Companies do not release budgeting and spending information. For all we know, it might cost $50 to engineer and produce a $500 CPU.
>b-b-but R&D
Automated process, AI optimises component placements and other.
Modern hardware engineering has reached a complete plateau. Throughout the XX century, we went from a simple procedural SISD to speculative and conveyor SIMD and embedded coprocessors.
Nowadays we have the same but with extra MB cache and core per year.
Simple, don't upgrade your damn computers every year or two and always buy used.
We can't go on like that forever. I only assume 80s engineers today would make string-oriented coprocessors to make interpreted languages and text editing instantaneous. Just an example.
But today's engineers are too busy slapping backwards compatibility bloat inside.
We already know Intel markup their shitty CPU
>microprocessor prices are completely fabricated
Of course they are. Do you mean arbitrary?
Your only point is that we can't totally prove the manufacture cost of processors. Did this really warrant a thread retard?
TSMC does more R&D than AMD
that's where your money goes
Yes, how fucking headfucked are you to be okay with this? Tomorrow a 6c CPU can cost $500 and what???
>companies can charge what they like for their products
>customers can pay it or not buy the products
Oh no?
Stupid american way of thinking. Then you wonder why the oh so evil EU blasts you with antitrust cases.
btw you can look at their total margins if you're curious
these companies aren't sitting on piles of money they spend it on something
is this the new excuse intelaviv fans will spam from now on? that cpus are too expensive and nobody should buy them?
Remember when Intel were charging a grand for 8 cores and AMD launched one at $350?
>make product
>sell it to whatever price I want
>people either buy it, make cheaper variants or tell me to fuck off
Why are you euros so incredibly weak? You suck commie and government cock like there's no tomorrow.
TSMC spends 9 billion dollars on a factory and Nvidia spends 3 billion dollars on a GPU architecture.
Our markets are well priced. Do you know how many kilograms of high quality vegetables I can buy for 10 euros?
Typical American, a consumer who thinks like an executive. It is in your favour to know exactly how much a product really costs and whether they are bullshitting you. Without such information, it's guesswork.
Hmm, I guess the newest xeon platinum titanium supergold costs $20: $5 in raw materials (sand, copper, nickel), $5 packaging, and $10 shipment. Prove me wrong.
Yeah I remember when a good phenom beat a mediocre FX.
You're thinking a bit too far back.
Well? What we have now:
>a modern athlon weaker than a modern pentium (weaker than a last-gen i3)
>iGPUs that need 5GHz RAM to be viable
>wasted silicon on ME/PSP/etc and x86 backwards compatibility
Your markets are bullshit because they are regulated to avoid dumping prices. In fact if you would allow beef and vegetables from US and Argentina, all your farmers would commit suicide overnight. Also don't forget that you literally throw away milk when you've too much, so your farmers can keep the prices up and high.
What imaginary country are you talking about exactly? Have you ever been to eastern europe?
Duh? Are you fucking retarded?
They price them so they can make a profit. If you don't like it, make your own you fucking commie.
>make a profit*
*make maximum profit
They are the largest tech company, they can afford to make quality AND well-priced products.
profit? lol can you point out their margins>? that's what OP is sperging out for i think
>always buy used
this. I haven't bought a brand new GPU, CPU, or RAM in ~ 10 years, no reason to.
I buy new motherboards & storage devices many times, though.
Considering that amd have barely turned any profits even with ryzen, i don't think that ryzen's price is fabricated. Intel has 60% margins though.
AMD is still paying off debt from years ago with the ryzen money.
Their income is not that big. The debt payments are operating expenses, but even with it being lower their profits still would've been pretty damn low.
Market determined prices are the only fair way to manage scarcity.
If you don't like it move to a country with socialized semiconductor manufacturing,
USA gov't forces our farmers to not grow competitive amounts of product and to not sell at the competitive price they're capable of. We pay our farmers off, to not do their best, so it doesn't cause problems for other countries.
So yes that user is 100% correct, and you in fact have no idea what you're talking about.
TSMC spent $20 billion on their recent 3nm factory.
Think of the famine during a war if all the local farmers were driven out of the market and your supply mines were cut by submarines.
Jow Forums just proved it understands naught of economy.
Teenagers with an opinion, and an Internet access, that's all you are.
What a load of bull.
there was some doco on youtube years ago about iPhones only costing about $30 to produce. and yet the top models are around $1000.
It's highly possible that CPUs, etc are only worth $10-50 max to produce
When wafers are made, there will be a lot of errors on them. So if you paid 100k to make one, you will only have about 80k worth that is usable. They have to recoup that loss and also turn a profit. It's why amd decided to go with chiplets. They aren't popular enough to charge insane markups on their cpu like intel can.
Then go make your own cpu if you want to see how cheap it is.
That's the price of a single device when you have a factory that pumps out millions of them. If you were to make only a single phone from the scratch, it'd cost millions. It's absolutely retarded to think of the manufacturing costs of a single unit when you need to invest millions and millions to establish the manufacturing first.
itt: retards incorrect one another about price making
>ITT:
>my google skills and 1st year university econ course makes me the smartest person on this board
I'm from Eastern Europe and the EU literally pays some farmers not to produce shit.
As for the Xeon costing $20, you need to include the money that went into research, equipment, wages, marketing, logistics and so on. Though, of course, Intel is abusing their position for higher margins.
You don't really think the U.S. doesn't have anti-dumping laws/tariffs (even before Trump)?
As for food prices, low is not necessarily in your best interest. Some producers would exit the market (which would in turn reduce food security), quality would generally go down.
If I get a phone that lasts 4 years, instead of 6, whatever. But I'd rather have high quality food, which doesn't reduce my lifespan.
>As for food prices, low is not necessarily in your best interest.
Low prices also doesn't necessarily mean bad quality.
Fundamentals are important to know. It prevents stupid threads like this in the first place.
>my contrarianism makes me very smart
OP could just be...you know....lying for fun.
Yeah champ I'm not in college because I graduated a long time ago, don't give a fuck about your smug cunt opinions. There are people on the internet who have been working in the real world longer than you've been alive.
You don't know much of anything, let alone everything.
Wanna know what happens if you undersell your stuff? It gets scalped. People buy it in bulk from you for cheap and resell at a markup. The customer never got your cheap stuff and you never got your money in full.
What if the CPUs and GPUs were used at 100% load the whole time they were used? The heat damages them and will make them die quicker. And then if it dies you have no warranty.
Only materials, like raw metals, silicon and so on.
That's not wrong actually.
Hence why I wrote
>quality would generally go down
>generally
Ideally, producers would just get super efficient, realistically they'd probably cut corners with pesticides and who knows what other shit
>projecting this much on random strangers on the internet
>if you would allow beef and vegetables from US
Your food is not even rated for animal consumption here. Why would be import it?
>lying, for fun
Don't act uppity, yuropoor. We could literally crush you with a flick, but we need you vermins to buy our newest crap. You're getting shit fed by your government already. Last time I went to Europe and got the shits because I ate some Sauerkraut and sausage in Germany. This never happend to me in the USA and I've been to some nasty burger places.
>Company spends billions on R&D
>Makes a chip that costs $50 to make
>Charges $250 to recover sunk cost of production
>Some poorfag on Jow Forums gets upset that the product costs more than the raw materials
Well see, Mr. Faggot, if it's so cheap to make then why don't you go to the beach and get some sand, and then buy some copper wire and make one yourself?
It's pretty hard to kill CPU. It's probably the last thing to die really. Mobos usually die first and by the time they're dead it's usually more reasonable (and pretty often cheaper) to change the whole platform altogether.
Why do you think that Nvidia sell so many gpu variants? To release the same shit 2 years later at a slightly lower price.
>Last time I went to Europe and got the shits because I ate some Sauerkraut and sausage in Germany
This is called traveler's diarrhea, affects people with weaker immune systems. Europe is usually a low risk area for US people.
Processors are made by publicly traded companies. You can look up their profit margin easily
Usually it's from drinking the local water, and not from eating cooked food.
CPU never dies, idk what the fuck you did if you've ever killed one. I have never seen one die. no matter the abuse.
GPUs die because they are ram+cores+board+fans, nothing to do with running 100%
Price is a subjective value, not the sum of materials and works necessary to build a product.
It's not a market determined price. It's either "Buy this $500 CPU that cost $5 to make or FUCK OFF". It's a destructive practice.
>you need to include the money that went into research, equipment, wages, marketing, logistics and so on.
Unpublished information, can assume it's $0.
Ok, but that's irrational
It's irrational not to publish something as simple as budgeting and financial goals. What are they hiding?
Bro the money game is fixed and ruined. We need a hard reset
>What could a multibillion dollar company with proprietary fabrication techniques be hiding from competitors?
Sometimes I wish all boards could display flags..
>muh competitors
So AMD releases it as well big deal? What's the worst that can happen? Nothing.
>oyyyyy our enemies (aka consumers) will notice how we're butt fucking them
This thread smells of communism.
Well do something about it then
Competitors don't exist
So I can just buy any used cpu from ebay? What if some pins are dud/burnt/broken and the images don't exactly show it?
>t.bootlicker
You're just as bad as the commies you kike-lover.
>I am a consumer speaking as an expert on how corporations should handle the distribution of financial information to the public
Ok bud
>Well do something about it then
I already encouraged all my friends to buy second hand when possible and am doing it online too. That's all I can do - petitions are out of the question.
competitors don't exist because there's a huge financial and time-based barrier of entry, not to mention that many techniques for manufacturing consistent chips are very secret. Despite these obvious sunk costs which prevent a large amount of competition, OP has the nerve to suggest chips should cost roughly as much as their raw materials.
Yes I'm an expert, these corporations are entirely supported by consumer cash.
Oh, so they don't have any private investors at all?
Investment is just that - investment. In and out. Consumer cash is one way.
>consumerist pig complains why price isn't cheaper
You don't need that $500 CPU when the $50 one will do.
>need for work
Then pay.
>inb4 gayming
Kys.
So a consumer sees no returns for their investment in a processor? It's not all about liquid cash. A processor in your computer may enable you to get/perform a job for a higher salary than one without a computer. You may have a better quality of life.
>bootlicker calling other people consumerists
imagine being as deluded as a mentally ill tranny
Indeed I see no returns. 5-10% IPC increases per year is fucking pathetic and a pit on consumers faces.
What, I can get a used dell with 2600k or a new and amazing dual core pentium. Whoa.
You don't have to buy new, nobody is forcing you. If you can justify the cost of a new processor for the returns you'll get from it, then it's rational to purchase one. If you can get by with an old used Thinkpad, buy that one. Why are you acting like your hands are tied?
Have you ever considered the fact that the main problem is these kikes stagnating tecnological progress for the purpose of profit?
THIS.
I'd rather buy new and interesting technology. CPUs with string-wise SIMD, AI coprocessors, 128, 256, 512 bit int and float registers, 64 general purpose registers etc
Why? Because it will benefit you in some way? Does the benefit justify the cost? Ok, then you have your answer of whether or not you should buy.
This is a real concern, and is probably the reason why flash prices have gone down dramatically just as Samsung got investigated for price fixing. Happened when all companies stopped trying to expand storage and instead started raising prices.
Would actual, provable and quantifiable progress in technology that justifies the cost benefit me? Yes.
I would actually shell out money for a CPU with embedded python 2.7 interpreter. Imagine what we could have today. Imagine if instead of shitty dime a dozen SSDs, intel made PCI-e processors whose entire job it is to optimise and predict program code realtime. Imagine instead of compiling C++ code on gentoo like a fucking tosser, the addon card does optimisational profiling and JIT.
Fuck! We could be living in such a future.
Instead we get crap software and entire professions based around integrating SIMD into code and solving parallelisation hazards. Fuck me.
Use your head?
You get a full discount. Amazon, ebay, newegg, etc are fucking brutal and biased towards buyers.
lol I mean refund
>Food isn't rated for animal consumption
>Don't act uppity, yuropoor.
Dude. Your foods literal poison.
And the only reason it's cheap is because your government heavily subsidises it.
You have no legs to stand on. That's if you can even stand. Lol
nigga your mom is fabricated
Intel and Nvidia are >60% gross margin. Nvidia is particularly impressive because they're fabless and must be paying more than intel to make their parts because of TSMC's mark up
>buy some shit and have it shipped to you
>it's useless
>ship it back to ebay with your own money
>but atleast you get back the money you spent on it
t-t-thanks
Literally bitch a bit to ebay and act like technology intimidates you. Insta refund. Returning items is for warranty service.
>this burger thinks burgerland is best
Fucking luddites ITT
>>b-b-but R&D
>Automated process, AI optimises component placements and other.
That's not what R&D is, you fucking retard.
I've never gotten a dud, I've made ~70 servers for companies using Used RAM and used CPU. both last forever. Other shit is what breaks.