Piracy

To determine if something is ethical, let's first say that an ethical thing is something ideally everyone would do. Like let's say "not stealing". Obviously it's possible for everyone to not steal so it doesn't violate that requirement. Let's see if copyright infringement - or piracy - holds up to the same scrutiny. Let's imagine two hypothetical worlds for our thought experiment.

World A: No one pirates. Companies make games and software with the incentive that people will buy it since no one pirates.

World B: Everyone pirates. Companies have no incentive to create games and software since they'll just get it pirated away from them. With no companies making things, there becomes nothing to pirate thus piracy is impossible.

World B is a paradoxical world where everyone pirates yet no one pirates. If piracy was a logically good thing to do then we could have everyone do said thing without creating a paradox. Therefore we must strive for World A if our ethics are to logically make any sense.

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The world would be a better place with less entertainment media.

>it's unethical to move zeros and ones

Really?

imagine not being on private trackers lmao

>Can you own various combinations of 0s and 1s? No, of course not.
As it turns out—yes, yes you can.

>it's ethical for companies to charge 300 dollars for image editing software and then take it away from you and force you to pay again or face legal repercussions
FUCK ADOBE

>it's unethical to move molecules
And stealing is unethical too

Free market, boi. Don't like it, don't buy it. But stop pretending piracy is any more ethical than stealing

>it's unethical to move data

There, I fixed that for you.
It's all about softwares, not hardwares. Stealing is like moving hardware.

how would you feel if I moved some zeroes and ones from your bank account to mine

You just moved data by loading this webpage. You move molecules every time you move your mouse. Obviously you can't describe theft nor copyright infringement in this way. Stop being purposely obtuse and admit stealing is wrong, and copyright infringement is wrong for reasons outlined here

Good argument, I admit it.
Actually, I'm on side on this one. I'd say a bunch of zeroes and ones can't be called "money" at all. Money is physical, while there's only data on bank accounts.

But games and movies are not money. They don't really have physical versions, only data containers, like dvds and bluray discs.

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>I'm on your side on this one

fixed, sorry

haha

Libertarians youtu.be/saWCZVggQAs

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Things aren't black and white user.

>Internet privacy is basically copyig data. Can you own various combinations of 0s and 1s? No, of course not.
This.
It's why I print counterfeit money, it's a victimless crime.

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Lol ok ask your government to change them instead of the free market. Either way doesn't matter. Piracy still bad.

Not an argument

Do you think it's impossible for people to do things with benevolent motives? Like writing software/games for people to enjoy/benefit for free (example: the GNU project)

If all the software and video companies disappeared, many open source projects would also disappear since 90% of the devs on most projects are employees working for some company that uses said project. Indeed, everyone pirating would be as drastically severe to the software world as everyone stealing would be to the physical goods world.

if thar be pirates causes no games why we gots so many damn games then, bucko? reality is not matching your mind simulations.

The two worlds are hypothetical for a thought experiment. Are you ESL?

you fail to compile all possible factors because you can't compute them all in your tiny brain.

>World B: Everyone pirates. Companies have no incentive to create games and software since they'll just get it pirated away from them.

World B would inevitably lead to World C: Everyone recognizes that development of new intellectual property is necessary and beneficial, so people voluntarily donate to workers who intend to produce intellectual property to be distributed freely to the masses.

World C already exists in miniature via Patreon and crowd funding. It would exist en masse if everyone pirated everything.

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>A 1979 East German court ruling found that software was "neither a scientific work nor a creative achievement" and ineligible for copyright protection.
Based commies

I'm pretty sure that downloading that song would put Shakira in a pinch. It's not like she donates millions of dollars to her own charities for the purposes of money laundering.
>Better jail the neet that shares the garbage she calls work.
Why is this even a discussion Jow Forums

If copyright violations we're theft, then you could suffer tort damages as well. But guess what, you can't. Because not even our fucked justice system considers IP as property but as monopoly rights granted by the state.

The world is for a thought experiment, dumb ass. It's to prove piracy is wrong. You're not even talking about piracy anymore you're talking about patreon. Stop lowering the average IQ of the thread.

Not an argument

Your hypothetical thought experiment is worth fuck all.

It proves piracy can't be ethical, so it's quite valuable

It does not. You think it does because, as someone else stated earlier, you're too retarded to account for all variables

It's a simple contract. A company trades games for money. The customer wants the game, the company wants the money. It developed the game for money. If the money will never come, the game wouldn't be made in the first place.

Loans wouldn't be made in the first place if no one ever paid them back. It's the same simple argument, why can't you wrap your tiny head around it, retard?

>hurr durr ur wrong cuz you forgot a variable!
>*never says what variable was forgotten*
lol wut? either tell us what variable changes his argument or shut up

in my hypothetical reality I am always right

This is what i mean. Your double digit IQ cannot grasp the scope of copyright laws which is why you think you've proved something beyond your own retardation
How about moral relativity? That alone makes the entire scenario a non-starter

>How about moral relativity? That alone makes the entire scenario a non-starter
lol so ur only argument against him is the same lazy "anything can be good! Raping and eating babies is good!" LMAO good job reddit

>strawman - the post
sorry you're a brainlet

well if ur only argument is literally "what about moral relativism" then I don't need to strawman to make you look retarded. maybe try actually putting an argument forward?

Why the FUCK are you talking about boats??? JESUS FUCKING CHRIST you must be the dumbest person ever.

>worthless parasite
That's what (((copyright holders))) are, retard.

Then why did you use one? Moral relativity is a great argument because his entire scenario rests on the assumption that there is universally agreed upon ethics which is obviously false

How about how he failed to account for libre software, rendering one of his outcomes invalid. There are lots of reasons why the scenario is completely retarded

>To determine if something is ethical, let's first say that an ethical thing is something ideally everyone would do.
fuck off immanuel

There's nothing wrong with downloading libre software, it's not piracy. Are you actually so retarded you forgot what piracy is?

Holy crap, do you have any reading comprehension at all?

firstly pirating does not cause people to stop making games for profit. secondly kys retard. your 'thought experiment" is a strawman.

>what is patreon, kickstarter, donations
If your stuff was actually valuable people would give you money for it even if they can get it for free. If it doesn't have value you have to FORCE governments into forcing people to give you money. Which is retarded.
Information is not property. Shared information is in public domain.

>what is patreon, kickstarter, donations
They're not piracy. In a world where everyone pirates, no one would buy your game partially or in full on patreon either.

See

>Theft removes the original
Your made up definition of theft won't save you in a court of law

yea the "pay to incentivize continued development" business model enforces meritocracy which is the enemy of some certain peoples

>copyright
>copyleft
Jow Forums-tier shit

>The world is for a thought experiment, dumb ass. It's to prove piracy is wrong. You're not even talking about piracy anymore you're talking about patreon. Stop lowering the average IQ of the thread.
you absolute fucking nigger, you are the blackest retard gorilla nigger in this thread

>people only do things to get paid
that's such a shallow mentality to have user

I'm sorry but that's why those companies that make your favorite games and movies exist. You stop paying them, they go bye bye

>people stop doing anything once their basic needs are met
oh noooo all my favourite cash cow lowest common denominator media won't be produced any more, truly a loss for society

>Moral relativity is a great argument because his entire scenario rests on the assumption that there is universally agreed upon ethics which is obviously false

True dude, that's why I say raping and eating babies is OK. There's no universally agreed upon ethics so why shouldn't it be?

so no crowdfunding is allowed in that universe? are you extending the scope of the original experiment conditions?

>Fuck these big companies
>But also I love what they make, let's download it
lol hypocrite

Let's take killing disabled people. Is it beneficial for society as a whole to have less disabled people who don't produce value and only consume scarce resources? Yes, it is. Is it an ethical thing to do? No, not really

or is it unethical not to purge dead weight?

>implying strawmen
jokes on you user, the best media comes from passion projects not corporate overlords

Crowd funding is literally people buying a product (before it's out). It's not piracy

user you clearly have no idea how to use the categorical imperative

>World B: Everyone pirates. Companies have no incentive to create games and software
nah
they'd wanna make it more efficient
solve a (new) problem that isn't being addressed
fix stuff
add a new feature

True dude, take Jow Forums for example. Oh wait, it's proprietary and money driven. Huh...

See

ah yes, Jow Forums, only improved and aged like fine wine in the past 15 years
can I have some of what you're smoking?

you are ignoring factors that break your model because you are a stupid brainlet.

>if I redefine ethics to fit my personal agenda and then argue from extremes while creating illogical axioms to suit my argument, I win!
Congratz, you've convinced no one and made yourself look like an idiot. People like you actually help to convince others that piracy isn't theft, so feel free to post some more.

nothing was stolen

thats what they will say when they copyright the human genome

>Can you own various combinations of 0s and 1s? No, of course not.
Actually I own the number 0101010001101000011001010010000001000111011000010110110101100101, I just let other people use it for free because I'm nice.

>I'm nice
You're not.

Piracy is the best thing to happen in decades, finally impoverished people and countries can educate themselves, entertain themselves. These people would never be able to afford these things without piracy. Piracy is the great equaliser, it's no surprise filthy rich animals who take pleasure in knowing they are richer than other people on the planet want to put a stop to it.

they are not really 0 and 1's you know

/thread

we should all work for free and be paid through patreon-like services

90% of the devs on most projects are employees working for some company that uses said project
That's a number pulled from your ass

companies are not obligated to be ethical and neither are individuals

This made me (a non-codeshitter) think:
Is it plausible for a compiler to optimize differently implemented functions and output identical machine code?
If the compiler output were the same then you couldn't effectively "own" any piece of code written.

Do you honestly disagree with the requirement? You truly believe that some actions are ethical to do by some people but if everyone did them then suddenly they would become unethical?

I currently work on opensource software at a company. Probably closer to 99% of upstream devs I interact with are from other large companies

>we should all work for free and be paid through patreon-like services
yeah
it probably won't work out for everyone though

This is silly. The market would adapt to making content that is pointless to pirate. The new thing in video games now is to stream games directly from a server. Sure I can pirate psp, vita, 3ds and play the games offline and even connect to online servers etc but once game loading becomes server side only pirating would be a non issue. Log in only subscription based gaming. Sounds cancerous but the normies will eat it up

Paying to play a game being hosted on a company's computer isn't piracy, therefore doesn't change my argument that "piracy is unethical because universalization of piracy creates a paradox"

The entire concept is in direct violation of the freedoms the first amendment stands for. What ever happened to trade secrets?

we all know what the problem really is in somalia.

Copyright is a spook

>talks about free market but believes digital goods have any value
top kek
get off my property, kid

it could have value
based on what ever the traders agree on

Is it stealing if one of the trader says (rightfully so) it has no value?