>What are the available graphics cards' drivers? -amdgpu(4): AMD Radeon GPUs using the amdgpu kernel driver (not enabled by default yet, still a Work-In-Progress driver) -intel(4): Intel integrated graphics chipsets -radeon(4): ATI/AMD Radeon video driver
Literally never happened to me, it shouldn't unless you're using some chink-grade hard disk.
Jace Thomas
Oh look! It's Mr. Loonis, the guy that literally accepted an NSA algorithm (speck) in his kernel, and never bothered himself to implement any serious kernel-level hardening.
Henry Long
Install gentoo.
Hudson Harris
It happened to me twice. Because I did a hard shutdown like a real man. Then after I reinstalled I had to do another hard shutdown (like a real man) to confirm that a hard shutdown (like a real man) really corrupts the file system.
- Sent from my Debian VM on my Debian KVM hypervisor
Jayden James
Just did a hard shutdown (like a real man) on an OpenBSD machine, booted it, nothing bad happened. Also happened multiple times before. So it seems like your story is full of shit.
Connor Green
It's kinda funny how Linux shills get into full attack mode and start shouting lies left and right everytime an OpenBSD thread is made on Jow Forums, really says a lot about them.
Oliver Cox
Thanks, just deleted my OpenBSD VMs and ISO file.
Julian Lewis
Congrats to OP for proving great info for beginners.
Keep the title "OpenBSD General" instead of "OpenBaSeD" or "Why aren't you using OpenBSD", etc. It focuses more on providing info about OpenBSD and gives linux-windows users with inferiority complex less reasons to ree.
James King
I use OpenBSD. It's retarded to lie about shit that's true just because you're a fanboy.
The rest of the world has moved to journaling file system for a good reason. There are many good things about OpenBSD, but what's the point of pretending that the outdated file system is one of them?
Adrian Baker
Quite frankly the trolling of Linux vs. OpenBSD is retarded. There are nice things about OpenBSD, but there are also nice things about Linux: it's super flexible, making it useful from mobile phones and embedded systems to supercomputers, it's really performant, etc. Just like OpenBSD has a lot of attention to detail, good security, etc. (but, realistically, crappy performance and some parts of the kernel that are outdated).
You don't have to use or the other, it's not a fucking religion that you have to convert to. t. use OpenBSD on router and Ubuntu on laptop, and Windows on gaming machine.
Wyatt Fisher
It's still early, so i'm going to post the usual anti-openbsd arguments that going to appear later: -no modern fs (softupdates nigga) -no updated gpu drivers (no games in openbsd, so fuck off) -only base system is secure (what is pledge) -nobody needs all these security (go back to windows-linux) -freebsd is the same but better (fuck off the thread then) -the bsd license is more restrictive than the gpl, gpl is mah freedumbs (actually the inverse) -openbsd is complicated, has no docs (this is the simplest most documented os out there) -i tried to install it but it was too difficult (welcome to the simplest and fastest installation in the OS universe)
Chase King
>-no modern fs (softupdates nigga) Here we goooo
Aaron Ross
OP here, I didn't claim that non-journaling file systems are a good thing, I just claimed that data loss never happened to me as a result of power outage, the annoying thing is that I have to wait for fsck and that's it.
Christopher Adams
Mate I've been using OpenBSD for more than a decade. It's absolutely retarded to be a fanboy about stuff that's clearly outdated. Soft-updates are disabled by default because the implementation is broken. Read openbsd-misc (or was it openbsd-tech?) were Theo were admitting as much.
You are stupid fanboy. You are not doing OpenBSD a service by promoting stuff that's not true. Even OpenBSD developers admit that their file system is long in the tooth, so why are you lying? Every OpenBSD user has faced a fsck() prompt at some point when having an unclean restart, so stop lying about shit.
Liam Adams
Guys how hard is to learn HTTP and make my own web server? I have openbsd installed and want to make use of it.
Owen Lewis
>no updated GPU drivers OpenBSD got AMDGPU a few weeks ago. This. Many Linux users assume that OpenBSD threads are "anti-Linux general", while in reality we simply don't give a fuck about Linux.
Brody Butler
>(but, realistically, crappy performance and some parts of the kernel that are outdated). OpenBSD has lower performance than linux, not crappy, because it has so many security mechanisms in place. It is a great server OS. No parts of the kernel are outdated. OpenBSD is the only OS out there that actually deleted code not giving a fuck about backwards compatibility. Linux, however, is full of outdated shit. I agree with the rest of your post.
Andrew Lopez
What browser is this? Works with macppc?
Kayden Wright
I'm trying to be helpful. If we want other people to try OpenBSD, we need to be honest about its weaknesses. It's not perfect. I just don't get why this community has some of the most rabid fanboys. This is stupid, because people will install it, realize they've been lied to, and move on to something else.
Cameron Myers
>OpenBSD got AMDGPU a few weeks ago. OK. Remind me when OpenBSD 6.6 comes out, then.
Dominic Ortiz
How do I install neofetch
William Rogers
>Read openbsd-misc (or was it openbsd-tech?) were Theo were admitting as much. Citation required. Stop shilling without proof.
>OpenBSD user has faced a fsck() prompt at some point when having an unclean restart, so stop lying about shit. You haven't been using it for a decade. You are a shill because you must call somebody stupid and fanboy to get your point across. Every OS user has faced a fsck() prompt at some point and that doesn't mean anything.
>install OpenBSD >tons of crap in the base system >had to disable a bunch of useless services that not only do I have no idea why they're running, but I don't even know why the fuck do I have them installed in the first place >install mpv; try playing some videos >dbus pops up in top out of nowhere Tell me why I shouldn't go back to Gentoo right now.
OpenBSD is bloated and full of junk and you aren't even offered a choice to install a minimal system. I thought this was supposed to be the system where they disable even useful features for the purposes of security. Apparently though, useful software and features are the only things that you don't get in OpenBSD.
At least NetBSD has wine and a linux compatibility layer. At least DragonFlyBSD has a good file system and good performance.
What does OpenBSD offer? A gimped yet bloated system filled with junk.
Luis Hall
It's iridium, it's basically chromium without the Google parts.
James Peterson
>OpenBSD has lower performance than linux, not crappy, because it has so many security mechanisms in place. It is a great server OS. >No parts of the kernel are outdated.
This is wrong. The performance is not because of the security mitigations, but because the data structures and algorithms in the kernel have barely changed since the 90s. OpenBSD cannot push more than 3 or 4 Gbps on a 10 Gbps card. That's a fact; either try it yourself or read openbsd-misc for benchmark reports. The reason is that the kernel has high-latency, and is giant-locked. In fact, one developer is working on solving that. That's good. But let's not pretend the problem does not exist at the moment.
I love OpenBSD but the denial about certain issues gets tiring.
Is Theo de Raadt good enough as a reference for you? Read the entire thread, where OpenBSD developers confirm what I just said.
Do you realize your are shilling for something that not even the developers, or the project founder, agree with? That's what I'm talking about when I'm talking about retarded fanboys.
Jacob Gutierrez
>OpenBSD is bloated That's why I like OpenBSD though. Unlike most GNU/Linuxes, it comes with a compiler. It comes with yacc, with lex, with xedit and xcalc. It's a complete desktop OS out of the box. It's fine to prefer minimal things. I'm just glad OpenBSD isn't.
James Butler
Most of the blame about performance is due to disabled hyperthreading (which is a good thing security-wise because of the critical bugs that it enabled like mds, spectre and meltdown) and the file system.
Kevin Scott
It's not denial user. OpenBSD has a specific focus: security by default. Linux is more performance oriented at the expense of everything else.
Adrian Jackson
>You don't have to wait for 6.6, just run -current no, baotheim
Jayden Gomez
Me too! I love OpenBSD because the base system comes with everything that I need out-of-the-box, and it's all made in-house by the developers.
Ethan Thompson
>and it's all made in-house by the developers NIH isn't a good thing. The good thing is that the software is good, though. >all made in-house I wasn't aware that this was true either.
>OpenBSD is bloated >disable even useful features for the purposes of security. > linux compatibility layer. > bloated system filled with junk. There's a good shill.
Joseph Rogers
>Most of the blame about performance is due to disabled hyperthreading No. Hyperthreading is a problem for userland code (e.g. numerical code). The main performance issues in OpenBSD are: * Giant-locked kernel (this is a killer); OpenBSD devs are working on it, but it's going to take years, as it took for FreeBSD * Generally speaking, the kernel has not evolved much since the 90s, and the data structures and algos don't scale well to modern hardware and workloads.
We could argue about the second point, but the first point is definitely a killer issue. If you have a thread writing to a socket, you can't have another thread, even entirely unrelated, read from a file. This completely kills SMP performance. It's not an issue if you run a router with two cores, but if you're trying to run anything requiring high performance, it won't work (which is precisely why absolutely no one is running OpenBSD to handle high-throughput stuff).
Again, those are just basic facts that every actual OpenBSD user or developer is aware of.
Luis Jones
>it's all made in-house by the developers. OpenBSD is made by devs for the devs. They use it as their daily system. Linux devs use macs for eveyday and linux systems for dev purposes only.
Nicholas Barnes
>Try harder. The situation has not changed, faggot. Check the CVS commit history.
Why are you such a brainlet fanboy? You are literally lying about stuff that Theo confirms...
Jaxon Bailey
>Linux devs use macs for eveyday and linux systems for dev purposes only. The funny thing is that this is true for FreeBSD. Even GNU/Linux devs are better than them, in regards to that.
Don't believe user shills on Jow Forums, believe OpenBSD developers.
Henry Smith
The fact that they compile their pacakges with dbus support and allow useless (((freedesktop))) garbage in their repo at all makes OpenBSD end everything it stands for look like a complete fucking joke.
Luke Myers
OP here, thanks for the info, I might add them in the next /obsd/ thread.
Noah Gray
Fun fact. X11 and Wayland are both freedesktop. Even X11.
Jace Harris
No worries. Maybe you could add places that let you run OpenBSD in a VPS: * Vultr * Exoscale * openbsd.amsterdam
I personally use Vultr and it works fine (they used to have problem with KVM and the system clock but it's been fixed in the last release).
That website is misleading. Non-free firmware gets downloaded from the Internet *only* if your hardware needs it, and it doesn't even get executed by the host CPU. Almost all computers nowadays need firmware to function properly (including your CPU), not updating your firmware is a dumb security risk.
Hudson Price
This just in, GNU is fine with closed-source unmodifiable firmware burned into ROM but not loadable firmware that can be reverse engineered and replaced. What a bunch of fucking hypocrites.
Brayden Jones
>Non-free firmware gets downloaded from the Internet *only* if your hardware needs it I'd rather not use that hardware at all if it doesn't respect my freedoms. >and it doesn't even get executed by the host CPU I don't care, it's still propietary malware. >Almost all computers nowadays need firmware to function properly (including your CPU), not updating your firmware is a dumb security risk. So putting your dick in someone's mouth is fine is he's already being raped in the ass? I try to be as free as I can be. So I use a librebooted chromebook that doesn't have propietary microcode (it's an ARM PC) and with free EC firmware.
Adam Perry
Xorg, unlike most of the freedesktop crap, has an actual purpose and is something we have to live with. Shit like dbus, pulseaudio, *kits, udisks and whatnot is pure cancer (also, it's probably only a matter of time before it all becomes one with systemd). It's utterly baffling that trash like dbus is allowed on a system like OpenBSD. Wayland is an overt attempt to kill everything that isn't GNOME or KDE and make it almost impossible for new small alternative environments and desktop tools to emerge. Most of the freedesktop shit is borderline malware in one way or another.
Bentley Cox
>Xorg, unlike most of the freedesktop crap, has an actual purpose and is something we have to live with. X is utter crap and full of bugs to to its age. In OpenBSD is it restricted in userspace. As for the rest or your rant, should we just use windows then? OpenBSD is the only OS that is as far away as possible from all this crap (systemd, java, and more).
Parker Perez
>I'd rather not use that hardware at all if it doesn't respect my freedoms. Most CPUs require non-free binary firmware. >I don't care, it's still propietary malware. And it's still in your CPU anyways, it's just not getting updated which means that the vulnerabilities and bugs are not being patched. >So putting your dick in someone's mouth is fine is he's already being raped in the ass? No, in this case the dick is still in the mouth, but it's not getting washed regularly which is going to become disgusting later on. >I try to be as free as I can be. So I use a librebooted chromebook that doesn't have propietary microcode (it's an ARM PC) and with free EC firmware. Good for you. If your hardware doesn't need firmware blobs then OpenBSD won't need to download anything anyway.
Cameron Diaz
It's not their fault if the software has a hard dependency on dbus.
Caleb Gomez
>GNU is fine with closed-source unmodifiable firmware burned into ROM First off, it's "propietary" not closed-source. Now, while free hardware is a great cause we all should strive for, it's of way lower priority than free software. OpenBSD's developers could very easily refuse to include these blobs, and in fact they have a moral obligation to. Not much can be done about read-only firmware. Hopefully if/when propietary software gets outlawed we won't have to worry about this anymore. >Most CPUs require non-free binary firmware. Yes, that's bad. >And it's still in your CPU anyways, it's just not getting updated which means that the vulnerabilities and bugs are not being patched. Distributing propietary software is not ethical. The consequences don't matter. It should be the CPU manufacturers responsibility to license their firmware under the GPLv3, not the OpenBSD devs' to harm their users. >Good for you. If your hardware doesn't need firmware blobs then OpenBSD won't need to download anything anyway. It still doesn't justify malicious functionality.
Caleb Hughes
>It should be the CPU manufacturers responsibility to license their firmware under the GPLv3, not the OpenBSD devs' to harm their users. But by not distributing the firmware, the OpenBSD devs are going to harm their users by leaving them with vulnerable and malfunctioning hardware, so they have to distribute it otherwise they'd be in deep shit.
And licensing drivers/firmware under the GPL license is bad, because that means that non-GPL-licensed operating systems won't be able to use it.
William Rodriguez
>OpenBSD is the only OS that is as far away as possible from all this crap No, that would be Gentoo. You can easily remove dbus and the rest of the freedesktop cancer on Gentoo. OpenBSD+Portage would make the perfect system to be honest, but sadly, we seem to be stuck one of the shit tier timelines.
Most software doesn't have a hard dependency on dbus. There's no reason to compile programs for which dbus is optional with dbus support.
Anthony Watson
>OpenBSD's developers could very easily refuse to include these blobs, and in fact they have a moral obligation to. Not much can be done about read-only firmware. >Hopefully if/when propietary software gets outlawed we won't have to worry about this anymore. What is this idealistic theoretical talk? Do you have any code to contribute or do you just want to rant and demand things form others?
Cameron Diaz
You do realize that OpenBSD has a ports system, and that the portage system in Gentoo was literally inspired from *BSD, right? So your perfect system is actually a reality.
>And licensing drivers/firmware under the GPL license is bad, because that means that non-GPL-licensed operating systems won't be able to use it. Then maybe the people who develop these operating systems should consider using a better license. >Do you have any code to contribute All my code is GPLv3, so no. I wouldn't mind making a logo, though. >do you just want to rant and demand things form others? Yes.
Sebastian Parker
>Now, while free hardware is a great cause we all should strive for, >it's of way lower priority than free software I wonder who could be behind this post. Anti-open-source hardware shills are the worst. Fuck GNU. Fuck the FSF.
Joseph Reyes
>having to manually edit ports for almost every piece of software you use and its dependencies and maintain and update your own repository >instead of just setting USE flags in a single file or switching between profiles in one command The OpenBSD ports system is practically useless.
Jackson Adams
>>do you just want to rant and demand things form others? >Yes.
It's still pretty good once you learn how to deal with it.
Lucas Jackson
>better license
Zachary Gomez
>OpenBSD got AMDGPU a few weeks ago. >while in reality we simply don't give a fuck about Linux. I can't be the only one who finds it hilarious how you claim to not care about Linux while admitting in the same post how your OS leeches off of it
Brayden Allen
AMDGPU is released by AMD under the MIT license.
Oliver Fisher
blown the fuck out
Parker Mitchell
Yeah you should thank them for that fact too, your OS doesn't need more gimping simply because the drivers for your hardware are released with a license the BSD people don't like
Benjamin Wood
And...?
Luke Miller
Technology is supposed to make life easier and that's not what OprnBSD does, let me direct you to a more appropriate board
Jackson Miller
>The things that I use should fit everyone else, everything other than the thing that I use should go to trash. Go shill your stuff somewhere else and leave the OpenBSD thread.
Caleb Parker
I will as soon as you stop polluting this board with your garbage
Charles Jenkins
>Implying that I'm the only one that posts about OpenBSD In the past week, many threads were made about people using OpenBSD, lots of them got 200 replies and more, so go cry about that somewhere else.
Lincoln Diaz
Shills are getting too desperate and too obvious these days.
Leo Collins
Yes, I know that idiocy outnumbers intelligence, what's your point?
How did they deal with the fact that the amdgpu drivers are so big? I thought the word was that it was never going to happen because it was too big to properly audit.