/baot/ - *BSD And Other Things
Discuss FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonFly, FreeNAS, etc.
Chat: #baot @ irc.rizon.net
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netbsd.org
dragonflybsd.org
Why BSD?
sivers.org
over-yonder.net
Low effort replies to ignore:
>no drivers
>copyleft vs copyfree
>etc
Ask questions, get answers. (maybe)
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openbsd.org
openbsd.org
twitter.com
How do I install full-encrypted OpenBSD in a hard drive that has other ext4 partitions in it? The softraid method requires running "fdisk -iy sd0" which will wipe all of the partitions in the device. I've tried to install it without this step, but it failed to boot.
I tried installing OpenBSD about 6 months ago and as much as I liked the userland and and fact that everything worked out of the box on a x220: media keys, acpi and everything else. My biggest problem with the OS is the speed. I installed it on a new SSD without FDE and vim with syntax highlighting would lag, I won't even describe the browsing experience...
Did 6.1 help by any chance the memory speeds?
Is OpenBSD still considered more secure than the more secure Linux distros? It's been years since I looked into it.
Yes considering we keep seeing exploits that affect Linux users but OpenBSD inadvertently resolved the exploit before zero day. I think security is not the main reason to like OpenBSD. The fact it takes security so seriously should be standard. It is the simplicity that really keeps me with OpenBSD. Linux is still my pal though.
GRUB will have to support OpenBSD's FDE bootloader for this to work. Not sure if it does or not.
Vanilla Linux has almost no security mitigations. Linux with grsec rivals OpenBSD in terms of kernel security. OpenBSD has lots of cool userland stuff that's unique to it though. There's also wide adoption of pledge and unveil in OpenBSD, whereas seccomp use in Linux is minimal.
6.1? We're at 6.5 now. Many improvements since then, including in performance areas. Firefox (and probably Chrome) include a README file for some performance tweaks. You can also enable softdep and noatime on your fstab mounts for better IO speeds. I don't know about the vim issue. I use it without syntax highlighting because it looks kinda fruity to me...
Pledge was a HUGE innovation in security and OS research, only takes 1400 loc in the kernel, and in so simple to understand how it works!.
I don't understand how 2000 linux engineers can't figure out something similar and implement it.
OpenBSD guys are really pushing it!.
Guys I tried all the bsds (ghost, net, dragonfly, free) but openbsd seems the best bsd for desktop usage, and the least cucked OS there is. I only have one problem. When I boot OpenBSD from the usb stick, it gives me the error "make_pci_tag: bad request" and the kernel panics. I'm thinking of trying to burn the cd file onto a spare cd, but I'd like to know if any of you Jow Forumsays actually knoe how to fix this
>thinks OpenBSD is the best BSD flavor for desktop
>never installed it because he doesn't know how to
the state of Jow Forumss autism; also no, OpenBSD is not the best desktop BSD, I'd go as far as saying all BSDs are not desktop operating system.
OpenBSD's only strong point is the security but lacks any useful feature that could turn it into a daily driver. The main issue is IO speed which I'd say is essential on a desktop.
>hurrr you just don't know how to install it
>ur autist btw
jeez, thanks
I want to have tshirt like this but with logo on the chest center. Where can I get it?
>OpenBSD strong point is the security
lolno
Anything on google about that error? I'd suspect a bad download or bad dd/burn of the image. Make sure it matches the SHA256 file.
OpenBSD is the only BSD used on the desktop by its developers. FreeBSD is focused on file servers and their devs mostly use Macs. NetBSD and DFly might have a few desktop users, I don't know. OpenBSD has its own ACPI stack -- a sign that their devs are actually using this OS on laptops daily. Support for suspend and resume and other ACPI things is quite good and I use it as my daily driver.
If you just like Linux and don't want to use anything else, that's fine, but you don't need to spread lies about the other stuff.
What do you think about Dragonfly for desktop usage?
Go to the bottom:
openbsd.org
SELinux is mostly media access controls. It has nothing to do with exploit mitigations. Also developed by the NSA for what it's worth. Another point of practicality: how many distros use it by default? Not many outside of Redhat ones. GRSecurity is a great addition to Linux, but it's not very useful either since it's behind a paywall and limited only to company licenses.
OpenBSD has strong security throughout the OS *and development process* and there aren't a bunch of knobs to twiddle to turn things on or off. What you get is a very solid foundation on which to build your system, and one that makes buggy/malicious software very difficult to run.
Sane defaults are something I certainly wouldn't associate with SELinux...
FreeBSD is perfect for Desktop use. And the reason for that they prefer lowlatency kernel model by default comparing to "more throughput" Linux kernel. Just install GNOME(yes gnome because it's bloated and buggy enough to see difference) on FreeBSD and Linux distro and see the difference and how fluid it is on FreeBSD. Add to that FreeBSD has superiour lowlatency sound stack which delivers super audio quality. Reason for that is FreeBSD uses superior OSSv4 instead of ALSA and shitty PulseAudio that comes literally with every distro this days by default. I'm not the only one, you can find many discussions on the web how people thinks that OSS delivers better sound compared to ALSA. Once you listen music on FreeBSD you will never go back.
>250 line functions using 25 variables, a dozen function pointers ripped directily from .so's, and absolutely brimming with #ifdefs
no thanks
Nope, I searched the error everywhere, all I found is some old netbsd mailing list that doesn't have any fix.
>bad download or bad dd/burn image
I checked the file with sha256 and it matches
That's probably the best desktop BSD I've used on my machine. Pretty fast.
What browser do you use?
I hate jews.
Firefox
OpenBSD and 9front are the future of Jow Forums autism.
What the fuck is that what #baot stands for? Never realized that there was actually a topic. Thought it was just a random shitposting channel for the past two years or so.
Right.
Kek, Linux has had more sophisticated stuff for literally decades now.
>When I boot OpenBSD from the usb stick, it gives me the error "make_pci_tag: bad request" and the kernel panics
That's normal. This is a based(Tm) kernel panic due to the OS being no-bloat and having good man pages.
This thread is hilarious.
Everyone reporting having tried OpenBSD is mentioning super basic stuff (FDE or booting) being completely broken, but this doesn't deter the fanboys, who are probably running Windows anyway.
seccomp-bpf is a joke compared to pledge in terms of usability. You literally have to write a bytecode compiler (or use an existing one, e.g. libseccomp) just to filter syscalls.
Not to mention there's no way to know which specific syscalls the libraries you depend on use and how each architecture has different syscalls and each version of glibc uses different syscalls to implement the same functions.
Meanwhile on OpenBSD you just declare which classes of syscalls your program will make and you're done. It's vastly superior.
t. Linux user
It's not superior because it cannot possibly provide proper sandboxing, precisely because it only filters *classes* of syscalls. It's a bit better now with unveil, but it still misses the mark.
The reason the system is way more complex in Linux or FreeBSD is not because they're retarded and Theo de Raadt is a genius for coming up with a basic solution years later. It's because that's what it takes.
In which cases do you need syscall-level granularity to provide proper sandboxing?
And since you brought up unveil(2), you can't even do that in Linux without ugly hacks like spawning a non-sandboxed process and passing fds to the sandboxed process via SCM_RIGHTS since bpf filters literally can't dereference pointers.
In theory Linux's solution may be more powerful, but in practice it's much more difficult to use correctly and OpenBSD's solution covers most common use cases with a VASTLY simpler API.
That vastly superior API can be implemented easily on top of the Linux and FreeBSD APIs.
Yet they have not even bothered. Why do you think that's the case?
The whole OpenBSD philosophy is to write mitigations that they THINK will deter attacks, but none of those guys have any experience actually writing exploits, so they always come up with retarded stuff like randomizing some data structure and thinking they've made something useful. That might have helped against exploits from the 90s, but the world has moved on.
you are 100% right. gnome doesn't even stutter on freebsd while it chunks on linux. the audio was slightly better too. I won't stop using linux as my main OS but I am installing freebsd on a secondary hard drive. it's even better now since all my hardware is supported
>That vastly superior API can be implemented easily on top of the Linux and FreeBSD APIs.
Maybe on FreeBSD, but implementing pledge(2) on Linux would be an exercise in futility. Since the kernel and libc are maintained separately and since syscalls are different by architecture, you'd have to account for every arch+libc combination to get the syscall lists for each pledge group right.
As for why it's not done on FreeBSD, who knows? Does FreeBSD get any useful feature additions these days?
Strange question but I need to know if you can lpr print from firefox in openbsd. That ability was dropped in gtk3 so I wanted to see how OpenBSD has patched it. Can someone screendump the firefox print dialogue?
Void has SELinux and AppArmor. Not sure how good their defaults are though, at least it doesn't get in the way.
void doesnt have selinux? unless something has been pushed within the last 3 hours
It is enabled in the kernel. Might be a case of brainletism on my end though if something else it necessary for it to be properly working.
I think the two people arguing about pledge might be the same person because I've seen this exact conversation play out in previous threads,
Media access controls LOL
Mandatory Access Controls you dunce, it has everything to do with exploit mitigation, that is the whole point of MAC. Wow
i suspect they just build genkernel, which probably has it as default. they pass --without-selinux to openssh as a build option, and theres no package for SELinux in repos.
apparmor and firejail are available though
>those lips
Huh, I wonder why they would do that. Doesn't sound like it would be hard to rectiy? Again, I might be wrong here.
Just develop proprietary software for money, cucks. That's a straight statement - instead of doing work for free and telling yourself lies about freedom while supporting proprietary software without getting any money.
cuck system cuck license cuck community
To any genuine BSD advocates reading:
It is -better- if people like this stay in the Linux ecosystem. Don't try to convert them. The BSD ecosystem is -better- without this type of personality. Rallying behind factually wrong statements or "cuck license" is a bad look.
Leave them behind.
Openbsd is a meme
Your inept shilling against OpenBSD is one of the things which made me try it. Now it's my main OS.
Thanks! Too much shilling is really working against you butt fucking faggot kikes. It makes it extremely easy to sense what's threatening you. The shilling against OpenBSD is Internet-wide and all seems to follow the same script. It seems to be so pervasive that I have no doubt it's a state-level effort, probably some large country is threatened by people having access to a secure OS which isn't made by large defense contractors.
so nobody runs openbsd on the desktop?
Yeah tons of people do. Ask your question on the mailing list where I can dox you.
>tons of people do
Doubtful. maybe 3 OS hipsters.
How dumb can you be?
Dumb enough to try a hobbyist OS, i guess.
Your inept shilling against OpenBSD is one of the things which made me try it. Now it's my main OS.
Thanks! Too much shilling is really working against you butt fucking faggot kikes. It makes it extremely easy to sense what's threatening you. The shilling against OpenBSD is Internet-wide and all seems to follow the same script. It seems to be so pervasive that I have no doubt it's a state-level effort, probably some large country is threatened by people having access to a secure OS which isn't made by large defense contractors.
I was just kidding. I had BSD on my laptop last year but i was running Firefox-ESR that was still gtk2 based. gtk3 removed lpr/lpd printing capability so I just want to know if OBSD people patched it or if you need to install cups to print from gtk3 based software. Simple question, faggot responses.
The freebsd solution was to print to pdf then print that pdf.
>I was just kidding.
Nah, you weren't. One of your jobs is to take a dump in all the OpenBSD threads. I've been watching you with a classification program I made based on plagiarism software. I wanted to see how many shills were on this board. One neat thing is that soon I'll be able to correlate shill posting styles with Reddit and Twitter posts.
k, keep me posted. Will you be printing the results with lpd?
Nah I'll be contacting each party and extorting some BTC/ETH.
Just leave your boot partition unencrypted. It's hilarious to watch you trot this out in *EVERY* OpenBSD thread, have people point out a solution, and then the next day you do it again.
As Hitler said, gradually I began to hate them.
>Nah I'll be contacting each party
via USPS? you'd need to print that out.
Please don't send me a simple nroff form letter. I want something image graphs with nice colors. thanks.
>Linux with grsec rivals OpenBSD in terms of kernel security.
Hogwash. This might have been true a decade ago though.
BSD threads are only for shitting on BSD.
There is no actual discussion about the OS since nobody uses it.
BSD users don't bother with BSD threads anymore because Linux users can't handle the thought of someone using something that's not Linux.
>handle the thought of someone using something that's not Linux.
handle the idea of using an inferior OS that is slowly being forced to embrace freedesktop.org thus becoming more and more like gnu systems.
>handle the idea of using an inferior OS that is slowly being forced to embrace freedesktop.org thus becoming more and more like gnu systems.
Fake news
5 years time you'll be known as GNU/OBSD. all of your userland will be irrelevant and you will be forced into freedesktop.org'isms. screencap this.
Done
Meet me on longbets, I'll put $500 down saying you're wrong tonight. When I win the money will go to the NRA. Deal?
sure. I'm a lifetime member of the NRA so I win either way.
That's just the way it is.
it's already starting. You can't even print from gtk applications to your own LPD printing subsystem.
Maybe they went overboard with mitigation?
Proofs? Or did you push the wrong button?
>My guess is that lpr support is removed in GTK3. Firefox-ESR still has GTK2 support and this supports lpr. In GTK3 you need to use CUPS. Same thing with Qt4 > Qt5. I'm not happy with this development either.
Your days are numbered.
Pic related is from the freebsd.org forums.
What's wrong with CUPS?
it's not BSD's LPD for one.
Plus why does a print system need a webserver?
>why does a print system need a web server?
Is it for if you want to set up a print server?
On OpenBSD you can install nonfree drivers from ports to connect to HP printers. Blame HP for not providing their drivers for free. This is the world we live in. Burn down the house. I know this is not the best solution, but it is a solution nonetheless.
see: ulpt(4)
I've had print servers built around lpd for years and never needed a webserver to do it. So no.
that has nothing to do with printing from gtk based applications via lpr. It's not a driver issue retard. foomatic-rip filters is all you need.
Had to do one forced shutdown. Didn't start again after that. Linux, Windows and MacOS survive a forced shutdown, OpenBSD got nuked by it.
oops :( honestly I've never printed on linux or BSD in this day and age. My bad for just assuming I knew what ya'll were talking about and the solution.
So, what user wants to do is print from firefox (or any gtk based program)? i.e. print a boarding pass for a flight from a companies website?
At least in my instance. Is it common for OpenBSD to not handle a forced shutdown?
I've force-shutdown my x220 running OpenBSD many times -- can I ask what hardware you're using? I've found OpenBSD's filesystem cleaning to be helpful and I haven't had any file corruption yet. I treat this system like garbage and am just bruteforcing my way around its use.
yeah, you used to be able to go to file | print and you'd have an option for lpr (along with a input box for any command line options). That is gone; the workaround is to print to pdf then go to the command line and use lpr with the temporary pdf file that gtk shat out.
learn something new every day. Yeah, I can see how that'd be annoying. Would a script be able to solve this (print to pdf, lpr -p, rm %pdf%)? I suppose just saving to /tmp would solve this issue as well, but that comes with its own hassles (what if I want to keep this pdf rather than that pdf?) So many problems to solve and new ones keep coming up. No wonder so many programmers break and start wearing long socks wanting to be a little girl.
Why the fuck would you use that image OP? 6.5's artwork is a lot better.
I don't know if you are shilling or true, but OpenBSD works best on thinkpads. I have a x220 with OpenBSD 6.5 in it and i never had to brute force it (yet).
>5 years time you'll be known as GNU/OBSD
Anti-OpenBSD anons go all out i see. OpenBSD has a full BSD licensed base system, so it has no such problems. In addition, users of OpenBSD avoid freedesktop cancers so they will not miss them even if they can't install them.
So, to get on the same page:
you lost input control of your system, the computer shut down (or you made it shutdown since it was unresponsive) and when you went to boot it back up again, it didn't even go to `boot>_' ? Straight to UEFI BIOS? I've had this happen to me before and once I plug my computer back into the outlet or restart it, I am greeted with an OpenBSD system checking file blocks for cleanliness, handling bad blocks and then booting properly. I'm curious to know how your system just shit its pants and would not even go into a state where you could attempt a recovery or start fresh. What are you using the system for now?
I meant brute force as in "help I don't know what the fuck I'm doing so I'm just gonna go for it with what minimal knowledge I've found on irc and the internet." Not as in "I just let it die and hold the power button down all day and FUCK IT BITCH CORRUPT IT ALL"
The replies to this post are great. My main reason for using OpenBSD is not security, but simplicity and documentation. I can easily control my system with base system commands which are fully documented in man pages without needing to google anything.
So just print to a PDF and spool it to lpr? This is Mozilla fucking up and breaking things.
I mean Firefox printing on 9front and Temple OS has been broken for years too.
>openbsd users retarded as usual.
Hey try printing from firefox to BSD's LPD service, numbnuts. You can't. Enjoy your cups printing service with dbus faggot! haha
Listen user, in order to troubleshoot OpenBSD with minimal effort don't go on irc or google. Just look at the FAQs:
openbsd.org
9/10 answers are there.
>So just print to a PDF and spool it to lpr?
LOl, BSD users in a nutshell.
No thanks, if I have to install all the opendesktop shit to print from a dialog box i'll just stick with GNU/Linux.
This is the difference in philosophy between linux/windows users and OpenBSD users. The former need handholding to accomplish anything. The latter don't mind looking up the docs for a few minutes before doing it the OpenBSD way which in fact is simpler and faster.
I'd say today was the day that I finally learned how to properly use manpages to fix my own problems. Do you remember the one day things `clicked'? The manpages of OpenBSD are vastly superior to other Linux distros I've used -- I couldn't even figure out where to start in those ones. Maybe it's just that I've been using OpenBSD for a few months now and the illiteracy stage has gone away.
I admin that man pages seem difficult to someone who was raised by a windows like environment where everything is graphics. Until a noob reaches your level, i would suggest looking at the FAQs for troubleshooting.