When will High Dynamic Range FINALLY come to audio (again)?

the problem is not compression but that music in general sucks today, so it sicks out more i.e radio

never

they need loud music to catch the attention of normie retards with 5 second attention spans

?why there is only a limited amount of hertz you can hear, this the same reason vinyl is a meme, that and the fact that a needle can never be as precise as digital.

meh

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Most modern edm plays with dynamics though?
They just use compression effectively.

>When will High Dynamic Range FINALLY come to audio (again)?
when everyone switches to compression tweeters

Link me one of these fabled modern edm songs.

Any albums you guys like but never came to CD?
What out of print CDs do you own?

not him but here's something

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Nope.

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Analyzed folder: Test
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Title [codec]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR4 -0.00 dB -8.41 dB 3:39 Amon Tobin - On a Hilltop Sat the Moon-bjI36TzAQrw.m4a
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of files: 1
Official DR value: DR4

Sampling rate: 44100 Hz
Average bitrate: 127 kbs
Bits per sample: 16 bit

Dr14 T.meter 1.96.0
==============================================================================================

It's the same waveform if you don't believe me. The eyetest isn't always accurate.

Attached: 2019-06-10-220149_grim.jpg (3812x586, 485K)

Here is something with high DR.

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Analyzed: Control and Resistance / Artist: Watchtower
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DR Peak RMS Duration Title [codec]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR13 -0.00 dB -14.97 dB 4:05 01 - Instruments of Random Murder [flac]
DR14 -0.01 dB -15.87 dB 3:16 02 - The Eldritch [flac]
DR12 -0.04 dB -14.55 dB 5:46 03 - Mayday in Kiev [flac]
DR13 -0.00 dB -14.99 dB 8:00 04 - The Fall of Reason [flac]
DR13 -1.95 dB -17.26 dB 6:57 05 - Control and Resistance [flac]
DR15 -2.55 dB -18.32 dB 3:50 06 - Hidden Instincts [flac]
DR14 -1.38 dB -18.14 dB 6:46 07 - Life Cycles [flac]
DR13 -1.77 dB -17.49 dB 4:21 08 - Dangerous Toy [flac]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of files: 8
Official DR value: DR13

Sampling rate: 44100 Hz
Average bitrate: 910 kbs
Bits per sample: 16 bit

Dr14 T.meter 1.96.0
==============================================================================================

Attached: 2019-06-10-220449_grim.jpg (3822x598, 672K)

Aphex's new stuff.

For youtube i gotta compress my audio im sorry.

You know you can have both with proper track gain application, right?

Aphex Twin? I just picked a random song which is a no.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed folder: Test
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Title [codec]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR3 -0.00 dB -4.39 dB 5:17 Aphex Twin - T69 Collapse-SqayDnQ2wmw.m4a
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of files: 1
Official DR value: DR3

Sampling rate: 44100 Hz
Average bitrate: 125 kbs
Bits per sample: 16 bit

Dr14 T.meter 1.96.0
==============================================================================================

i listened to pet shop boys 1st abum and then their latest stuff, its so much louder, but its certainly bassier as well

I don't care if your youtube audio is crap. Anyone that uses youtube for anything besides sampling is a retard anyway. As long as the proper master on CD/bandcamp/whatever isn't fucked.

Just listen to classical.

That data is meaningless.
Listen to it. See what he does with compression.

It is choppier than his older stuff, that is that the high db and low db parts have a large db spread.

>RMS is meaningless
Having a really quiet part for a couple of seconds before blasting it really loud isn't dynamics nimwit.

Aphex Twin is not fucking EDM.

is remain in light supposed to look like this

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no i make videos, i have to compress my audio. my tests show it gets more views

Looks like a relatively decent waveform. You can see that it has quite a bit of variation and it's not just all compressed to nothing.

Simple answer: NEVER.

It's not just about being compressed or limited, it's about maxing out the fucking levels unfortunately and that not only destroys the dynamics obviously but also the general quality of the sound overall.

If you want dynamics and - even better - wider frequency response, look for your favorite audio content on vinyl rips, seriously. I kinda gave up on a lot of stuff that's on CD or released digitally anymore. Even the "hi res" (snake oil, yes) files available from HDTracks and other places have been usually remixed to max out the volumes and it just fucking sucks.

But if you find really well done vinyl rips like those by PHTHAL, Dr Robert, and some others, you'll get the audio you love with those original dynamics back and it becomes enjoyable to listen to once more.

Sure, not every album is on vinyl anymore, most especially newer releases, but for those that are, it's a good thing when you can find 'em.

Not every vinyl rip is worthy, of course, and while most of them are done with 24-bit 96 kHz encoding rates (anything higher is just fucking stupid, plain and simple) the increased file sizes (FLAC or go the fuck home, seriously) make them worth collecting because vinyl has a frequency response that can reach into the 80 kHz range - no we can't hear that high but it's still better than some compressed limited shit, seriously.

Oh audio in videos pretty much doesn't matter at all. Do whatever you want.

>look for your favorite audio content on vinyl rips
Wrong. This is another myth. Vinyl is just as compressed since most of the time it's exactly from the same master. What you want to look for are rips from old CDs (80s and early to mid 90s). This is before the industry started compressing everything and albums produced then generally sound great.

It is when you do it effectively.

Yes, we're all aware of this, but the kind of vinyl rips I'm referring to - the HIGH QUALITY ONES DONE RIGHT - are by people that not only know what the fuck they're doing but they're using source vinyl albums from those time periods, and a lot of those people are getting info from the producers and engineers that helped create them in the first fucking place so everyone can know which ones are the proper ones (which label/product/release/etc) and which ones are to be avoided like the fucking plague.

The Steve Hoffman forums are the place for this kind of info:

forums.stevehoffman.tv/

"Compressed vinyl" - that's only accurate when the vinyl is actually pressed at the fab plant, you know.

>idiots, every last one of you

>unironically listing Steve Hoffman
Go drown in your snake oil retard. Vinyl is garbage and you should feel bad.

Wait I was listening to that album earlier, what's wrong with it. Are you really going to tell me it sounds better than that shitty trend from the 80s and 90s where mids didn't exist

>Aphex Twin
>EDM
w e w

I didn't know we were talking about mainstream electronic trash and not all music.

Based Amon Tobin fan.

Death Magnetic is produced like garbage in almost every way imaginable (no dynamics, dry guitar tone, no bass, bad mix, etc.). There's some later versions of it that are less embarrassing (i.e. less compressed) and I would imagine you were listening to one of those but everything else about the production is bad.

>Are you really going to tell me it sounds better than that shitty trend from the 80s and 90s where mids didn't exist
Are you really going to tell me that Death Magnetic is better produced than Ride the Lightning? No one believes this right?

And yet vinyl is superior, go figure.

There's more to dynamics than just "really quiet" and "really soft." What modern mastering does is completely take out any of the natural variations that occurs during play. When you hit the snare drum it's supposed to pop out a bit. When you strum a guitar string, it does stick up in the mix a bit. This is normal and this sounds good and natural. Compression eliminates all of that and makes everything a big blob. Admittedly, I know zilch about electronic music so it could be argued that perhaps this kind of stuff doesn't matter. I doubt very early electronic music was limited in dynamics though.

You're out of your mind if you're going to tell me something like Piece of Mind sounds better than Final Frontier. Sure the newer one is "louder" but the quality of the recordings has also gone up alongside it.

Vinyl is objectively inferior.

When will loudness wars stop?

when we all stop yelling at each other

Iron Maiden never had poorly recorded albums ever. Even the self-titled debut is quite good.

>What modern mastering does is completely take out any of the natural variations that occurs during play
And the best producers have NO natural variations, as they literally are pushing compression to new boundaries ever since electro house.
Modern EDM literally plays with compression to the point where it is an instrument.
Bands are now dabbling with this on their guitar/bass/drum set up now, and it's probably the first time rock music has broken new ground in decades.

No, it's not, but your obvious attempt at discourse is, most certainly.

Piece of Mind sounds like crap. I don't know what they changed or did differently but it sounds like the band recorded the playback from a telephone.

>Bands are now dabbling with this on their guitar/bass/drum set up now
>now
It's been this way for like 2 decades now. There's nothing innovated about it.

Wrong, you're probably one of those fucking retards who thinks deadmau5 and Pendulum are representative of all electronic artists. There's a lot of downtempo electronica with a lot of dynamic range.
>Compression eliminates all of that and makes everything a big blob.
Also wrong.

You probably just don't like the mix. It's recorded well though.

Give me an example.

Tame Impala did something odd with it. Everyone noticed there was something with innerspeaker yet no one has quite worked out what it is.
I think there was something odd with the compression post production as that crackle is just unreproducible naturally.
There are bands compressing and clipping their natural amp distorted sound and adding reverb before it reaches any distortion part of the pedal chain.

I think people got this idea from EDM's compression techniques.

>worst of both worlds

>There are bands compressing and clipping their natural amp distorted sound and adding reverb before it reaches any distortion part of the pedal chain.
I will be shocked if noise rock bands haven't done stuff like this for decades now.

What song are you talking about exactly that has this mystical compression quality?

asa, idenline, Mapps, Tontario, Hijmer and Kozoro to name a few artists, basically anyone who evolved their style from the liquid scene. Sausaging the fuck out of your signal works in genres like house and trance where you're supposed to have a full spectrum, but for downtempo genres like liquid and "chill" only moderate amounts of compression are used, and there's a lot more dynamic range.

Adding reverb to the chain before you hit distortion effects, and then once again afterwards is fairly common in trance.

Vinyl has other problems that make everything sound like total shit. Anytime anybody hits a high note, the constant crackling, and anything near the center of the disc is gonna be trash.

This is true. I'd also like to point out generally most producers max their levels right in the mix these days before it hits master or someone remixes it. Listening to a vinyl recording isn't going to make fuck all difference.

>Just turn up the volume retard

What the fuck are you talking about. Kys

Why is it good for the volume not to be even?

Imagine sitting at a piano and HAMMERING every note in with your full force, each and every note, the whole song, the same 100% force.
The volume of every part of a sound has a really important meaning that gets more and more ironed out. You could say it's also a big part of the "soul" of a song.

On top of that, it gets really tiring really quick and if you go all out and listen to tracks produced in that overcompressed way for hours and quite loud, you can even damage your hearing quicker because there are no parts where you can rest a bit and it's blasting your ears non stop.

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Oh yeah, explain the superiority of the needle on a physical object users to produce sound. I'm sure that doesn't degrade the vinyl over time and cause crackling, no, that never happens.

If you’re looking to buy a CD, check this site out before you do:

dr.loudness-war.info/

It has many tens of thousands of albums listed (different issues of the same albums as well) and you can decide which one has the best dynamic range. Dire Straits’ Brothers In Arms has some shitty ass and great releases.

>Imagine sitting at a piano and HAMMERING every note in with your full force
Wouldn't "playing every note with the same force" be a better analogy? "HAMMERING with your full force" seems a bit disingenuous.

Dynamics are a crucial part of music. Compression robs it of its importance.

To be somewhat fair, recordings tend to be compressed then normalized, in an attempt to make it as loud as possible. A lot normalfags tend to think louder = better, so I can see why that user is stressing the "hammering" part.

Vinyl is ass. This is a fact. But so are most DACs. The best DACs for playing CDs stopped being manufactured over twenty five years ago. Now every DAC is a shitty bitstream model, meant to cope with a large variety of bit rates and sample depths. There isn’t a proper R2R DAC on the market excluding some DIY projects.

If you’re not listening to your 16 bit, 44.1 KHz music on a Philips TDA1540 or TDA1541, you aren’t hearing it properly.

Yes this applies to the high end DACs costing thousands of dollars, too. They’re trash.

DACs make basically no difference. They have distortion of like 0.000000000001% or something ridiculous like that. All that matters now is the quality of the files and the quality of the speakers.

Caveat: DACs can be effected by electronic noise from other things operating near them. So basically just get an ODAC and place it away from your electronics and you're good.

>Vinyl is ass.
It depends. As a medium it's obviously inferior to digital, but there are cases where it's preferred nonetheless due to mastering decisions of present issues and/or deterioration of the master tape.

It's subjective to specific genres. In contemporary house (and its sub-genres) it's common to try and keep the overall mix as close to digital 0db as possible, it provides consistency to the mix and makes it easier for DJs to work with.

Low dynamic range isn't about hammering a piano at maximum velocity. Lower velocity layers of a piano can be incredibly quiet, and when preceded by louder sounds or when played back beside louder sounds they can be drowned out in a mix very easily. This is where compression comes in, it will raise the volume of the lower velocity notes in accordance to a specific ratio and threshold, allowing those notes to actually be heard in a mix. This is especially useful when you're using those lower velocity notes in a melodic structure, which won't have a chance of punching through a harmony and percussion if the volume levels aren't raised enough.

Obviously, compression naturally reduces the overall dynamic range of a track, but it's not a bad thing, and has in fact made a lot of different instrumental arrangements possible. The current "lo-fi" hip-hop music a lot of people have come to like is a great example of a genre that wouldn't sound at all the same without compression. You wouldn't be able to have the nice, smooth melodies punch through the mix without it, you'd have to instead reduce the volume of every other instrument in the track to compensate, which most listeners aren't a fan of.

This is the correct opinion.

>seems a bit disingenuous.
You can call it what you want, you completely understood what I meant. It's almost 9am and didn't sleep

See
Velocity !== dynamic range.

>Low dynamic range isn't about hammering a piano at maximum velocity. Lower velocity layers of a piano can be incredibly quiet, and when preceded by louder sounds or when played back beside louder sounds they can be drowned out in a mix very easily.
Piano concerti don't seem to have an issue.

Re enforcing never.

Loudness wars will be forever, also all radio stations including classical run audio compressor as part of broadcast chain.

Get an antique record player, and go find some vinyl that rotate at 78.

This is the most dynamic audio you ll find.

Oh, then process at high bit rate to rove. Clicks etc.

Then enjoy.

Sorry to disappoint you with the cold hard truth.

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What Is mic placement
What is competent audio and recording engineering.

Thank that.

>but it's not a bad thing
Of course it isn't but it becomes a bad thing when everything just gets ironed out like it's the case with the majority of music produced in like the last two decades.
There's nothing wrong with compression itself and yes, it is important, especially to shape sounds or give direction etc. Just not fucking remove the all dynamics.

This. 80s Japanese and German CDs are the best

Confirmed child, different DACs produce different sounds and this wasn’t even controversial 40 years ago. You can measure the differences in waveforms and people have been doing this for decades as well.

Philips TDA1540/1 or bust, kiddo. There’s a reason why manufacturers making $30k high end audiophile CD players have been hoarding them.

Under lab controlled settings you’re right, it can be useful to reconstruct an album or parts of an album if the master has been lost or damaged.

In any orchestral composition very careful attention is payed to both the structure and placement of instruments in relation to each other to allow the listener to discern individual sounds. Name 1 (one) example of an orchestral mix that doesn't have other instruments reduce their velocity in order to compensate for a melody also being reduced in velocity.

The best are original silver centers made in Holland actually.

Wrong. Vinyl is mastered differently to CD.

That said, the quality of the press also comes into it.

Generally 70s and earlier, material dependant, will have the highest dynamic range.

...

Cds are mastered with dithering in mind. They are mastered to avoid dithering, and mastered louder and compressed more due to, dithering.

No, DACs really don't make an audible difference anymore.

They absolutely do for playback.

They most certainly do, and it can and has often been measured. Your modern DAC is bitstream trash made to convert as many sample rates and bit depths as possible.

Sorry, those are the facts. Do a little reading on the subject and find out for yourself. But I can easily hear the difference as can most anybody with decent speakers or headphones.

Speakers make more of a difference to be brutally honest and imbue more colouration than DACs so.. Think over your chain, because majority of colouration is speaker cone and not DAC.

You’re walking back now. Good. But best to just walk back all the way and apologize for being a child.

DACs still make a difference, try plugging an expensive pair of headphones into your a onboard MOBO DAC and then into an external DAC that's more expensive, there is a very clear difference in playback quality.