Refrigeration

Refrigeration is technology.
ITT we discuss air conditioners, heat pump, freezers, refrigerators, smuggle R12 Freon from Africa, etc.

Why Americans don't use mini splits? They are bliss to install in cardboard houses. No need to remove every winter...

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Ive had my heatpump / ac set to 20c degrees since may
Uk fags are seething
I live in scandinavia and it gets 30 degrees here

>Why Americans don't use mini splits
americans use non-mini splits, aka house wide central air. if you have the ability to install a split americans just have a regular split unit, window units are for the poor or people living in the big cities in older buildings.

I live in the US and have one. Its been pretty effecient but desu its a pain in the ass. For some reason the room temp thermistor breaks every fucking year and no AC repair guys know shit about it. I had one repair guy come out like 6 times before he gave up and told me to find somebody else. I just fix it myself now I had to buy a multi meter and shit and learn stuff.
Its a mitsubishi btw, it fucking sucks at not breaking.
I have a single indoor blower and a single outdoor unit and it cools and heats my whole 2br house.

Why don't we use refrigeration technology to cool our PCs?

Central air has a drawback. It is impossible to clean.
In case of mini split, you can clean it easily with bleach, which will kill everything there.

Becuase (((they))) don't sell f-gases to goys.
Because liquid cooling works.

high end computing and server rooms already do this, but if you mean at a consumer level the reason is that refrigeration generates a lot of heat and it's not better than just not having refrigeration.

A peltier device is a plate that u run a current through, one side gets hot and one side gets cold
A computer makes way too much heat

I blow ozone through my minisplit, easy as fuck. The problem with mini splits is you have to be able to do all the work yourself, because the hvac companies that deal with them are a fucking scam.

its actually broken right now so here is a pic of an American owned minisplit

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> For some reason the room temp thermistor breaks every fucking year and no AC repair guys know shit about it. I had one repair guy come out like 6 times before he gave up and told me to find somebody else. I just fix it myself now I had to buy a multi meter and shit and learn stuff.
>Its a mitsubishi btw, it fucking sucks at not breaking.
Sure, Mitsubishi fucked up, but your HVAC niggers are niggers that don't know a fuck, yet still try to repair. I bet they never said that they don't actually know what is wrong, and they are poking around...
Peltier elements are meme with low efficiency.
Btw, what about magneto-calorific effect everyone was shitting about couple years ago?
Lack of qualification is a problem.
If I would move to first world one day, I would probably get F-gas or EPA license, so I can fix my shit.
Dude, it is dirty AF.
Btw, which thermal sensor dies?

Hm... How can Russian open a firm in US and get needful documents? I think you need more certified mini-split niggers.

You don't need an EPA license to work on your own equipment, only if you are a technician for hire.

But when you need to recharge it, and vent freo... I mean recover refrigerant?

This

>Sure, Mitsubishi fucked up...
I was able to deduce the problem from a single blinking led with an error code I had looked up in a repair manual. I was afraid to service it myself so I told these niggardly hvac guys exactly what was wrong and they still poked around and couldn't figure out what to do about it. I literally had one of them for two days in a row on the phone with technical support asking dumb ass questions while I watched to make sure he didn't steal my shit. It was honestly a life altering decision, I've learned never to call a service "professional" unless you are actually in over your head.

Its actually very clean, the radiator fins have some damage but it doesn't really affect much. its pretty hard to avoid if you're opening it up a lot.service guy did some of it, I did some of it too.

Its the room temp thermistor. it plugs into the main board but the part is hard to find if you aren't in the know. I think its why the nigger service guys I hired didn't fix shit for so long, because they themselves didn't know where to get the thermistor and they were replacing a bunch of parts they did know how to source to "see if it solved the problem". The thing I told them was the problem was the last thing they tried and it solved the problem, till the next summer...

I got a LG unit installed a few months ago. It works great.
It's been hot and with 3 ACs in the house we used almost 700kWh last month.

>Its actually very clean,
It looks dusty. Mine chink unit has golden tint on fins, and it is easy to see dirt there. Idk, maybe it is some proprietary coating, difficult to tell from photo.
>the radiator fins have some damage but it doesn't really affect much. its pretty hard to avoid if you're opening it up a lot.service guy did some of it, I did some of it too.
Yes it is OK, fins are super thin. I expected them to be something like laptop cooler fins, but they are actually more like aluminium foil.
>Its the room temp thermistor. it plugs into the main board but the part is hard to find if you aren't in the know.
It might be some common part, and it may be replaced by cheap chink thermal couple or thermistor.
Do you have Mitsubishi Electric, or Heavy?
Also, if you have inverter unit, I would check first one-wire digital wire connection between outdoor and indoor, I have heard that this shit causing weird problems.

Yeah, I asked the guy where I get my nitrogen and stuff from, how much freon comes back for recycling, he laughed and said none.

HVAC is a total fucking scam, the industry exists to keep technicians employed. Furnaces, and AC is designed in the worst way possible.

So, this is not a big deal finding in bumfuck nowhere a shop, which sells f-gas (R410a and such. R134a I think you can buy even in walmart) without license no problem?

Not worth it in leaf-land where there's maybe a week worth of above 30 days in a year.

It Russia HVAC niggers brainwashed consumers into believing that freon is consumable, and they make shitty flares on purpose, so gas leaks, and they get called after couple years to refill.
But in heat-pump mode? Shit it pretty good, if temps are above -5C. Would save many moneys on heat.

In Russia*
Customers*
Had a brain fart, sorry for pain.

Mini splits are shitty to maintain and bleed, efficiency goes down the longer/ more bends you have in the piping. Depending on the piping run you might also need a pump to pump out the AC condensate adding more parts for failure.

DC inverter dual vent window units are king, easy to maintain, easy to take apart to clean, Newer Hitachis are even Smart Air wifi enabled. 7 years warranty, 15 years parts availability guarantee. R410A so it doesn't blow up.

You don't need to remove window units every winter unless you nigger-rig it in a window you use. There is a thing called a dedicated AC hole.

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Mitsubishi Electric
The outdoor unit works great. all the problems are in the indoor unit. Basically when you start the unit it will begin cooling or heating or just blowing for about 10 minutes, at which point it shuts down to avoid thermal runaway because the inside temperature sensor isn't reading back correctly. I have not found a reliable source for the replacement thermistor, but the service guy eventually replaced the whole board and it came with a new sensor

One of the reasons it was such a pain was that 10 minute wait period to see if what you did made any difference. and these dumb ass techs replacing parts that appear to functioning perfectly.

My parents had one installed in their cottage. The central air was better for the whole building, but for the one room this was fine. That said, the barrier to install it properly, compared to a window banger is kinda shit.

Where do you even get these?

i live in Texas and it's always hot. i want to put my refrigerator and stove outside so i don't heat up my house when cooking. any good outdoor appliances?

Intel already does.

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Uh, I ordered from my local AC shop which was running a discount on the model before the wifi version, they also sell them at B&Q Home Improvement, Carrefour, basically any place that sells large appliances or has a Hitachi showroom here.

I lived in the south with a fridge/freezer combo outside and it eventually killed the unit. It was working mad overtime to counter the heat. It was in the shade but it wasn't enough.

>thermistor breaks
Maybe breaking on an inrush when you turn it on for the first time a year or something?

I have checked couple schematics and manuals, they use thermal NTC resistor. They even provide graph in manual.
Resistance is measured at 25C, so I guess you need 10K thermistor NTC. Something like pic related.
Idk, I'm dicking around too.
>efficiency goes down the longer/ more bends you have in the piping.
Not really. As long as you don't kink the pipe (yep, you're supposed to use a pipe bender, cut insulation and bend, not by hand), you are good. And length not exceeding recommended in manual (it is somewhere around 5 meters or so). Gas doesn't give a fuck about bends. It gives a fuck about restrictions and length.
>Depending on the piping run you might also need a pump to pump out the AC condensate adding more parts for failure.
Unless you live in basement. 99.999% of setups have pipe dripping to outside. 0,0009% have fucking bottle for collecting condensate...
I guess shitty thermistor.

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Hmm
The reason I asked was I live in the US and I wasn't even aware DC inverter window units exist as all the units you see here are just your bog standard non-inverter ones
I was really tempted to get a mini split as the non inverter window units are pretty god awful for efficiency even compared to a non inverter split system but they are kinda of a bitch to setup and it would be nice to have the SEER of a mini split but just in a window

If you maintain your filters it should be perfectly clean. Although I really don't understand why we don't make ducting easily accessible for cleaning. My only complaint is that unless you have dual units it's always impossible to keep the upstairs cool without burning money on your electric bill to keep the downstairs icy.

I wish dual hose portables were more common. Tons of rentals don't allow window units anymore, and obviously a mini split is out of the question because you need to mount the compressor part somewhere.

>and obviously a mini split is out of the question because you need to mount the compressor part somewhere.
With some relativity you can make gypsy mini split from 115V DIY unit I guess.
115V is the same voltage you have in sockets (amps don't matter TM). and DIY because it has flexible pipes.

If you live in a house, condo, or apartment with reinforced concrete and I or H beams you will run into installations where the piping has to go down and or up to clear a beam and window, which absolutely requires a pump for condensate. Newer mini splits have the pump hidden in the indoor unit these days instead of an external box.

In condos or apartments with restrictions on where you can place outdoor units, you will absolutely run into installations easily exceeding 5 meters resulting in temperature leakage in the lineset.

>Why Americans don't use mini splits?
*The Window A/C effect is still there (hideous equipment attached to the side of the house for every room). Also present in every room. The outdoor appearance issue should improve as VRF becomes more available but as for the indoor...
*As much if not more expensive depending on the number of rooms
*More expensive to work on because there is just plain more equipment involved if you put one in multiple rooms.
*Basically it's does not scale well in a residential environment.

Condensation.

The problem isn't affording a mini split. It's where the heck am I going to put the outer unit on a 2nd floor room?

Do what japan does and just mount it on the side of your building/house

>Its the room temp thermistor. it plugs into the main board but the part is hard to find if you aren't in the know.
That is kinda the problem with them, they're compact as shit with no thought put into serviceability. There are some cases where you have to take them off the wall to work on them (meaning recovering/pumping down the charge, disconnecting power and refer lines, taking it off the wall, fixing the problem, remounting it, reconnecting the refer lines and power, evacuating the refer lines, recharging/releasing the charge and then confirming if the problem was fixed) It's like a 4-6 hour process for one tiny little piece of shit.

Compare it to working on old cars where you opened the hood and could see every part in the engine versus working on new cars where the battery is hidden behind the wheel well.

my outdoor unit is mounted to the wall. There is no reason it couldn't be mounted 15 feet up a wall, it would just be more difficult to install and clean.

Uh, you can look into other brands like LG which also do dual inverter window units, I know for sure LG sells window DC inverter units in the states.

DC inverter ACs are godsend, no more cold/warm cycles and thud/thunks as the compressor starts and stops.

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>room temperature sensing thermistor
>inrush
Should not even be in a load carrying circuit, if it is that is shitty design. The electronics are just measuring the resistance to determine room temperature based on the scaling of that sensor.

>If you live in a house, condo, or apartment with reinforced concrete and I or H beams you will run into installations where the piping has to go down and or up to clear a beam and window, which absolutely requires a pump for condensate.
I don't understand. Wtf do I and H beam to in RC building?
I lived in commie block, and it had rebars, which are pretty easy to bypass.
>In condos or apartments with restrictions on where you can place outdoor units, you will absolutely run into installations easily exceeding 5 meters resulting in temperature leakage in the line set.
Long pipes create resistance. Idk, I have checked manual from my unit, it says 3 meters is minimal (since otherwise compressor will suck liquid and die) and 15 meters is maximum.
Difference in height, however, should not exceed 5 meters.
Like real man. Idk about OSB though, but studs are probably strong enough to hold 30 kilos.
Inverters are for pussies. Real man prefers on-off units.

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Plenty of residential buildings use I and H beams in construction, especially in earthquake prone areas. I live in a 22+yr 12 story condoplex and it uses a bunch of beams. My room has beams along 3 of the along the ceiling.

Here's a random example, red arrows points to beams, the blue arrow points to AC lineset, the beam the AC is mounted on has been artificially widened and lengthened to hid part of the lineset.

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Aren't newer designs using common gases like co2 at super high pressure? Not fluorocarbon or whatever r134a is

Like I said, rentals. They sure as hell won't allow it, hell even if I owned it I know for a fact the HoA manages the exterior here because they're town homes

I have never seen such beams in residential buildings, even in earthquakes spicholes like Chile.
Well, in that case I would probably hang unit on exterior wall. But that placement on beam is kinda neat, desu.
Nah. R410a (GWP of 2000+), R32 (flammable, but muh greener) and R290 (propane, rare). That is air conditioners.
Fridges use R134a (thankfully that shit is being phased out), R600a (isobutane, flammable, but is definitely better reliability than R134a meme), R290 (propane, more for commercial stuff).

hey cool thanks. I'll pick one of those thermistor cartridges up and see if it works, if it does i'll buy 12 more!

There are different thermistors, with different curves. I would recommend you to check it with service manual and datasheet of sort, or maybe ask chink if shit will work.

>if temps are above -5C
The newer ones work fine below that, down to 0F.

>Why Americans don't use mini splits?
I'm an MEP engineer. The US uses mini-splits often, where applicable.

Window units are just cheaper. If you've got one in every room, you're doing it wrong. You just buy one or two for the rooms you want to keep cool.

>be rurope
>ACs in houses are basically non-existant

heres your air condition

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>40° heat comes in

>open window
>it's 38c outside
>close to 50c in the sun
yeah that's a really good idea

I'm not a hobbit

I have an apartment with a porch and windows that don't allow for window AC. I was thinking of ordering one of those pre charged 15 amp mini splits and putting the compressor on the porch and jury rigging some wiring so it hooks in to the a 15 amp circuit that I would then cover all the sockets for. I could put the tubes through a window that goes to the porch and then just jam some cardboard in there to seal the gaps. How retarded is this idea?

by that point you could just get the portable ones on wheels

Is there any te/g/nology that can cool down my bedroom which doesn't have a window to hang a hose out of? I generally find that fans are bullshit, but have there been any cool technological advancements in that area?

Drill a hole and install a minisplit

Those things fucking suck in comparison to the mini splits, otherwise I would go for it for sure.

Thanks dad.

portable AC.
Completely pointless spending thousands on minisplit for something you only use during summer

Aerogel insulation and vornado circulator fan.

For a price of $200~300 I'd say they do the job just fine.

Obviously it's not comparable to a system that cost $2000+. I would say buying the unit isn't really that expensive either. It's the professional installation fee that's going to kill you.

How much are mini splits?
I got a 9200BTU LG for $260

What kind of super cheap shitty minisplit did you get? I don't see a single one for that price

My LG portable AC cost $270 and it's 10k BTU

The lowest end one. LG V10ENW
I could've spent 50% more for a fancy top end Panasonic but in the end I saw no reason to spend more.

Low end is $600.
Mid range is $1500.
It doesn't matter anyway, because you'll still have to pay around $1000 for the installation fee, unless you want to risk killing yourself/fucking up your house doing it yourself.

And that's just 1 room.

I paid $80 for installation
I'm third world though.

Drips water on the carpet

>portable AC
>it's 10k BTU
yeah and 2-4k of those are being lost due to retarded manufacturers using one duct

They still have terrible COP at that temp.

>unless you want to risk killing yourself/fucking up your house doing it yourself.
How can you kill yourself with air conditioner?

Low end is $300. Chink AC.

You need 110V variant, obv.
Those DIY units have super flexible hoses, so yep, you can rig it into gypsy AC.
I would use styrofoam on window though.

I mean, in 220V shitholes it is possible. I don't know about 110V shitholes. Typical compressor is 1 kW (12000 BTU) so probably you can

Based Technology Connections did a comfy ep on A/C's

youtube.com/watch?v=_-mBeYC2KGc

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Alec, please log In

>split AC is better than Window AC.
No, it isn't.

It is.

Can confirm

It's expensive,and cost twice as window AC, and you need HVAC to install it.

The video isn't about window units.
It's about the types you place in your house with just one hose sticking out of the window.

I have one myself (because I have no other options) but they are fundamentally inefficient because they suck in hot air from outside instead of just circulating already cooled interior air.

You do need a license for that. 410-a is the new residential refrigerant though. While many places don’t realize this you CAN buy 410-a without an epa license. This is why they have started selling systems to the public. R-22 they never tried this.

>Cost
In my shithole they are cheap
>HVAC
There is nothing difficult there. If I can do it - average retard here can do it too.
Even non DIY.

Most systems of all types are going to ecm type motors. Basically they all have inverters for efficiency

240v/15/40 amps will kill you dead. Thats before we even start on the refrigerant or a furnace.

All places know this, they just don't give a fuck, because they probably don't give you a receipt or something.
In any case, you could get R22 pre charged units no problem.

The condenser rejects heat. You put it on a porch it either won’t have airflow or will run everyone out for rejecting said heat. Those things come with mounts to attach to the side of any building. Much better option.

>Why don't we use refrigeration technology to cool our PCs?

Because if you cool below ambient temperature you'll get condensation.

>AC repair guys know shit about it
How about you learn to fix it yourself? That's the only way to learn. You know what they say. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame one. I'd feel bad for you if you just fucked up once but for this to happen yearly, and to repeat your mistake again and again, you've got only yourself to blame, pal.

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lel, this

I never realized this was from a movie, I just thought it was some based looking wojak.