think that's all that was said you've missed the point entirely. take a look at the productivity levels of new york or massachusetts. they're incredibly high.

also oil. look at norway's economy pre-oil. it was one of the poorest countries in the area.

>coping this hard
You got btfo for comparing an apple to a tree
Norway is still part of Europe, it is a small nation that doesn't require a large defense budget, or military effort, and the law has less to do with this comparison than you would like to believe, the US is WAY more rural and has larger amounts of population spread across much more diverse economies that are all relatively isolated as states. Norway is rich with resources relative to its size. A comparable chunk of the United states with relative resource to land and population ratio, and also having ocean access would be a more fair comparison.

That is what I am suggesting, that the comparison to USA as a whole is retarded. I am not nordtard. See

I earn €30k before taxes
€2k goes to social security from my salary, my employer pays €9k, so in total I'm paying €11k in social security.
€5k goes to income taxes.
So my employer has to pay €39k so I could earn €23k net income. (I end up getting 58% of what my employer paid for my job).
Then you add 21% VAT on almost every product.
Europe is only good if you are poor. Once you start making a bit of money, you are fucked in the ass.

Also, living in London the "free" healthcare has gotten so bad that buying private healthcare is now completely commonplace.

The only country comparable to the US by these standards is China though. Including Norway and Roumania would be akin to looking at both North and Central-America.

people from ukraine mostly and the local russians who are too stupid/uneducated to even learn another language

unless you compare america as a whole to europe as a whole. in which case europe does terribly. europeans want to pretend like the south and east doesn't exist when they compare high quality lifestyles to america as a whole.

>wonder what motivation he has to contribute to society or better himself?
user from the other thread here. I quit my higher paying web dev job to do an industry PhD instead and working with systems programming. I make less money now than I did straight out of graduate school. I mentioned this in the other thread, but I don't think I was so clear.

>unless you compare america as a whole
Do you mean the continent or the US? Because I'm pretty sure it wouldn't look very good if we included Honduras and Venezuela in the stats for "America"

Well fuck. No easy mode living because I'm part Asian minority then.

yea, these days many part asians identify as their other race as asians are now being punished for doing too good. if you google it you can find some reading. the harvard admissions thing is probably the biggest and most obvious one right now.

Exactly and in Canada it is just more of the same bullshit.
Then stop comparing yourself to the fucking USA you retard.
>There is no form of social polity that exists which can create a strong and enamoured workforce out of a weak and enfeebled one.
>Alexis De Tocqueville
Policy is never going to magically create strong workforces. The economy itself is the driving force behind this, and core cultural values after that.
When you nordics run out of oil and you're packed with somalians and Pakistanis, you will see just how strong your workforce is.

>Then stop comparing yourself to the fucking USA you retard.
If you read the link, it compares to a bunch of other nations and not the US only. You'd also be surprised to know that the US does it pretty well when it comes to worker productivity.

Read the link instead of sperging out, user. It's a good read.

Iam dutch can I get a greencard for US? Salaries are low here....

Well, why exactly is it that the EU has such shitty wages for high skill labor? The more specialized someone is, the more ridiculous is the gap in income when compared to the US.

The nordics have always been pietist though, their culture is permeated with the mindset that hard work is reward in itself. The US is different, because success even through fraud and/or shortcuts and loopholes is celebrated, while it is frowned upon greatly in the nordic countries.

Trips of truth

>software developer
>high skill labor
It's simple, the demand is not great enough to drive salaries up.

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Does it compare itself to small oil and metal rich nations that also have first world education and production? I doubt it, because few to none of these exist.

Then how come software devs in the US make so much more money?

Also it's not just software developers, nearly anything that pulls you into the higher percentiles of income will get you a shitload more money in the US.

And importing non nordics en masse is going to do wonders for that culture in a couple generations, I bet. If you value your culture then why promote radical immigration? Cause your link also hinges on the assumption that immigration and internationalism are among its defining virtues.

It's a myth that Norway is rich from oil. Very little of the oil money goes into the national budget, because that would lead to Dutch disease. Also, the other nordic countries (Denmark, Sweden and Finland) do not have oil. Iceland did really well too, until they adopted the American model of deregulating everything and then went bankrupt when the economy crashed in 2008.

The demand is higher, so software companies compete for talent.

See above.

>It's a myth that Norway is rich from oil
lol

...so Europe doesn't have high demand for anything that pays well? Sounds hard to believe.

>And importing non nordics en masse is going to do wonders for that culture in a couple generations
See below. But also, keep in mind that Jow Forums highly exaggerates. Non-European immigrants (1st to 3rd generation) still make out less than 9% of the population, and first generation immigrants (both European and non-European) make out less than 2%.

The US takes in more Syrian refugees yearly than Norway has taken in its entire history, just to get things in perspective.

>If you value your culture then why promote radical immigration?
I don't. No sane person do.

>Cause your link also hinges on the assumption that immigration and internationalism are among its defining virtues.
Uh, no. It doesn't. Also, internationalism is not the same as mass immigration, it means free movement of workers, not people.

But it does circulate in the economy getting taxed 50 times over as it changes hands. Tell me you're not this naive.

>It's a myth that Norway is rich from oil.
meanwhile in norway's economy

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>doesn't have a high demand for anything that pays well
Do you realise how retarded that sounds when I just fucking explained to you that demand is what drives salaries up? Low demand = low salaries. High demand = high salaries. Of course software developer salaries in Europe are going to be low when hordes of slavs from Ukraine are willing to program for two meals a day and a pat on the back.