Is it still a nightmare fuel, or did they really come around with the global shift to the cloud, HANA, Fiori, etc.?

Is it still a nightmare fuel, or did they really come around with the global shift to the cloud, HANA, Fiori, etc.?

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it is pure ass

its worse nightmare fuel than ever before, user

it is shit. As a german I can say that german quality, especially in the programming sector, has become worse and worse over the last ten years.
I mostly try to avoid german software. The only thing we can do really good is stuff like simple less than 200 lines scripts, which are pretty stable and do just one thing.

Why? I probably got completely brainwashed by their sales spiel in openSAP tutorials but their cloud environment seems cool and I really liked how fast you can build CRUD HANA apps with their Web IDE

I don't want to identify myself too much but SAP almost ruined 3M in the areas it was implemented, it's been an ongoing disaster for over 10 years and has destroyed like 10% of revenue and a huge amount of productivity in the areas it was used

The former. People are still selling and buying on-prem implementations of it like candy too, fucking degenerates.

Was it properly implemented?

If juice isn't work the squeeze, then why do people use it still?

>Properly implemented
>SAP

You're funny.

SAP is like IBM, in that I have no idea what keeps it afloat.

My employer recently updated its SAP to HANA and it's been pretty terrible for them. Sure it's scalable now but it runs like crap

yes. if anything, it's too properly implemented. it's resulted in everything taking so much longer than it used to that productivity has plummeted. it's really caused problems everywhere. it's been such a fucking nightmare holy shit nothing has ruined my peace of mind more than SAP.
for example things like "last second" orders in the supply chain have caused enormous problems. typical case, a big customer shop calls up and says oh we actually need some extra of this specialty grinding wheel. used to be the guys loading the truck could just go grab them and throw it on the truck before the driver left and it would get sorted out down the line. SAP makes it such a procedure and length exercise to take care of that that often either the truck leaves without it or it doesn't get recorded correctly or any number of major problems. it's completely removed the ability for workers to "nudge" things or to take shortcuts. you might think in theory that's a good thing but in practice it's actually awful, and doing everything by the book every time just means wasting time. especially when you're dealing with a lot of real labor and supply where things are always messy to begin with.
in 2014-2016 things were getting so bad that our sales guys were literally driving their personal cars across the country to make deliveries because the supply chain was so fucked up. I had to do a "midnight delivery" where I drove for 14 hours straight because nobody else could do it and I volunteered to save my friend even though I wasn't on the line.

welcome to the world of "enterprise" software. The people making the decision to buy it, the people who have to set it up and maintain it, and the end users that its supposed to serve are all three different groups of people with conflicting requirements.


in other words you can ignore the latter two and sell it to CTOs by giving them "conference" trips to Vegas and shit.

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I know what you mean. I work as an accountant and we have exactly the same problems. Doing things the right way is so tedious that people don't give a shit.

I don't think there's much of a choice for big companies. other popular ERPs, CRMs, etc, e.g. from salesforce, provide much better experience, but they all seem like a toy compared with the behemoths from SAP. Also, SAP sales people are really good and sell it to companies who don't really need it

its still pure shit.

somehow they get company to use them.

i work inside supermarkets. every week we have problems with it. every saturday for 4+ hours we have to phase all the data in stores while we try to fix these issues.

Workers can't even change there bank details for payroll without calling HR to enable a edit mode first. because SAP will give us a error that we still haven't fixed in 4 months now.

SAP is the white man's choice. Niggers, Meds and other non whites can't deal with it

I've been working on SAP for 3 years now and I don't see myself sticking into this shit

I've seen several SAP developers on Jow Forums so I figured I might have some luck asking here: how can I go about learning about IDOCs in depth, e.g. how its data model works, be able to understand what the fields like EDI_DC40.CIMTYP represent after looking it up in the docs, etc. I very often have to integrate commerce applications with S/4HANA and not understanding what the fuck I'm receiving is a huge obstacle. Do I need to learn S/4HANA or ABAP first to understand it? Every S/4, ECC, or ABAP book or tutorial I came across doesn't even mention IDOCs though.

>Is it still a nightmare fuel
It will forever be known as Slow And Painful.

Did a bit of hands-on work with it in uni. I personally would not like using it.

I'm a SAP application developer. Nowadays I deal mostly with interfaces between different systems, so alot of IDOCs aswell. What you have to understand is that IDOCs are just plain text. They have a header, a body and they end with a segment counter. An IDOC is devided into fields which have a fixed lenght. The lenght depends on the type of IDOC you are sending or recieving. In order to understand the content of an IDOC you have to look at the data types of the IDOC segments. If you punch in the name of the IDOC type into google you will find a description of all the fields in the various segments. If you are recieving IDOCs into a SAP system you dont need to understand it. All you need to do is configure the interface and specify the IDOC type. If you are recieving IDOCs into a non-SAP system, parse it as plain text with fixed lenght fields in a fixed order.

I work with this crap on a daily basis. It's the most thought out software I know of. If you understand the concepts behind it, it can help you run your business. If you don't, you are going to lose alot of money trying to get your employees to use it, maintain it and keep it running. Hell, the licencing alone is fucking expensive as it is. As far as I understand SAP is trying to become a "cloud only" service. This will cut down on cost for both SAP and businesses using their software. On the other hand its going to bring a whole lot of legal issues. Its still shit, but its shit that makes the world go round concidering how many businesses use it worldwide.

It's like implementing death into your estate, don't fucking do it.

Your company basically runs on this software. If it's properly implemented then it would work wonders for you, if not you are fucked. Though, most of the SAP migrations/implementations are rushed without training and proper load testing scenarios.

Being nightmare fuel is their business model, else you wouldn't need their army of consultants.
And i wouldn't ever trust their cloud offerings. It's dependent on their infrastructure, which (at least the network part) of course NEVER has problems, its always somebody elses fault, they won't ever answer to the contact information for routing issues they themselves deposited into the public databases and won't ever answer any other contact methods because we're not SAP customers, just the ISP of your customers

"but its working with telekom"

Yeah and its not working with us so JUST FUCKING CALL BACK so that maybe we could fix our peering problems together and not wait a week until even the romanians are storm calling you just to find out that your routers at the exchange went tits up

t. ISP network engineer who got tortured by his customers for a SAP fuckup. Don't be surprised if your SAP cloud problems take a loooong time to fix.

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I work for SAP for more than 7 years.

HANA for its time was really nice - full in memory DB solution. Of course management went full retard as always and bundled every single piece of software in it.

The good thing is that we are going full cloud. The bad thing is that this means that people working with 10 years on-premise mindset are put in charge of moving to the cloud.

We are slowly changing the status quo, but it'll take a while.

Also I've no idea how all those different SaaS companies which we bought are going to integrate with everything...

You can ask me anything

I meant it more on a conceptual than technical level, i.e. how to translate IDOC representation of e.g. tax rows or product variants to the data model in the target system (usually SAP Commerce). I usually deal with existing integration tools, but the data model is always highly customized on both system, so parts of the mapping logic, transformations, etc. have to significantly change. It's really a pain in the ass to do without an in-depth understanding of the source data model structure. Googling IDOCs gives only a very low-level descrption of the fields, using very product specific vocabulary, so it's hard for me to understand without any S/4HANA knowledge. Are IDOCs just one-to-one dump of the data that is shown to the S/4 users, or is there more to it? Should I just learn S4/HANA? Or ABAP?

Same here. Christ, I wish we could go back to JDE. It sucked too, but at least I could do everything I needed to for my job without having to justify my access to a half-dozen autistic Pajeet contractors.

>I work for SAP for more than 7 years.
are you a millionaire yet?

Even VPs at SAP need to run scams to get rich...

paloaltoonline.com/news/2012/05/21/sap-palo-alto-vice-president-arrested-for-lego-scam

I'm not a consultant... The pay is okay and the benefits are quite good. The stress is quite low, I'm working and contributing to OSS projects so I'm happy for now.

Also I'm T4.2 grade, so I can do whatever I want.

If you want to translate the content of the IDOC into the target data model you have to understand both data models and crate a mapping. It comes down to knowing the meaning of the data which is being transmitted. You are going to have to look at the programms which produce the IDOC on the source system in order to understand the meaning of the data being transmitted. In that case of knowledge of ABAP is required, even if its very basic. Is there any specific example which causes you trouble?

so you're just an average code monkey?
meh

watch out! we got a CTO over here

you would think someone working with SAP for years would have make bank and quit

guess not

No - I'm the equivalent of Google Staff SWE, so my day is about 30-40% actual codding and the rest being meetings and various architecture discussions+ crapton of emails + PowerPoint.

Im not a manager and I don't have any direct reports, but I lead a team of 10.

I don't know about SAP but I watched a multimillion dollar Oracle implementation get torn down into a salesforce instance and some inhouse ec2 stuff that after a rocky 6 months finding its feet was wholly preferred by the entire company.
In the past executives and boards used to think using Oracle meant you've "made it" in the tech world.

What you normally for this approach is to do lots of networking and either join in one of the SAP partner companies or crate new company for SAP consulting and then get acquired by SAP and quickly jump the career ladder.

* When you normally go for this approach...

Oracle is pure cancer. The only reason for not running some OSS database or solution is the fact that your can blame someone else for your failure ( top Enterprise strategy ). The sad fact is that nobody got fired for buying Oracle

Oracle's products are outstanding. The issue is with their marketing fags and fucked up licensing model that changes by the hour.

Oracle has more lawyers than programmers

> Oracle products are outstanding.

Yeah, right... marklogic.com/blog/oracle-oregon-lawsuit/

You forgot that Oracle is entitled to use a license audit at any given time for no reason.
Scare tactics 101.

>If you want to translate the content of the IDOC into the target data model you have to understand both data models and crate a mapping. It comes down to knowing the meaning of the data which is being transmitted. You are going to have to look at the programms which produce the IDOC on the source system in order to understand the meaning of the data being transmitted. In that case of knowledge of ABAP is required, even if its very basic.
That's what I was going for, but I don't know anything about ERPs, ABAP, etc. and I didn't even know where to start and avoid going through hundreds of pages of introductory stuff only to realize it's going nowhere and it's not really what I was looking for. So am I safe to assume ABAP is in practice tied up to ERP-related IDOC-like data structure and some good intruductory ABAP book will help understand IDOCs?
>Is there any specific example which causes you trouble?
Not right now, but I wanted to avoid going through hell again on the upcoming project.
Thanks a lot man

How much are you getting paid? A friend of mine was T3 I think and he left because they were screwing him with the salary (others earning more as he was not aryan)

Cloud is an excuse for companies to wash their hands of infrastructure problems and say "it all works on my machine, it's clearly an issue on your side. we charge by the second btw"

I'm getting almost the max for my grade. Grades and salary ranges are available for my location.

Compared to other companies, the pay is less, but I get more benefits and the stress is almost zero. My direct management doesn't care what we do as long as we can benefit the company and our organization in some way.

This is the only reason why I'm sticking with SAP atm.

Hi sap employee! I nearly went to work for that shithole pajeet corp, glad i chose big4 consulting instead. Its stupid ez and pays decent

nigga spit some values

100K? 150K?

Let's say if I relocate to USA ( I had offer an year ago ) I'll get about 130-140k USD. Atm I get far less in home country, but my salary I'm still in top 5%.

My boss legit told me that I should learn SAP. I do not think he understands what I want to do in 5 years down the road (I'm a software developer).

Not a SAP employee, but do work on implementations of a SAP product and been curious about the rest of SAP landscape.

IBM remained afloat thanks to their mainframes that were stable behemots as fuck and in some areas you just need that kind of stability