Fuck capitalism

>How do you think capitalism came to be?
>It’s not like a single person wrote about his wet dream of a society where the strong prey on the weak, and people started pushing that agenda.
capitalism is a much more complex system than "the strong prey apon the weak". IT
>Did you read a word I said?
yes , you made the baseless assertion that capitalism is natural . please elaborate. tell me why it has only existed for 150 out of the 200,000 humanity have existed ,even if it is natural. It came out of monarchy after it succumbed to the weight of it's own contradictions and in much the same way communism will come out of capitalism after it crumbles under it's own contradictions. capitalism is a necessary steeping stone to communism. in much the same way monarchy is a necessary stepping stone for capitalism

Capitalism appeared because it’s a good system that fits in the current time and age. It’s not baseless to say it’s unnatural, you need to prove how humans are above nature in the first place to call something unnatural.
Communism, on the other hand has yet to prove its worth in humanity.

Reminder that no first world industrialized nation is wholly capitalistic
nor wholly socialistic
Mixed economies for the win
Based centrism for the win

Exactly.
Equality in power doesn't necessarily mean "anarchy", but it gives everyone an equal opportunity for productivity, progress and prosperity.
Money corrupts. Power corrupts. And we've seen it all countless times. And, with the main dogma of capitalism being "money is power", it gives nearly no chance — not even opportunity, 'chance' — for the "commonfolk", "sheep", if you will, to demostrate their abilities and be productive to their fullest. They are suppressed, 'made' weak to be ruled by these 'strong' ones, who are just nothing but the same people, the same humans, made of blood and meat, who just amassed their wealths at the expense of these "sheep" they're feeding on like leeches. These 'wolves' are just nothing but parasites, basically, with the absolute minority sucking the nutrients and weakening the majority (which, by the way, surpasses these "wolves" by thousands and thousands of times in numbers), thus impeding the progress of humanity as a whole.

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Sorry, this was meant for this

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>Capitalism appeared because it’s a good system that fits in the current time and age
I agree. but that dose that does not mean that it should be exempt from criticism. (although , fuck capitalism isn't really a good criticism ).
>Communism, on the other hand has yet to prove its worth in humanity.
I would argue that socialism has there have been some instances (although short lived ) where the workers formed societies that were not capitalist (a good example of this was catatonia during the Spanish civil war. they didn't have any leaders and they gave into the system what they could, and took out what was necessary, without the need for any state) . Eventually It got destroyed by fascists and liberals though.

One of my favorite Russian authors said something about “verbiage”. I don’t remember exactly what he said, but I think it would be right down your alley

The planet gave us enough resources to advance in the ages onwards, while all this "money" and "currencies" are nothing but waste of wood (which paper's made of) and metals, which could be used for something much more useful.

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Well, it's no wonder that capitalistically-shaped mind wouldn't understand such concept as not being dependent on money and not having a master-slave relationship-shaped society.
Goes to show how much and for how long has capitalism poisoned the minds of humans.

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Of course no system is exempt from criticism. My general consensus though is that saying anything wildly popular is inherently “bad” because we don’t like it is artificial. Thought nothing is natural until it happens.

Oof, are we resorting to adhominem now? If I was a Neanderthal and said that drinking bleach is bad for your health, would I be wrong because I’m a Neanderthal?

Well, sorry if I offended 'you' specifically, didn't mean to. Just wanted to point out that it is a concept that is really hard to get for nowadays society, for thousands of years confined in the shackles of such things as "price" and "currency".
If we would just have been using the recources of the planet to create things, not thinking about their value, the humanity wouldn't be in such a state now that your very life depends on how many pieces of paper named "money" you own.

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But anyway, even with the existence of money, it is kind of, to say the least, unfair, that, for example, out of 150 million people in the country 149.900.000 have 5% of all capital in the country, while the other 100.000 have 95% of all wealth, isn't it?

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Again, verbiage.
Also those pieces of paper aren’t actual value, they’re receipts.
What is your idea for a perfect society? What is the final goal we should strive for?

That’s not about capitalism, but rather what you think is fair. Nature is not fair.

>All political discussion belongs in Jow Forums.

Capitalism isn’t necessarily a political system, but rather a mechanism used to keep track of economics.

Well, ideally, such concepts as "price" and "currency" should never have existed, as people would freely invent with any tools at they disposal, and distribute their inventions among society for it to use them to produce, invent, and progress further along the way. The main factor (or should you say, 'bet) of this model is that humanity would fully understand that it needs to progress further, not stop and delve into laziness and anarchy because everything is available for free. And humans, in my opinion, are (or more like "were") capable of realising that by just having everything you need will not move the humanity further, you need to use what's given to you, not laze around.
So the humanity would have been shaped into a well-oiled work machine, moving only upwards, not burdened by some oligarchs amassing power and wealth and supressing others.
It's just that it is very hard, if not already impossible, to realise this in present society. That's why communism in USSR failed — it wasn't truly communism at all, as there still were some people "more equal than others".

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But, anyway, concluding our talk about ideal societies, as, indeed, such conversations are much better suited for Jow Forums instead of here (and the audience there would at least have better understanding of such global concepts), you know the fact that ~95% of the whole wealth of our planet is being hoarded by only 5% of the Earth's population, right? And 'that' is the direct result of this capitalism, its whole concept of "money is power". The more money they have, the more money they need.

So yes, fuck capitalism indeed.

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That really sounds really nice, but it doesn’t account for the fact that some people are wired differently than others. People form different opinions and do different things. If what you’re suggesting is equality of opportunity rather than outcome, then essentially it would still be the same just without our little fancy green receipts.

this is why I left the thread.

It's just that the main bet in such a society would be on a goodwill of the people, their will to move humanity further, and their understanding that they get the free stuff, but they have to work too and contribute to continue getting the free stuff.
I suppose it would have worked, had it been accepted earlier, and, while the ages were going by, the chance of it succeeding were rapidly diminishing.
Also, yes, with the present overpopulation of the planet it is already physically impossible to provide everything needed for all of the 7.5 billion people out there, even with the instant transfer to such a system and instant reshaping of the minds of the people.
So it's all up to wealth redistribution now.

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Alright, I wanted to leave on "fuck capitalism indeed" part, but just wanted to conclude the (almost) impossibility of realisation of the model of society I provided in present environment.
Just want to shake hands and make peace at last.
Deal?

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I guess we can find common ground in that. A global anthill I suppose.

It's a deal, then.
Thank you very much for the conversation. It actually helped me quite a lot, as I'm not a native speaker, of course, to train my use of terminology and skill in expressing my thoughts and ideas. Hope I expressed these understandably enough, although I do see that it was quite a bit messy in some parts. But, well, thanks for keeping with me 'till the end, and goodbye.

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Thanks, I enjoyed this too.

all economical systems are pyramids
you just can't avoid it
capitalism is best pyramid so far since it ultimately fucks up less people and has much milder drops complared to communism where you literally have to kill your own people for the rest to survive because your pyramid just crumbled

It's not the time to draw this conclusion yet.

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I disagree with you on that last statement; almost every political ideology is based around some sort of cannibalism. The goal would rather be to find the system that cannibalizes least, or more effectively.

Thats really wierd coming from chinese tbqh.

Then what are you disagreeing on exactly?

Capitalism, aswell as communism, has both literally and figuratively killed its own in order to protect itself. In that sense there isn’t much of a difference between the two.

Wrong. Capitalism is trying to suck every last bit out of you before crumbling, ultimately putting blame for not achieveing anything in life on you, so you have to climb ladder up and contribute to the pyramid. Communism is fine with decimating its population for the greater good rendering all the blame on the government, which is a critical point that keeps crushing communist societies over over again.

I’m not disagreeing with the fundamentals of capitalism and communism, just pointing out that both systems are cannibals. In your original comment you implied that communism is the only murderer of the two.
I do agree with your overall point though.

CCP do committed many mistakes from 1966 to 1976. However after the reform and opening-up policy been carried out, the growth of our comprehensive national power is simply astonishing. So long as we don't collapse, it's too soon to draw any conclusion that which ideology is better. Capitalism has its own problems too, like the shortsighted politicians been pulling strings by the big capitalists.

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No, you're not agreeing, you don't understand it. Capitalism expands to prevent itself from crumbling(not only geografically but economically, look at China, they are basically slaves for US nowdays). Communism trying to find resources within, but there just isn't enough when everyone is equal, so to induce equality it has to get rid of those who are not equal.
Except Peoples Republic isn't a communist country anymore. I'd say you're full on neocons by now politically.

In ccp's narrative market economy and planned econimy are simply the means of distributing resources. The safeguard of socialism lies in the state-owed corporations taking dominant position on national economy. As long as the government owns most of the means of production, general public can benefit from the growth of economic more equally than capitalist society.

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Then I think I’ve missed your initial point. I assumed you claimed capitalism to be ultimately flawless because of the fact that it hasn’t sacrificed its children.

and fuck your opinion

>slaves for US
Since we are starting late, sacrifice must be made to catch up. The undeniable fact is that we are getting better each day and US can't threaten us to give up our fundamental interest. If they push too hard, we shall see each other in battlefield.

If thats true, why is your government selling goods for green paper and invests into american bonds? You're slaves, and to break that you're trying to expand as much as you can which is quite a concern for me actually since your guys agressively expanding on Russia.
My ultimate point is capitalism can sustain itself to roll over through generations without having events that would require to kill en masse but rather sacrifice defective people over time with putting a blame on people to make them responsible for their own actions, while communism just simply has no means to do that so it has to succumb to catastrophic losses which undermine political power of the elites who are only elites until general population says so. And its really hard to stay silent when your country is in ruins. I'll tell you this thing, nobody in USSR thought its their fault soviets fell, and instead blamed everyone else(and we still do), while everyone in US knew its their fault for being retards and investing in housing bubble in 2008.

Capitalism is just a broader form of barter and trade. Money isn't only 150 years old, retard.

Jesus Christ nevermind go back to Jow Forums you retards

As developing country we take a more practical attitude toward Marxism. In fact our political textbooks have been emphasizing on combineing Marxism with the reality of china over and over and over again.
>Selling goods for green paper
Well such act not only bring back dollars but also industrialized us from scratches to one of the greatest industrial powers.
>expanding on russia
You can also put it this way, china has been deepening its corporations with russia. I don't think any of our governments is stupid enough to fight against each other while letting EU and america profit from it.
>I'll tell you this thing, nobody in USSR thought its their fault soviets fell, and instead blamed everyone else(and we still do), while everyone in US knew its their fault for being retards and investing in housing bubble in 2008.
This may sound offensive, but it isn't socialism's fault.

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Yeah it's more of a Jow Forums topic. But I think as soon as I use china as example there, I will get racist insult immediately. I decided not to take part in any kind of political discussion on Jow Forums before. But I just got stressed out by the coming exam. Sorry never again.

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>As developing country we take a more practical attitude toward Marxism.
Which is to ditch that bunch of hoe and go full retard with gambling on US economy to try and make profit for yourself. Don't tell me your cunt isn't doing exactly this, because fuck it you guys are having largest bags of literal paper and most of that paper tells you that they own you, but buying that paper is what you think is going to transfer said ownership back to you, but it won't because they give you the money which you use. But instead of using it to prop economy like a true communist country would do you keep doing more of gambling. And to top that idiocy you pretending to be commies. Its ridiculous really.
>I don't think any of our governments is stupid enough to fight against each other while letting EU and america profit from it.
Yeah, thats because our faggots are happy enough to turn us into China 2.0
>Well such act not only bring back dollars but also industrialized us from scratches to one of the greatest industrial powers.
What happens to all of your overinflated economy when US will just tell you to fuck off? They are actually in the process of doing this right now if you didn't notice.
>but it isn't socialism's fault
Mindset of our people is socialism's fault. Economy crumbling is people's fault.

Sorry, but I'm getting heated discussing this. Its actually quite personal.

Only time can tell then.
Actually we are in a middle of really awkward position here, fundamentalist commies accuse us betrayed communism, capitalists laugh at us being vicious commies. But I still recognize china as a socialist country and truly believe the CCP is trying to make china great again(I have to steal this line from Trump for failing to find better way to put this.). One more important thing I believe in is that us individuals can become friend no matter what the official relation is between our countries. After all from a negative viewpoint, why should we give a fuck about our elites' interests. Have a nice evening ruskie, going to bed now.

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>After all from a negative viewpoint, why should we give a fuck about our elites' interests.
REEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU DIDN'T LISTEN TO A SINGLE WORD I SAID

Nightey.

humans are still capable of making things even if we don't follow a system that works for some and doesn't work for others. You act like we'll just give up on life if we stop doing things exactly like how we've done them in the past.

>I guess you would rather see the strong be pushed down, and the weak elevated?
It might be kind of funny, yes

Fuck people who don't worship satan