Microsoft to start splitting shell from core build

Is Linux shell for Windows going to be available on Win10 Home?

xorg isn't linux-exclusive thingy
dos only relevant for being windows

I'm done with windows. it's too unstable now. windows only selling point over linux was stability. but now that's gone because i can't even update to the newest version because it doesn't support ryzen yet.. so i might as well just use linux full time now. ubunutu has been working fine for me. my rx580 is supprted out of the box and most of the games i play are supported by proton anyway. i think it's finally time for me to make the switch.

I would use Linux on my gaming rig but for some reason my wifi adapter is absurdly slow on it. I cant be bothered to get that fixed when I even made sure to get a supported wifi adapter that was supposed to work with Linux.

>windows only selling point over linux was stability.
no it wasn't. try
>corporate grade support
>application support
windows runs everything relevant and since windows 10, it even runs great on older hardware because it also has to run on shitty tablets. windows is THE desktop os, office and home, no matter what linuxers say. the linux community can't even provide a unified tool kit to develope software on it and when someone tries to force one (redhat, canonical), everyone gets buthurt because "muh, freedom".

You can kill X from one of the shells running on the other screens

>the linux community can't even provide a unified tool kit to develop software on
What did xir mean by this? Literally install any non-meme distro and you're ready to go you absolute retard.

Attached: Windows gets a new feature.jpg (640x480, 69K)

But's that's literally just normal Windows 10 theme with white accent. Windows 10 mobile light theme have the same look back in 2015, desktop version didn't allow you to use white theme because they used a lot of white text on the UI.

>unified toolkit
it's called QT.

Embrace, extend, and extinguish

Microsoft

thanks you based Satya

good thing wayland exists

I like the direction they're going.

>meanwhile xorg restarting a video driver that failed remains an impossible dream
Well yea, you generally have to restart xorg for that rather than just the driver. Where's the practical problem with this, though?

Or you can use magic sysrq. Try alt-printscreen-k, it should kill the whole virtual console.

Its such a shame, I was really looking forward to this being more fleshed out since it was a great concept.

To bad its still extremely undersupported.

Too bad Wayland is breaking every WM/DE, apparently not making it easy for them to get ported.

VNC/RDP/NX are still not all universally supported >10 years later, and many other issues.

X is still broken with many short comings that would require a flat out redo to fix
Wayland is that redo but the community is split on and dosn't get the traction it needs to really make a difference
Do to the split support from companies+communities, nothing gets fixed or done. This is life in Linux, and is also the same issues that have been plaguing sound in Linux for 20 years. We seemingly can't commit to ONE sound system and refine it to actually work.

what does that mean in practice

> X is still broken
It generally works.

> with many short comings that would require a flat out redo to fix
If you want to fix the shortcomings (even while redoing it), how about you don't make something completely incompatible AND completely inferior AND hard to adopt in the process?

You need to make it mostly better (without dropping all fucking functionality people need) AND either trivially easy to adapt or compatible. Wayland seems to have completely failed at that.

>explorer crashes
>restart explorer.exe

>xorg issue
>kill xorg && systemctl xorg

?

Explorer is more like kwin/dolphin than xorg.
Yea, you can restart kwin or dolphin.

The crash corresponding to xorg is generally a bluescreen on Windows.

The key combination Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to kill the X server has been disabled by default as a decision of the upstream Xorg project. You can change the default by adding the following section to your xorg.conf file. If one does not exist, you can create it manually at /etc/X11/xorg.conf using a text editor and Xorg will honor that setting.

Code: Select all

Section "ServerFlags"
Option "DontZap" "false"
EndSection

The Xorg project has changed the default DontZap setting to “true” after complaints from desktop users that accidentally hit Ctrl+Alt+Backspace when trying to type Alt+Backspace, Ctrl+Backspace, or Shift+Backspace, or who had StickyKeys enabled.

In debian based distros you can do

"dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" and after setting your layout it will ask to enable ctrl + alt + delete to kill xorg

Very useful to enable because 95% of the time it's not the kernel that's frozen but it's actually shitty Xorg.

Windows shell on Linux when?

>Where's the practical problem with this, though?
you have to restart all your apps
some of us use computers for work, user, we have a lot of stuff open

>The crash corresponding to xorg is generally a bluescreen on Windows.
in windows graphical subsystem has been decoupled from kernel space for years now and usually gracefully recovers from graphics driver failures
native DRM architecture on linux remains a complete shitshow compared to that, and binary blob shit which everyone actually uses is even worse than that

oh and wayland does nothing to fix any of this but hopefully you'll finally have functioning vsync, maybe
having to rewrite all your apps is a small price to pay for that unimaginable technological advancement

>wayland

Attached: reddit_soy.png (753x960, 29K)

Hm. I still got bluescreens on graphics driver failures before. Which is a system crash, not just an Xorg one.

But YMMV I guess, maybe it recovers some errors gracefully.

> binary blob shit which everyone actually uses
On Linux you have AMD/Intel's open source drivers. If you bought nvidia, you probably wanted proprietary blobs, but that's also the Windows situation anyhow - not like you got open source drivers there.

Not necessarily if kwin crashes. Only if Xorg crashes.

I guess we can't necessarily agree which is the analogy to what happens on Windows - these crashes range from kwin equivalent to total system freeze.

everyone who does actual work on linux desktops which involves opengl uses nvidia which means blobs for obvious reasons
intel used to be tolerable but last time i checked their "new" driver broke tearfree with no replacement because fuck you
> not like you got open source drivers there.
the point is, windows has a sane graphics driver architecture. linux absolutely does not, be it proprietary or open source.

>everyone who does actual work on linux desktops which involves opengl uses nvidia
Eh, no.

> intel used to be tolerable but last time i checked their "new" driver broke tearfree with no replacement because fuck you
It's more of a matter of you having a nvidia card then? Swap it out if that company still can't make stable drivers, eh.

> the point is, windows has a sane graphics driver architecture
My experience says otherwise. It always had a lot of issues from 3.11 right to Windows 10. Far more than on Linux with AMD's open sauce drivers (which of course mostly fall in the Windows 7-10 era, but still).

Not just bluescreen, also other absurd things like unsuspending the computer from hibernation or random moments in operation sometimes "splitting" the whole image on Windows 10 (that one was on a Nvidia GPU) and other silly shit. A train wreck if you ask me.

works fine on my machine. i dont know what distro you guys use.

>It's more of a matter of you having a nvidia card then? Swap it out if that company still can't make stable drivers, eh.
i'm not sure why you assumed that i personally use nvidia or linux on the desktop. personally i mostly deal with linux servers and networking equipment but i have a lot of industry friends.
>hurr-durr windows unstable
as opposed to xorg shitting itself over on a regular basis, windows bluescreens are usually (if you exclude literal malware) hardware related. you may think otherwise, of course, and you'd be wrong.
on linux entire graphical stack is garbage tier. you have xorg which is shit and everything below it also hardly works, only intel is largely stable but no 3d obviously.
try running something like an android emulator on amdgpu driver or god forbid nouveau.

>Not just bluescreen, also other absurd things like unsuspending the computer from hibernation or random moments in operation sometimes "splitting" the whole image on Windows 10 (that one was on a Nvidia GPU) and other silly shit. A train wreck if you ask me.
also lol at all of this specifically
this sounds very much like your one and only datapoint is some shitty chink-tier laptop with a malfunctioning gpu

>Meanwhile on Linux, copying text in one window and having it paste successfully in another window is an impossible feat

oh you usually can unless you close the window you copied text from
X11 has a very, uh, special approach to clipboard(s)

Too bad Wayland only works on foot and autistic tier i3 clones.

Based Satya, within 2 years we'll finally have a explorer.exe that doesn't suck

I remember using it for a few hours, nice idea on paper but in practice input lag was huge and it was laggy.

This may just be my personal bias, but generally AFAIK every wrong choice Microsoft has made since at least the mid 2000's up until he got the boot has been that fat fuck Ballmer's fault.

nadella is from azure division iirc it makes sense his approach to competing OSes is more pragmatic than ballmers tard rage

Yo dude I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Windows, is in fact, Windows/NT, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Windows plus NT.

Attached: sexy billy.jpg (991x988, 166K)

>native DRM architecture on linux remains a complete shitshow
care to explain? i wrote a pure drm/gbm/kms+udev backend for glfw years ago (unreleased, they have since then written their own) and aside for the crtc stuff it was pretty ok to implement.

sudo localectl set-x11-keymap LAYOUT MODEL VARIANT "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

ex us layout with default model and variant:
sudo localectl set-x11-keymap us "" "" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

ur a faggot

>Not referring to it as Window plus New Technology
Faggot hippie and putting acronyms to everything

too bad it doesn't work for any serious work environments that require more than a text editor and web browser.
It still gets terrible performance with good video cards, doesn't support arbitrary monitor configurations, and doesn't have fully accelerated graphical virtual machine support. Also, whats the deal with no full fledged WMs/DEs supporting features that actually make wayland good, like per-window scaling? It'd be nice if on my high-resolution laptop I could use wayland to scale up old software that is unusable at native resolution. Wayland also has other cool features, but they still can't even get it to provide the basic functionality X11 has had for 20+ years

dubs of truth

wayland was never intended to be an Xorg "redo" but was intended to provide a layer that an Xorg+WM+Compositor can be built on. If it was a redo, it would support standard X features like ssh clients. If it was a redo, it wouldn't require running Xorg on top of to support most applications.

works fine for me, bud

sounds like you're a wayland and/or gnome user. Just switch to windows, it will probably be easier for someone like you.

so if windows is getting all these sweet updates, when will it actually work?

Win/NT

gay

Not to mention Windows has largely looked like that since Vista.

Wait, how is this superior to "your driver has crashed, and we've restarted it"?

Yes, this is why Wayland exists

>Using an OS that still after 4 years has numlock off by default

sure

>When can I be able to use Linux shell on Windows 10?

Never. Microsoft has been working on CShell, or Composable Shell for a while now.
windowscentral.com/microsoft-windows-10-composable-shell

UWP is dead. Windows Phone is dead. Windows RT, S are dead.
CShell is dead because it doesn't matter anymore without all these things above.

how much does microsoft pay for shilling their shit daily here in Jow Forums ?

Except Apex legends

>in windows graphical subsystem has been decoupled from kernel space for years now
didn't they do that for security reasons?

must've been a huge pain in the ass because logically this something you'd do a long time ago

Same salary as jannies and Gnushills.

>default on all distros by 2012
>2020 is almost here
>still no Wayland

and how much is that?

>unified tool kit
Win32, MFC, WPF, WinForms, UWP. So much for unifying.

Xorg is a piece of shit because was designed in 1984 and is crazy maintain all those code

>"An X server has a tremendous amount of functionality that must be implemented to support the X core protocol. This includes code tables, glyph rasterization and caching, XLFDs, and the core rendering API which draws graphics primitives. "
>"For historical reasons the X.Org Server still contains graphics device drivers supporting some form of 2D rendering acceleration. In the past, mode-setting was done by an X-server graphics device driver specific to some video controller hardware (e.g., a GPU). To this mode-setting functionality, additional support for 2D acceleration was added when such became available with various GPUs. The mode-setting functionality was moved into the DRM and is being exposed through an DRM mode-setting interface, the new approach being called "kernel mode-setting" (KMS). But the 2D rendering acceleration remained. "

Wayland can restart the driver, but major distros refuse any adoption of Wayland

I would fucking 100% use Windows 10 if I could run any DE that I wanted.

>Xfce on windows
Sign me up

Yes because it is very difficult to stop xserver and then start it again.. 100.000 loc well spent for your worthless feature

you can use blackbox

>Linux shell

Ladies and gentlemen, summer Jow Forums summarized in a two word expression.

>gaming rig
Jesus christ I just can't believe some people

This sounds like the kind of project that Microsoft will start but give up on because it's hard, like WSL1, tabbed windows or Project Astoria. The Windows shell is weird and complicated and full of dated, esoteric behaviour. Making a big architectural change like this is probably beyond Microsoft's current ability. I wish there was somewhere I could put money on this failing.

That's not what this though. They're literally just making the shell updatable independent of the operating system. They're not going to let the shell be replaced by anything else. If you replaced it with something that didn't behave exactly like the Windows shell, software would break. It would be like using Wine, but worse.

I'm actually pretty happy I switched to Windows 10 Pro. I think my issue with Linux is the large amount of usability bugs. If I didn't game or need certain applications, Linux would be perfect. Really wish Wayland would hurry up with its development and I wish Xorg would get modern features, such as how Windows handles its display system.

>just restart it bro
you people sound like windows 95 users

finally i will able to run gnome on windows. based microsoft.

>it is very difficult to stop xserver and then start it again
i smell curry from xserver code...

>android emulator on amdgpu driver
? I'm learning android programming and emulator works completely fine on tonga with amdgpu.

nice dead game, lol

>I'm done with windows. it's too unstable now. windows only selling point over linux was stability. but now that's gone because i can't even update to the newest version because it doesn't support ryzen yet
What version of windows 10 doesn't support Ryzen?
You're just lying.

It is in fact inferior, as it requires user input.

I was just mentioning it because it wasn't announced until after it released.

Sweaty Balls isn't the only one to blame but certainly the one that deserves the blame the most.

no it isnt, Linux DEs suck dick