Slowpoke here, this is absolutely insane. Never would I have imagined that after Zen1 did a miracle putting so many cores on the mainstream we would have a doubling of cores on that very same platform with its next true iteration. The fuckers at AMD really were thinking Intel would have 10-12core 10nm desktop chips at this point, weren't they? How can Intel possibly fight back when their fabs are still fucked and they have nothing substantial on their roadmap? The immediate thing I can think of is to go the hilarious Xeon route and glue together two 9900ks into one huge slab of a package with a new socket to compete, but to what extent? What of their margins? How can they even price that so that people would choose that abortion over a 16 core that can work in a motherboard users bought 2 years ago?
Zen 2 and the state of Intel
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They did their job, and yes maybe the were afraid that Intel was gonna accomplish their roadmap, instead they got caught with their pants down, they have tons of money tho so they can take the more time to fix all the shit that they got going on right now, plus they already hired the Jew Killer, so the next level shit from them might be very good. I am glad AMD made them wake up so the CPU industry can reach higher levels of performance and innovation.
They hired Keller, yes, but it's going to take some time until he spreads his infinite seed all over Intel's CPUs. We're talking 5 years from when he joined so like 2023; last I heard was that he's in the SoC side of things.
Keller might fuck up for once.
Intel has reserves and aces up their sleeve so let AMD have the 5 years of dominance henceforth in exchange for the near 2 decades that Intel went unchallenged.
Intel still has their GPU which will provide healthy income as well so AMD can't flex their prices too much.
Intel is absolutely fucked.
See, AMD thought 10nm would be alive right now.
But it's not, and they'll get all the moneys.
Hence why they can price a premium on their shit when they don't need to.
What's worse is, zen3 coming next year.
Intel needs to move on from monolithic dies.
What Intel GPUs are you referring to here? because I can't buy any.
intel might fuck up and cockblock him from doing his thing.
That's entirely probable.
There way this post from a (supposed) Intel employee that said corporate culture was at it's lowest point like 2 years ago.
Basically, it was like being a government worker.
Intel still dominates the high end market and until I see 3rd party benchmarks of the 3900x that wont change. Also why the fuck they aren't releasing the 3950x is beyond me. Well I know it's so they can sell more 3900x but still...
Calm down, Intel. You're only competing with the 3800x peasant chip.
Also Intel has a major case of bad management fucking things up and poking their noses into the development side.
wow, he's too poor to buy a 750$ chip.
Does this sound familiar?
**NEW** MONEY DOESN'T MATTER
It's funny, because now Intel is the cheapest option on a maxed out config.
What are you, too poor?
Intel saw the writing on the wall
Desktop CPUs barely print money, they can write them off completely and just focus on laptops and Xeons
That's why they hired half of AMD and Nvidia's GPU executives
>Intel needs to move on from monolithic dies.
That's one of the few advantages they're left with. Quite frankly I hope that AMD will get back to it at some point too.
Spending years to get rid of north bridge just to create it again is just lame.
It's not progress. It's cheaping out.
What are you on about?
Northbrige isn't a thing with zen2.
I/O die is pretty much a new north bridge
Honestly, what do you care.
From the bits we're seeing, it looks like it performs as well as Intel's monoblock cpu.
No.
>2 decades that Intel went unchallenged
You haven't even lived that long
I guess, bt it's fucking low lattency.
Also I bet they get direct connections to south bridge while doing so.
they have the technology, their flagship FPGAs are multi-die.
We'll see on 7/7 I guess. It looks good so far, but quite frankly I don't believe in Intel tier memory performance.
Intel is fucked, guys.
How are they going to make a 16 cores anyways?
It's over.
I'm gonna say it.
AMD just fucking got their chip to match Intel.
They could have killed them.
I thought the same when I got Athlon 64. But it's hard to kill a big company. Even AMD survived the whole Bulldozer thing.
Jim Keller will have no hand in the core architecture of Intel CPUs.
He's only doing SoC, which is part of where Ryzen's massive low power advantage comes from. The uncore power consumption of Coffinlake is massively higher than Zen's despite Zen using a ton of uncore toward infinity fabric.
Nigger you realize northbridge never left right? Just because it moved on die doesnt mean memory controller and IO werent still separate. Chiplets are smart as fuck because it means you can fart as many cores as you want onto a chip without having to make giant monolithic dies. AMD could literally make zen3 chiplets ringbus and still retain the IO die to have unlimited scalability.
A 3950x is quite literally two normal zen based processers glued together over the infinity fabric, hence it costing a little less than two standard amd 8 cores. An intel 16 core i9 is a giant fucking massive die, their yeilds are leagues worse than even the highest spec amd chips all due to the IO die and chiplets.
Less ISNT always more
Yeah, but it's different this time.
16 cores are real, and Intel only has 8 core for a few dollars less.
Honestly, I think AMD could have just priced it at the 9900k pricepoint.
But they can make money, and honestly, they should for such great tech.
Now, speaking from a value standpoint, I think the 3600x is gonna be a killer cpu.
It's gonna beat a 9700k at 250$.
Retard. Scheduler update actually brings moar performance to ryzen chips.
>server-tier CPUs good!
Also I don't think that companies are releasing stats about yields, but it's mostly iGPU that's fucks things up massively. It's taking like 1/3 of space. F tier CPUs are probably going to be a norm with their 10nm
Yes, that's what I was pointing out.
Zen2 doesn't simply match Intel. It destroys it.
It's only matching while not using the security patches and using the old scheduler.
They stich iGPU o CPU via magic.
Don't ask, but that's a thing.
Ok, I though you were yet another Intel shill.
It's hard fending them off all day.
Man, Intel is fucked. It was a thing having a 12 cores against you, but they can never 16 cores mainstream.
The best intel will be able to do is 10 non HT cores, and even then its going to cost an arm and a leg.
AMD was actually really expecting to compete with Intel's 10nm products in 2019
Why the fuck did they disable ht on 9700k for anyways?
security
Market segmentation and security flaws.
It gets worse next year with zen3.
Holly fuck Keller can pull of some miracles.
So, buying a 9900k is like buying security flaws?
*Cove on mainstream desktop should have 16 cores or so. But it probably won't come for 2 years.
At which point AMD will probably bring SMT-3 to mainstream desktop.
Intel WILL catch up to Zen2, but by the time they do I don't think it'll be caught up to Zen4 or Zen5.
Also, ultimately, I'm not sure Intel will ever take security seriously. They were warned about their speculative execution vulnerabilities in the mid 00s.
They were further warned about serious security and design flaws in their core architecture, as if P4 wasn't bad enough.
Yes. Intel released the 9900k knowing that it had a major and unpatachable security flaw.
Yes, Zen2 design started 3-4 years ago. They were expecting to be competing with a new Intel arch on 10nm. It completely BTFO coffinlake on 14nm.
You know, the main driver of cpu buying is gayming.
And it looks like we'll get zen2 consoles next year.
CPUs without ht, will never be able to run those games.
Intel buyers will get much remorse.
>HT
You mean SMT. HT is garbage.
>Intel buyers will get much remorse.
Yep. I bought a 2500k and regretted that stutterfire.
>zen2 consoles
To be fair, they'll likely be clocked at around 3GHz.
So a 9700k at 5GHz may match the performance of 8c/16t Zen2@3GHz in next gen console ports which fully leverage the multithreading of those console CPUs.
In the same vain, the 3600X with less cores is also likely to match the next gen console's CPU performance due to its higher clocks.
>You mean SMT. HT is garbage.
Hyperthreading is not inherently shit - Intel's core is still pretty narrow compared to the likes of zen (or if you want unlimited power, POWER9). Its taken Intel nearly a decade to unfuck the resource contention it causes.
On the other hand basically the only way to achieve near max throughput on zen is to leave SMT on - disabling it (outside of truly exotic workloads) will leave half of the core idling. Agner Fog's papers on the various cpu architectures are quite fascinating.
intel has 21 billion in cash, and 60-80 billion in debt, they are in a FAR worse position than amd was, as there is no real end in site for intel, they lost the fab lead, they haven't made a new cpu arch that hasn't been shit since pentium pro (pro > pIII > c2d > i series) and everything they do outside of this has fucked up horribly.
Holy shit, I had no idea they had that much debt. Is this the norm for Fortune 100 companies?
>60-80 billion in debt
wait what
First of all, learn what debt to equity is. Secondly intel is a bluechip and does tens of billions of dollars in business every year, quite regularly. They're not in a bad position financially. The company made the decision to issue debt. Something you should understand the basics of if you want to play at Jow Forums
AMD has just a couple billion in long term debt, but they've yet to really secure major profitability. Even now they're still dealing in the realm of millions in net revenue when they realistically need to pull in a couple billion net revenue annually.
Don't take anyone's word for it here. Jow Forums is about as good as /v/ when it comes to understanding basic market econ.
>2 decades
what, it was like, 8 years at max.
The 9900K die size could fit 12 cores where the dead igpu is left. But this thing might probably chug so much power and it will probably need a new chipset.
Server teir cpus are good. 3950x has better than intel single thread performance and it can multitask like a motherfucker. Its 2019, i have to close othet programs out if I want to play vidya on my 4690k. Someone with a 3950x can run games better than a 9900k, with 20 tabs of chrome open, a minecraft server running in the background, and livestream with cpu resources to spare. They can also let video/content render, while streaming, while playing a game.
Like yeah its edge case dont get me wrong, but intel literally doesnt have an alternative let alone at the same price point. Futhermore fact of the matter is 10 years down the line a 16core desktop processor is going to fare much better than an 8 core. Also furthermore we now have high core count cpus that can play games for affordable prices now, and they're literally faster than the more expensive intel alternatives.
Zen2 is the closest thing were going to see in the next 8 comparable to the revolution sandy bridge was
just optimizing.
>i have to close othet programs out if I want to play vidya on my 4690
i have a 4670k and i hate doing this so much. this is what the 8 cores/16 threads are for, of course not all of them will be used in gaming most of the time but multi-tasking is a thing on PC unless one runs a strict steam machine or something.
user, I...
Doing god's work
Optimize for intel all you want zen 2 has them beat at their own games baby
>Hyperthreading is not inherently shit
It most certainly is considering Intel's decision to disable it on the newer CPUs.
Ah the i9900DOA edition
Take a good hard look for the very last time
The very last one in a very long line
Only took a second to say goodbye
Been a pleasure, but the pleasure's been mine all mine
Where are those papers, on his blog?
Not really. If you read their annual report you'll see desktop is 20% of their income.
intc.com
apologize
Wrong.
Intel has 5bil short turn and 20bil long term debt.
That debt to income ratio is perfectly normal.
>i have to close othet programs out if I want to play vidya on my 4690
Had a 2500k and same thing.
There is a samefag ban evading shill who frequents /pcbg/ who calls people liars when they bring that up.
I'll never buy Intel again when that's what they offer for $250.
My first custom built PC CPU was a tbird 1.333. I had a p3 and celeron before that. 4 other AMD CPUs, E8400, 2500k. The AMD CPUs were always better.
It's strange that they go so hard on laptops when the margins are awful.
Intel can't compete by simply increasing core counts.
Their architecture is just worse.
It's less secure.
Less efficient.
Less responsive.
Costs more to manufacture.
>It's strange that they go so hard on laptops when the margins are awful.
Probably because laptop OEM's won't stop bothering them to give them something new to jew customers with.