2019

We need a final solution to linux desktop distros

if it was horrible people won't use it at all. I like Linux but don't pretend that your own '''opinion''' is objective.

>Userland is bad because there isn’t a single force making decisions
the userland is GNU and the force making decisions is GNU
libinput is a 3rd party utility and you can swap it out for evdev or synaptics if you don't like it

it is unobjectively the best OS mankind has made thus far. you're acting like a moron.

STEVIE WONDER DID NOTHING WRONG!

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>swap it out for evdev or synaptics
that works for now because X11 is still the majority
but what's the alternative when wayland completely replaces X?

>when wayland completely replaces X
that will never happen

Happening in next decade. KDE and GNOME are already 90% wayland-ready. It just lacks a few things and cucks lack their (((nVidia))) support which is being worked on.

And those faggots are constantly breaking userland for others. Doesn't matter how stable Linux is when glibc is constantly changing and you have to spend massive effort if you wanna make old software compile and work.

this

>Happening in next decade
lol no
>KDE and GNOME are already 90% wayland-ready
and every other DE/WM will keep using Xorg
>It just lacks a few things
wayland is broken on a conceptual level

>wayland is broken on a conceptual level
Elaborate, instead of just flinging shit

if one person decided to implement a simple program like scrot, setroot, redshift, xdotool, wmctrl, wmutils, conky, sxhkd, or something for one compositor, would it work in all compositors?
no? you can't implement such programs as independent components separate of the compositor?

lol imagine wanting to write a simple "window manager" for wayland and having to implement every fucking feature some person might find useful because things like fucking scrot aren't compositor independent
imagine having to either reimplement the wayland protocol yourself or use some bloated soidev library like wlroots to create a simple fucking window management program

wayland is an absolute fucking joke and will never be a thing outside of GNOME

Linux is a kernel.

Okay, that sounds bad. I've been imagining that compositors would adopt standard libraries that things similar to xdotool and redshift could hook into, though - wouldn't this solve the modularity problem?

>I've been imagining that compositors would adopt standard libraries that things similar to xdotool and redshift could hook into
there's no such official standard library
all that shit is left to the compositor devs
wlroots tries to be something like that, but it is inevitable for something like that to become bloated trash in order to cover all use cases
it's also developed almost entirely by sway soidevs not many serious programmers agree with on everything
even if it was good, you can't force people to use wlroots the same way everyone's forced to use the display server Xorg
bigger players like GNOME and KDE can afford to implement their shit from scratch
soon, some other similar libraries to wlroots will emerge and some will use that as a basis for their compositor

wayland would literally murder the linux desktop ecosystem
why would I want to write an unclutter clone for wayland for example when it'll only work for one compositor and nowhere else?
why would I write a status bar for minimal compositros if it'll work on a few of them at best?
development for such a fragmented "display server" is pointless

maybe things never improve due to retards like you and their "you don't need that" mentality.

also, wayland is heavily influenced by GNOME
they pushed for the insanity that is client side decorations for example
GNOME is the only thing that benefits from wayland
honestly, if you're not a GNOME fag and you think wayland is a good thing
well, you've besically been meme'd by footfags, Red Hat and soidevs

Any arguments to support that bullshit claim? macos runs perfectly smooth, has perfect nvidia (and overall) driver support, and the world's most stable desktop environment (no screen tearing).
I'd rather have a uniform and standardised, yet flawed project, than a ton of amateurs thinking they know something. At least that way it's easier to pinpoint the bad code and fix it.

well that's really depressing...
it seems a completely tear-free & feature complete linux desktop is nowhere near

>setting up your mouse to disable mouse acceleration can be done via xinput
>xinput is apparently supposed to be a pure testing tool
>some distros, like Ubuntu, don't give you a "disable mouse acceleration" checkbox even though that feature is implemented in the underlying tool

Also
>getting touch to actually be touch instead of a way to move the mouse

Linux distributions are a house of cards full of horrible assumptions and bad designs. Everything is done with the least amount of effort, which means that implementing anything that builds upon this house of cards requires a ridiculous amount of effort.

Why is it pointless, just select the top 3 most used DEs/WMs and develop for those. Fuck the fringe and forget the obscure. I'm personally contributing to wayland with the mindset that only Gnome exists for the linux desktop period. Why? Because it comes with ubuntu, the most used desktop linux OS.

go use appleshit and never come back

Also, Wayland has no X forwarding equivalent.

Yes, X forwarding consumes too much bandwidth, but Wayland would be the in the right position to fix that.
The ability to run a server totally headless and yet serve visual applications without putting any GUI libraries onto it is a fucking dream.
I use virt-manager in Windows to manage my VMs and it's as if I was running the window natively. It's seamless interplay between multiple platforms.

Fuck you, stick to the pack or get packed.

>perfect nvidia driver support
>he doesn't know

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Come home then.

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Don't know what exactly.

Then continue with your sour grapes walled garden, I’ll stick with gnu/freedom

Instead of thinking "hmm yeah this would be a good useful feature to implement let's work on that" they're lazy irrational pieces of shit that can't work on it themselves.
The absolute state of FOSS

Why is it horrible? It's the one OS that offers the greatest Unix experience out of the box.

>gnu/freedom
More like GNU/anarchy.

How about the freedom to make an environment worth using? You're young and inexperienced, listen to the elders. If you can't find any, appoint some as project leaders.

X is broken on a conceptual level because it allows easy keylogging.

>mindset that only Gnome exists
Kys, you fucking cancer.

>Kys, you fucking cance
I'm not spending a microsecond working in vain for 50 autists, and neither should anybody else. dwm ~ cwm ~ awesomewm ~ icewm ~ i3 ~i3gaps ~ twm ~ openbox
There, no reason to use one above the other so all "programmers" could have spent the time on one and make it amazing.

>have 144hz monitor
>download 5 different popular linux distros
>not one of them allows you to change the refresh rate above 60hz without googling an obscure command line input
>even if you do that it forgets when you reboot so you have to learn how to set up a script at startup
And people wonder why nobody uses linux

forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/209560/video-nvidia-support-was-abandoned-in-macos-mojave-and-heres-why

Are you 100% sure Ubuntu on xorg doesn't work? settings > devices > display

Not even zenity works. The whole dialogs in gnome don't work under wayland. Don't get me started with graphics cards and not it is not nvidia's faullt to 100%. Wayland isn't even working good with the normal nouveau. The wayland team is full of elitist ignorants that don't want to write some if-else for simple stuff. The best part is: Everything that needs to be done is handled by third-party addons. Fucking damnit.

I tried it last year so I don't know if things have changed but I never touch stock ubuntu, always something like xubuntu or lubuntu. It's not even just that, every setting you'd want to change just doesn't work. Try disabling mouse acceleration, it's literally impossible. Use whatever arcane commands you want, it's obvious the second you move your mouse some troll neckbeard coded that shit to do nothing.

Nobody mentioned any of those. GNOME is the worst DE/wm available to linux.

Hhahahaha absolutely correct, I hate KDE for that. It's so weird, as mouse accel. tends to 0, the acceleration does drop. When you set it to 0 or -1, it goes apeshit. What the fuck is happening, did I overflow the buffer jesus chrsit

And it's the most used next to KDE, so it has absolute priority. If those shit programmers helped work on it, it wouldn't be """"the worst"""

if you somehow managed to get a keylogger installed on your machine, you've already been pwned, dumbass

Not him but try this
xinput

xinput test
Now youse your PC and see what happens.

>xinput: command not found

evdev and synaptics are botnet

>X is broken on a conceptual level because it allows easy keylogging.
Every major operating system can do this.
On windows you can log anything with this and just let the input go through as if there were no program inbetween. Simple visual basic code like this:
Public Declare Function RegisterHotKey Lib "user32"

Just watch out what you are installing because this can not even be detected by antivir programs as it is not even a heuristic either.
I think it is good that we have xdotool and I hope something like it will be in wayland in the future too. Anyways, you can always create a program that reads from clipboard and fire CRTL+C before that.

sudo su; cd /; find -name xinput -type f

I don't have it installed, dumbass

sudo apt install gnome-session*
boot into it retard then post

>sudo apt install gnome-session*
lol no thanks

I couldn't install gnome shit on this system even if I wanted to anyway

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I just remove the package and install synaptic instead.

Well at any rate keep in mind that anyone with xinput (99% ubuntu and debian users) are vulnerable to it.

is synaptic good for trackpoints?

xinput list

Lists all devices.

xinput list-props [device]

You can either use the ID or the name to refer to the device.

Under props, there's "mouse acceleration profile".

xinput set-props [device] [prop] [value]

Allows you to set the profile to -1. -1 is the "no fucking with mouse behavior" profile.
There's like a dozen acceleration profiles and they are all disgusting.

To now adjust your mouse speed, the property is "linear deceleration", if I remember correctly.
If it isn't, you can find it by searching for the one that cannot be set above 1. I use a setting of around 0.3 for my favored speed.

I know this because I'm rolling out Linux clients at my company. The mouse behavior was the first thing that pissed me off and I spent a week getting it just right to me.
Apparently I'm the only person in the company who cares, though. I felt literally nauseous from the default "move at normal speed, unless the cursor moves faster than X, then abruptly accelerate to a multiple of default speed" behavior.

It shouldn't be this way, but at least the system is open enough to do shit like this.

Gnome can do this. There is a nice slider for the speed of the mouse. KDE also has an option.
For XFCE try xinput to adjust.

Based, saving

why does it matter if someone who already compromised your system and can run any arbitrary code can also use xinput to read key strokes?
they can also steal all your data, encrypt all your data, or do pretty much anything they want
are you betting on a slim possibility that the attacker will only try to read your keys and give up if that fails?

It's a userspace command, any process that can interface the shell can do it, any shell script can do it.

any shell script can also encrypt all your files

No since my important files require write permission.

Thanks, I invested some time into even finding out that there was a -1 profile.
It's not in the manpages, it's not on a site that has "xinput" anywhere in its title.

It's here, right in the fucking middle of the page:
x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/PointerAcceleration/
At least there's documentation, I guess. Finding out how to make a virtual network in kvm routed instead of NAT was even more retarded.

Also, from this page the correct property is likely ConstantDeceleration.

debian buster (updated from stretch) on 3 machines here. I do not have xinput anywhere. It is not in the standard installation and you don't seem to have it even with steam, lutris, virtualbox and other things (my setup). So which packages do require this?!

Unsure, but it likely works.

which your user should have.

gnome shit apparently

xfce should have it, as well.

But I do have gnome, the full standard gnome setup you get with all the shit like totem, libre office, vlc and all the shit that is pre-installed with this.

FUCKING THIS
(and mouse acceleration that cant be turned off COMPLETELY)
the only reason every time i feel like "its time to try something different" and install linux i quit within few minutes

Xorg, I've 2 ubuntu machines, vanilla 19.04 and they are vulnerable.
My user has read privileges otherwise what's the fucking point honestly??

If you want something different try freebsd or more precisely project trident.

>(and mouse acceleration that cant be turned off COMPLETELY)
See

Then it comes with the shit in ubuntu. As I said I don't have it.
$ dpkg -l | grep xorg | awk {'print $2'}
xorg-docs-core
xserver-xorg
xserver-xorg-core
xserver-xorg-input-all
xserver-xorg-input-libinput
xserver-xorg-input-wacom
xserver-xorg-legacy
xserver-xorg-video-all
xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu
xserver-xorg-video-ati
xserver-xorg-video-fbdev
xserver-xorg-video-intel
xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
xserver-xorg-video-nvidia
xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-390xx
xserver-xorg-video-qxl
xserver-xorg-video-radeon
xserver-xorg-video-vesa
xserver-xorg-video-vmware

Based and redpilled. Fuck slavs, fuck anglos and fuck franks.

Well then I can't explain it, maybe my country's ubuntu server is MITMing me.

but can anyone explain to me why there is a nvidia-legacy-390xx and I get this with that command:
$ cat /proc/driver/nvidia/version
NVRM version: NVIDIA UNIX x86_64 Kernel Module 418.74 Wed May 1 11:49:41 CDT 2019
GCC version: gcc version 8.3.0 (Debian 8.3.0-6)

systemd: *exists*

This is honestly like a kindergarten argument where a bunch of kids are arguing over who goes to pick up the balls after recess.

Linux needs a major audit of the entire ecosystem, to be perfectly honest. If you ever want this shit to actually take off, you need STANDARDS. People simply want their shit to work without issues.

We need to decide what is responsible for what. The reason Wayland is so fucking slow to gain popularity is because X.org used to do everything, all you had to do was build shit on top of it, and it worked. It was like the foundation of a building. Wayland tried to shift responsibility to the coders of the window managers and desktop environments, they cut a bunch of grass in an empty plot of land, dug a big hole, and then they were like "Alright, we're done here" and left. Then everybody else had to jump in that hole and build their own new foundation to fit their house which was already prefabricated for X.org. No wonder it took fucking years.

Was that the correct decision or the wrong decision? What we need are experts in all the various fields of the Linux ecosystem to come out, get together, and theorycraft the idealized structure of an "ideal" Linux operating system. Not only will they be able to confront their hidden gripes with each other over the years and deal with their passive-aggressive bullshit, we can set up a roadmap for the future to work towards. Clearly there would be overlap, people would still fork or create alternatives, but we need DIRECTION. Linux is basically just driving blind, hoping they get to where they want to go; roadsigns and maps be damned, those are for losers.

Oh and make sure the systemd faggot is banned from the meeting.

Certainly.

Another lovely facet of the ecosystem is DNS. For routing and IP, as long as you only need part of the functionality - doing any changes permanently is unintuitive as balls - you got a pretty okay tool with ip.
Really, it's a great write-only tool. Too bad about the shitty output format.

But good luck getting DNS configured on a random distro on the first try. Or even in a distro that you actually know, for that matter.

It seems like everyone assumes that you are either running DHCP or using the system in such an archaic manner that you don't even need DNS.
Troubleshooting of DNS issues in Linux is a horror story. The OS is constantly gaslighting you if you don't know the exact setup, because there's dozens of ways DNS might have been configured and sometimes you edit a config and still nothing happens. Did you edit the wrong config, did you make a spelling mistake that caused the config parser to silently fail or is the issue unrelated to your DNS system?

>systemd faggot is banned

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We do but we won't have a solution because everyone has his own shitty philosophy, personally i think the whole GNU philosophy is fucking retarded and closed fucked

you sound like that one girl in middle school who's particularly good at writing long bullshit essays but has little idea about what she's actually talking about

>What we need are experts in all the various fields of the Linux ecosystem to come out, get together, and theorycraft the idealized structure of an "ideal" Linux operating system.
this is how things are lol. check the countless forums and mailing lists lmao

@71620613
He's delusional, get him to the infirmary.

If you're a home user, you probably ARE using DHCP, and if you aren't, you're being dumb. The only reason that you ever really need static IP is port forwarding issues, but these days, that shit isn't even a problem anymore; I have bittorrent use a random port on startup and it always fucking works; if I tried that 10 years ago, that shit would never fly.

There should be a program responsible for network shit and have a bunch of preset configurations to choose from, defaulting to DHCP; let the advanced users manually set up all that shit if they don't conform to the presets. If I want to change my DNS, I should be able to just open up the network application, enter a DNS and a backup DNS, and it'll automatically configure the connection. This is how every fucking device I own works. Desktop Linux should work the same way.

fpbp.

>How many fucking people care about scroll speed?
I do. i care about lots of interface-related controls.
the "ugh you don't need/who even uses/what the fuck is wrong with you just do it my way/just make it yourself" faggots are the primary reason i do not use a linux-based operating system.

There are more mouse users than keyboard-only users. You mistakenly think the opposite because the keyboard-only users are autistic screechers to compensate.

>the primary reason
This. Amateur speak. If they said it to a FANG team lead, they'd get slapped on the ass and fired.