FUCK WAYLAND

islinuxaboutchoice.com/

Why would you want screen tearing?

LINUX is about CHOICE
That's WHY I think WAYLAND should DIE because I LIKE my MONOLITHIC codebase with over A MILLION lines of code that NOBODY wants to MAINTAIN and is full of TEARING the WAY it is THANK YOU very MUCH

I'm not going to read your faggoty fucking blog. Suck my dick and make sure you rub my balls while you do it or you won't get your meth fix tonight sweaty.

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imagine begging your OS to not tear

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You are exacerbating the problem and trying to stifle discussion with your LARPing. Xorg should be replaced. Nobody is saying it shouldn't. However, Wayland is measurably worse and is going to make this problem even HARDER to solve by being forced on everyone. On top of all this horseshit, there aren't even any good window managers worth using on Wayland. Are you expecting me to drop EVERYTHING I have and try to use some garbage ass GNOMEshit just to "solve" a non issue that can be treated as such:

then let me sum it up for you

>Linux is not about choice

that's all there is to it

maybe you werent here on x early days and multiple implementations but it wasnt much different from today
just like it happened then people will figure it out how to do what they need with wayland
only now im way more optimistic because the protocol is actually good and can be extended and even standardized where it needs to be, my company follows a similar structure and its the best way to make sure legacy pieces dont stay there forever and you can replace bits without fear
people from the industry also like to work with wayland ive talked to many last vulkan khronos conf

You're wrong though. Nobody is going to figure out how to solve this fundamental flaw with Wayland because there is literally no way around them forcing vsync on everyone. Not even Windows has this problem. Are you going to tell me and everyone else who doesn't want vsync to fuck off in the name of "progress" or some buzzword shit? Come back when there is an alternative to Xorg that can even fulfill the BASIC FEATURES that Xorg can.
Now, let me ask you this:
Imagine playing Quake with forced vsync. This is a measurable problem.

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>Are you going to tell me and everyone else who doesn't want vsync to fuck off in the name of "progress" or some buzzword shit?
Yes I am. Either fuck off or write your own compositor that has vsync disabled. Try deleting all code from weston that manage frame timings and make sure the display is correct and the latency is low. Try just compositing everything as fast as possible without regards to display timings or anything. Do it and see what happens. You won't do this though because it requires work instead of just complaining on a chinese finger painting forum.
>Imagine playing Quake with forced vsync.
I have been doing that for literal decades now and it's fine.

for a while you cant really disable dwm on windows 10, its all a bunch of hacks and dxgi mode tricks to make you think it can, and it works just fine. best way to deal with gamers is to give some nicely coated placebo
there was a prototype for weston that did exactly that

Not sure for who you are confusing me with, I saw a mention on tearing and contributed the code.

I am not participating in the discussion here and wont be.

>I have been doing that for literal decades now and it's fine.
No you haven't, you have been playing with optional vsync.
Figure me this, if I told you that you were going to be FORCED to store all of your data on some big company's server ala ChromeOS, lest I call you a luddite who hates progress, what would you say? The sad thing is that we're on the way to having this be a controvertial opinion 10 years down the line. Be careful what you wish for. Nobody likes being forced to completely change they way they do things because some shmuck from California thought it was a good idea.

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Imagine if a software was free and open source which meant that anyone in the world could modify it to do whatever they wanted to do, if only they were willing to put in the time. But instead that person spent all their time complaining on the internet. What would you say to that person?

>Imagine if a software was free and open source which meant that anyone in the world could modify it to do whatever they wanted to do, if only they were willing to put in the time. But instead that person spent all their time complaining on the internet. What would you say to that person?
This argument is brought up all the time. The only people who seriously and genuinely believe this know that they are being disingenuous before they even open their mouths. Sure, on paper you can do this, but pragmatically speaking? Fuck no. There are many large corporations willing to pump millions of dollars into stupid pet projects like Wayland, SystemD, Flatpak, etc which only serve to not onl ymake Linux worse but to give them a greater influence base on the whole ecosystem. I don't have millions of dollars to compete with RedHat's efforts to grab the entire community by the balls. Regardless, you will scoff and laugh, and by the time something that YOU care about is under threat, it will be far, far too late for you to do anything about it, and in the end, those who were right all along will never be given credit for their futile efforts to stop this coming crisis.

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and the code to do that would have less lines than this thread

You wouldn't be competing with their efforts. They can't stop you from using your version that disables vsync. If you don't have money to pay for a server to host the code then sign up for github or gitlab or sourceforge or any other free code hosting service.

>by the time something that YOU care about is under threat, it will be far, far too late for you to do anything about it
But I already have forked tons of free and open source software, sometimes years after it was written, once it's out there the code never stops being free.

>a coming crisis that I won't be able to play quake with screen tearing
Can you please go back to /v/?

>They can't stop you from using your version that disables vsync.
There is no way to do this. It is a fundamental problem with how Wayland is designed. The only way to "fix" it is to write an entire new display server from scratch and convince people to use and support it, which is infeasible for any random fucker on this board to do with our lack of resources, even collectively.
>Can you please go back to /v/?
No. Suck my dick. You can pull the muh gaymez are 4 childrens card all you want, but might I remind you that Quake is free software and objectivley has a place on this board by nature.

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>>a coming crisis that I won't be able to play quake with screen tearing
>Can you please go back to /v/?
You shut the fuck up.

>There is no way to do this.
Can't it be done just like it was done on Windows? I remember a video from a Wayland developer talking about a presentation layer or direct-whatever technique to avoid all latency. Honestly can a Wayland dev make a blog post about this so we can all have an answer? I know they at least lurk here

No it isn't. You could easily hack weston to do this but you won't because you know it would be stupid and not actually result in better experience. BTW individual people have written wayland compositors from scratch. Go search around, it's not infeasible.

No. "Gamers" don't belong here. You are the whiniest bunch of tech illiterate shitbags. See OP who is still making excuses here for why he can't actually write a line of code to save his life and wants everyone to fix everything for him.

>No. "Gamers" don't belong here. You are the whiniest bunch of tech illiterate shitbags. See OP who is still making excuses here for why he can't actually write a line of code to save his life and wants everyone to fix everything for him.
I'm not asking anyone to "fix" anything for me. I'm trying to prevent elite super haxx0rz like you from breaking things that currently work.

Nothing has been broken. You can still install bloated X11 all you want.

>You can still install bloated X11 all you want.
You forgot the little asterisk there that is supposed to say "until everything stops supporting it"

Eat shit.

they should realy make a compatibility layer for X under Wayland
perhaps it could be named XWayland
but like quasimodo said naming is the only hard thing in computer science XDDD

Xwayland just subjugates X things into the problems of Wayland. This does not solve the vsync issue.

Then you can port those applications back to X11. In before another excuse as to why you can't do this.

Crying about it won't solve your issue either

>In before another excuse as to why you can't do this.
Okay shill. Let's ignore the fact that this would require millions of dollars to accomplish as we are competing with multinational corporations. This kind of shit is what Linux sought to AVOID in the computing world, now look what has become of it.

Have you ever cum, but like, didnt stop shaking your hand? I heard girls can make cum more than one time but boys can only do it once so i tried it by not stopping and i did it fuck you girls lol it was weird tho nothing came out but i still shid a little bit so i know it worked idk why Jow Forums keeps saying its not possible it totally is. Any advice for how i make the cum on the second go tho i wanna be like those guys on the newground games

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How exactly are you competing with someone by forking an open source project for your own purposes? You do know that two forks can peacefully co-exist at the same time right?

you know its fud when they ignore valid replies and ask the same thing again

>You do know that two forks can peacefully co-exist at the same time right?
Tell that to all the Firefox forks that tried to fix the problems in Firefox. At the end of the day, evil won. Firfox is just totally not Chrome now, and the only real hard fork alternative is Palemoon, a browser run by an egotistical furry that can't do anything right. If you believe something such as this would end up any differently truly you are a naive fool.

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first, you play fortnite

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This. Everyone please calm down.

Wayland isn't ready for prime time, but RedHat's promulgation of it is intended TO accelerate it towards prime time faster (i.e., than a glacial creep across the last ten years).

It's embarrassing catastrophising to live in fear of a future whose major distros force a compositor which no longer lets you

- screenshot,

- video capture,

- paste from clipboard,

- or even game with vsync off.

Relax, sweethearts. Everything will be fine.

Btw, I know some of the most legendary computer scientists in published research (they're faculty), and they, along with the majority of unfamous-but-still-great programmers I know, all game. ;)

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> Why would you want screen tearing?
If you have small screen updates, like when typing in a terminal, you can reduce latency by disabling vsync while very unlikely experiencing screen tearing because only one glyph is updated.

That seems like a good idea for embedded / mobile where power usage is a concern

>Forks can't work!
>Unless they do in which case I will refuse to use them because I don't like the author's github avatar!
Stop making excuses

>Then you can port those applications back to X11. In before another excuse as to why you can't do this
Good fucking lord the RedHat is strong today. This is fucking terrible.

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I'm using Wayland right now and not experiencing any perceivable latency.

I don't work for Red Hat. But I do like to point out that the OS and kernel you use already have tons of code that was paid for by Red Hat. And Intel, and IBM, and Google, and Facebook...

>I don't work for Red Hat
He does it for free!

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Even if you can not perceive it consciously you will be more tired and have more fatigue after a long typing/programming session.
read: pavelfatin.com/typing-with-pleasure/

>I-I don't work at RedHat!
>These corporations already own you look the other way!
Since you are trying to distract I will reiterate.
>Then you can port those applications back to X11. In before another excuse as to why you can't do this
How the fuck can a functioning human brain create this thought unironically. Good job.

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That method is unreliable and causes jitter and weird artifacts if any other application happens to be updating at the same time,

No I have a Jow Forums pass so technically I'm paying to post here.

>How can a functioning human brain think that other humans are capable of modifying open source code?
I don't know, why don't you think about that one for a while and then get back to me.

sloc

>No I have a Jow Forums pass so technically I'm paying to post here.
>he is so cheap that not only will he post for free, he will pay money out of his own pocket to shill for you faster than the competition
You can't make this shit up. Good job dude.

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>no, seriously: Linux is a kernel, and has nothing to do with choice.
It has, however, something to do with ethics in games journalism.

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There is this tool called grep, learn it.

Imagine being so retarded you shit for xorg all the time and when a replacement gets announced you all start to suddenly shill xorg. Jow Forums of Jow Forums is fucking pathetic. You are all just muh sookless miserable faggots. Complaining about bloat while defending xorg and shitty unusable hacks straight from 80' instead of newer technology. All of the arguments "against" wayland are nust muh games screen tearing on muh nvidard card. Fucking kill yourself retards.
>inb4 he does it for free
You are all currently shilling the mess that is X.org. Go back to your shitty BSD setup that theoretically is more lightweight and less bloat while actually having 0 meaningful features and technology stuck from 1969.
>inb4 no argooments lel
techinically speaking wayland is better than xorg by having a more readable code and by just doing the graphics locally and nothing more(instead of Xmess that handles graphics and input as a fucking server without even using encrypted connection).
>muh forced vsync daddya attacked me with a belt when I was a kid and now as a big boy my mental disease requires me that I must be able to change the vsync even tho that will make screen tear, which I humorously joke about in a XFCE threads
This board fucking sucks. Fucking /v/tards. If gnu/linux is too much for your peenut to comprehend go back and install windows 10 and play fortnite and Shit:GO.
Thank you for reading my blog

1980s tech was better

Nobody is shilling x.org. Wayland is being outed as the piece of garbage it is.

Get your facts straight, liar.

What a fucking retard. Of course your nostalgic shit brain thinks that 3 megakeks of RAM and processors of 8-16 addressing bits where better than 64GB of RAM(even more) 64 bits 32c 64t. Go back and watch 8 bit boomer on your "original IBM PC clone" from the trash can or best buy.

>look at me, I wrote a wall of text because I'm so angry that somebody has a different opinion than mine!

You could be fixing the vsync issue right now, but instead you look for more ways to call me a shill even though that makes no sense.

Wayland is a protocol. The issue is with your compositor.

>refactor all X programs with grep
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>haha I'm totally not shilling x.org
>also wayland is poopoo peepee
>I also present no alternative
Nice fucking attempt as basic psychology faggot
>Look at me, I'm a faggot that thinks he's superior of somebody that types long text with anger on a chinese shanghai contract electronics manufacturing board, unlike me, that I type long segmented texts with anger on a chinese shanghai electronics manufacturment board.

32core cpus are a meme

Why does your pea sized brain not comprehend that people dislike X.org AND Wayland at the same time?

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You weren't even born in that decade.

as are "retro" computers as main in 3019 - 100*10

Yes, you can do that. Go start now. Once you've done the first one the rest become much easier.

So, legitimately, whats wrong with vsync?

Causes screen tearing and display of incorrect frames. OP is implying it's necessary to have low latency applications which is false.

nothing. Jow Forums is fucking contrarian again.
>boohoo xorg is the most used and only graphics server for linex it sucks
>woah woah xorg is getting a replacement that is less bloated and shitcoded than xorg, that will now receive more development?
>boohooo wayland is bad an gay booh redhat booh standards booh feet are real measuring unit unlike metres
>boohoo I also hate xorg boohoo 1980 mainframes where better

>U DON'T LIKE BOTNET IN UR CPU????
>MAEK UR OWN CPU K THX BYE XD
>chekmate atheis btfo

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>make your own cpu
>implying that is not an achievement that will eventually give you money and power
>impling your botnet-free cpu won't be shilled on Jow Forums
classic fatmerican consumerist thinking

You should make your own CPU. Intel clearly is not going to remove the botnets any time soon so you can either do nothing about it or you can take action.

>don't like totalitarian society?
>go make your own society in the woods xd
>checkmate btfo have sex take meds dilate
We did it reddit.

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You should absolutely make your own society in the woods if that's what you aspire to.

k

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SSSSSSSSSSSSSSLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

That man did not make his own society in the woods.

Why the X.org hate?
I don't even use compositor and have no tearing, because I use .

It's fast, it's customizable and, achieve all, it actually works.

Unlike Wayland I can choose my:
>Keyboard daemon
>Screenshooter
>Compositor
>WM
>and more

I can also work without dbus, systemd, compositor, pulse and so on without any issues. AND I can use WM I actually like (BSPWM). AND every last setting is not in the fucking compositor's conf.

As much as is possible.

Papa Ted was right

I get ZERO screen tearing on X with nvidia force composition pipeline.

Wayland has literally no benefit to the average user whatsoever.

No, he didn't even try. A society involves multiple people. Living out in the woods alone is not a society.

>Either fuck off or write your own compositor
Gee, how shocking to skim another wayland and see same retard 20-year-old try to defend wayland & write your own wayland-specific fix if you don't like it like that's the available choices.

You're wrong, kiddo. X exists whether your brain is able to comprehend that fact or not. I don't need to fix your silly wayland's flaws or write any garbage for it, I already have something which actually works.

It's interesting that I see the same kind of flawed logic from GNOME developers all the time, "join our toxic environment and write some improvement for it if you don't like it". Nope, I don't need to do that, I've got Xfce and it works just fine. And btw, Xfce won't be coming to Wayland.

If you want to have the advantages of wayland then yes, you need to put in some effort to adapt your workflow to it, this is true of anything. If you don't see any advantages then stick with bloated old Xorg, nobody cares if you do that.
XFCE already works in Wayland because of GTK3. Xfwm won't work but any other compositor can be used.

dude vsync is great if its properly implemented
os x has been doing this from the beginning

I said it's as good as it's gonna get now, too many retards like you around who love getting rammed up the ass by totalitarian faggots. But I won't let my memes be dreams. I'll send you a care package when I get set up out there.

>why exactly that is
Because you need to get more than 60 fps for screen tearing.

Year of linux would be upon us if you fat retarded fucks could give up on ancient shit. Go cry on your crt monitor or old thinkpad

>xfway is a Wayland compositor inspired by xfwm4:
>github.com/adlocode/xfway
>I'm not sure if this is an actual attempt at a port or more of a spin-off project a la Sway, but here it is, and I just wondered if you would like to have a look at it.
>It supports the wlr-foreign-toplevel protocol, which can be used for window management functions, and the wlr-layer-shell protocol, which can be used for creating panels etc.
>At the moment it's little more than a Weston clone with some wlroots support, but there you go.

>love getting rammed up the ass by totalitarian faggots
But I don't love that which is why I currently live out in the woods, with my wife and children and with like minded neighbors. We have a good community and we don't send bombs to people. Why is your dream to copycat some schizo faggot who couldn't even secure himself a female?

Ever play Zork, son?

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Yeah, keep larping.

Xfwm is the best part about Xfce4 though.