There is a huge shortage of Software Engineers

Well they mean good ones obviously

>India
>Software Engineers

what positions are you applying for
what language

The job market is saturated, yes, but mostly by low-average skilled workers. There is a shortage of GOOD programmers. Do you think a company like this will just hire anyone?

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nah youre just retarded

When they say "shortage" it means they can't find people with years of experience willing to settle for entry level wages.
I've seen programming gigs that pay less than $15 an hour, I could flip burgers in california for that much, and with far fewer responsibilities too.
They did the same to commercial trucking, "OHHH THERE'S A SHORTAGE".
Meanwhile, you can't even park at any truck stop because they're perpetually full at night and the federal government still requires you to sleep for 8 hours or you're breaking the law, also you can't park just park on the freeway, that's illegal too.

The day you can't fill a programming job, no matter how high the salary, is the day you have a true shortage of programming talent.

Define what "good programmers" even means. Someone that went to a top tier university in California?

>Shortage of [good] software engineers.

I've worked in IT for close to 14 years and I can count on 1 hand the number of good developers I've come across.

Same for ops and network people. Network people who know their stuff are even more reare.

There are a lot of cringy articles/Linkedin posts about what it means to be a good programmer but the general idea is:

>he has the ability to take vague business/research/non-technical requirements, turn those vague requirements into achievable goals on a reasonable timeline, and translate those goals into sustainable code.

The rest depends on the guy's talent and work ethic.

I've applied across all of the midwest, and most major Eastern/Southern metros, Atlanta, NYC, Philly, Austin, Chicago, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Boston. I've applied for a lot of jobs in smaller and medium-sized cities in between. I'm a recent graduate with 2 internships under my belt, one that was a around a year long. This was during my senior year. I graduated in May with my BS in Computer Science from a typical state school. I have listed on my resume that I am open to relocation.

I'm applying to jobs that use, and have knowledge of Python, Java, Javascript, HTML5/CSS, Elixir, Clojure, Docker, Nginx, GNU/Linux, SQL (Oracle, Mysql, Postgres), Bootstrap, etc. I have a normal portfolio site that has several project examples from school and personal projects.

All this is to say, I have done everything right the way every fucking memester online and in person has told me how to do things. I have pursued my interest to the fullest degree, and I have gotten a handful of responses out of it. While I was in a phone interview yesterday the inhouse recruiter told me that the position I was applying for was getting 8 to 10 applications EVERY DAY. That is the type of volume these people are dealing with, and yet still they claim that there is a shortage because they want everyone to be a 10/10 senior developer.

THE MARKET IS SATURATED.

>push down prices on programmers
>by saying there is more demand than supply
No wonder nobody wants to employ you.

No experience with C++ or core architecture I see
No small wonder you are getting shart on

Were you not able to convert your internship into a full-time offer? That's usually the best course of action for junior SWEs these days. Unless you're an MIT graduate who can literally walk on water.

>lists 5 paragraphs of requirements and multiple years of experience for entry level position
>pays no better than waiting tables
>replaces you with H1Bs or just ships the job to india directly
>cuts your budget, hires another HR
>no you can't work from home, we have to be able to hold in person meetings
>schedules a 2 hour in person meeting about why productivity is down

I suspect good employers and good programmers eventually find each other and then disappear from the market, but the crap codemonkeys and aggravating twat managerial types are constantly fucking things up for themselves and create a rotating system of fuckups.
The employers see the high turnover and inability to hire someone competent who can actually get the job done and thing "There just aren't enough engineers, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel here"
While the employees move from shit company to shit company, maybe eventually finding one of the rare good employers and settling in, but more likely just moving to the next shit job, working there for a couple years before either getting fired or deciding to move on again, and they fill up all the "entry level" job openings because they have 5x as much experience and a fatter resume.

You should have applied for jobs that require micro-coding but I said too much.
TI for instance

How did you work as an intern for a year and not get hired? I'm calling bullshit on this

Can't remember exactly at what point the gov starts calling it a shortage, but I think it was something like 5 people applying per position and the job sector qualifies it as a massive shortage of workforce.
Shortage nowadays means nothing more than companies having to settle for one of the 5 people applying for their positions and potentially having to pay above the absolute minimum salary.
It sure as hell doesn't mean there's insufficient workforce. That definition only applies to super specialized niche fields.

I actually took two years of AP Programming in HS all of which was done in C++. At Uni I recently took a course that was x86 assembly and C. I leave them off my resume because I'm not interested in, or applying to embedded jobs since most of them ask for EE experience that I don't have. I've recently gotten interested in Rust. Oddly enough I just got an in person interview at a place that needs C programmers for their backend.

The pay was under what is reasonable for the market and I didn't want to waste my time getting ripped off. It is fine IMHO to get ripped off at underpay for a internship but trying to hire me on at that piddly rate was not acceptable.

Almost nobody understands this though. Fucking nobody. Everyone thinks software devs are like construction workers, when they're (supposed to be) more like business/process analysts who happen to know how to automate everything they come across to an absurd degree, and have their implementation be whole and maintainable. Usually this is called engineering, but the number of programmers who truly think their job is to be a construction worker (code monkeys) totally ruins it for the good ones.

lmao nobody ever wans a junior for anything because they're universally, and I do mean universally shit, and once they're not shit you can guarantee they're jumping ship. That's why you intern, so they aren't taking an enormous risk on a n00b. See: you should have been hired.

AIoT ("the Artificial Intelligence of Things") is a new one to me. Maybe they're having trouble finding employees because no AI researchers are interested in building AI spybots to fill the world's houses for craven profiteers.

Great counter argument, you mong.

Again, most anons don't even know what software engineering is.
Yes, there is a shortage of software engineers because no one knows how to actually create software.
Software engineering is not software development.

>nobody ever wans a junior for anything because they're universally, and I do mean universally shit

Then why in the ever loving fuck do people post job listings for Junior Software Developer positions if they are such universal shit? Why would they do that if that isn't what they are looking for?

That's closer to software engineering.
Programmers are still "construction workers" if they are hired to be programmers. If you model, design and create processes/methods for software then you are probably an engineer. You do this shit so the programmers can know what to do without fucking everything up, and if they do you can easily show them what they did wrong.

>Then why in the ever loving fuck do people post job listings for Junior Software Developer positions if they are such universal shit? Why would they do that if that isn't what they are looking for?
They do? I don't think I ever saw an entry level position that doesn't require Senior Dev.

> Everyone thinks software devs are like construction workers
This, no idea where the fuck people got this idea in the first place. I don't see any mechanical engineering graduate going for a blue collar job, guess SW engineering is full of retards that see it as a programming school

This depends heavily on your country. If I leave my current job I can get another for the same pay next week.

>european programmer with a education
>first job was in the biggest tech company in my country
>can do lots of lateral movement depending on what tech i want to work with
>get 2-3 "feeler" e-mails a month to see if im looking to move or start a new job somewhere else
Being a software developer is great

That's because Microsoft's standards are too high, they should take notes from Apple.

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> Define what "good programmers" even means.
Someone whose knowledge doesn't only consist of some programming languages and frameworks.

>apply for jobs
>no response
>...
>land a job
>get linkedin messages every couple weeks from recruiters, even though I explicitly state that I'm not looking for a job

Hmm. I guess companies are afraid of taking a chance, and above all..they fucking HATE having to train people on their own. Also my company refuses to hire young people (I lucked out), then they turn around and complaint about the lack of talent. Honk honk.

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Some tard companies post junior ads but that's not what they really want, and people with two to five years of experience will apply and totally knock you off the list. Those people are probably incompetent, but managers see the experience line item and they're instantly worth more than you.

There is no difference between software engineer and programmer on the US job market. Companies call it whatever they want, and people with no engineering skill run around claiming to be one because their job title at CodeMonkey Inc. was "Software Engineer". My current title is "Software Developer" because we don't have a title for engineer, or even senior developer. Just junior and competent. Guess what my actual job is? It's engineering.
>You do this shit so the programmers can know what to do without fucking everything up
This used to be called "Software Architect", but they got a really bad rap (somewhat justifiably) for being retarded narcissists who couldn't design squat and would bike shed themselves into oblivion, wasting everyone's time in pointless meetings.

>SW engineering is full of retards that see it as a programming school
It's full of retards who see it as money printing school because that's what everyone keeps telling them. They have no passion for the engineering or the art, so they learn the bare minimum to squeak by.

So basically the entire technical side of the business and 95% of the work? Let me guess the other guy will supply the ideas and not be able to guarantee funding.

Cope.

i think what he meant to say is that ((they)) lie to mislead future students in order to make them sign up for CS which in turn leads to an abundance of software devs who push down the salaries.

but in reality most software engineers are just garbage.

>no low-level backend-suitable languages that are genuinely in demand
>only memeshit on the resume, employable in-demand skills purposefully removed
>tHe MaRkEt Is SaTuRaTeD

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It's true though. You know the devs making $160k? They're usually not autists writing sorting algorithms. They're businesspeople who can crank out software to meet business cases.

>tfw only chance of making it is channeling all my self loathing and angst into 12 hours of obsessive study per day
Anyone know this feel

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/thread

How do I become a Software Engineer and not just a Programmer/Developer?

If you went to university you'd know this is just standard computer science

I know you are are just meming but for anyone that is reading and following along. I applied to 400 places with recent job listings, that matched both the languages that I have on my resume, and were relevant to my skill level.

The fact that someone seems to think that I should learn a more niche skill, proves my point that mid-level devs with average experience are saturated positions.

YIKES

>barely a fraction
I can see you didn't pass your math classes

sorry, we've chosen to go forward with another candidate

Try again faggot, I had a 3.52 GPA and a Mathematics minor.

What do you mean: channeling self loathing into obsessive studying is standard computer science or most interviews are standard comp sci?

I do go to university. A pretty decent one actually. My standard for making it is Two Sigma/Jane Street/Google/Amazon though.

OY VEY THE GOYIM KNOW

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>Also my company refuses to hire young people (I lucked out)
Allow me to rephrase that. They refuse to hire young technical personnel. We have a few young Sales&Marketing studs, and they all have fancy 4k monitors and glass desks, while us technical folk are crowded on long shared desks in the back, with "hip" art pieces and fucking toys. Their reasoning? Sales dept. is at the front of the company and needs to look good because they are the face of the company...even though a lot of them are out visiting clients most of the day. We get old HP LCDs as our 2nd monitors.

No, I'm not fucking seething. What gave you that impression?

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I mean the high workload. There is always something to read and study. I'm doing my MSc in CS and I average like 60 hours a week put into it, because, as my cousin puts it, who's gonna know all these tech details if not you, the developer? So good luck, don't abuse caffeine too much

After you get 1-2 years of exp, gtfo out of retarded agencies like that

this. this is just an excuse to get more H1Bs and lower the price of labor.

thats because doesnt matter how much pay, no one want to be an incel loser nerd cuck

>>India
>>Software Engineers
More like software enniggers, amirite?

>The pay was under what is reasonable for the market
what, and more importantly, where

>applies for mid-level with a BS and 1-year exp as intern

You do know that most of these postings are just for show, right?
They don't actually intend to hire anyone from these postings.

> Shortage of software engineers
TFW I'm a code ninja :(

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>trans: There is a huge shortage of American software engineers who can't be threatened with deportation to work 10 hours a day with 24/7 on-call for poverty wages

Microsoft is literally the whitest tech company.

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>Barely a fraction.
That could mean anything from 1 to 400.
I wouldn't hire you either, based on that shit alone.

>asians
>3% of pop
>30% of tech

>in the united states
MS does most of its development overseas, desu, senpai.

I have how Indians get lumped in with real Asians.

Wrong.

and:
>100% of getting fucked over the most by affirmative action, while making the least noise about it
Based humble gookbros

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>latinx
I get so triggered over this SJW word.

They sure do

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this is exactly why I didn't even bothered with software engineering (that and because I find programming boring as fuck)

it's easier to get a job for hardware engineering or networking, software engineering is hard if you don't live on the right places

hope you get a good job soon, user

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That second point is way more important.

Most of Jow Forums NEETs could have a job if they fixed two things:

1) Thinking that the technology discussed here is used in the real world. No, Haskell won't land you a job. C# and Java will.
2) Their social retardness. You need friends and social gatherings once in a while to "practice" your social skills. If you don't know how to behave in social situations you won't get past interviews. Seek professional help if you're too socially retarded.

I recommend leaving Jow Forums until you get a job. This place is poison for the mind.

Employed Haskell programmer here.

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>inb4 charity grant to write haskell documentation

that's not true. also anybody who applies to a software eng/ programming job via CV is a retard

>The market is completely saturated beyond belief.
No, it definitively isn't.
>I literally just applied to nearly 400 jobs in the past month. You know how many emailed me back to do a phone interview? Barely a fraction
You're autistic.

>we only hire the best
>we won't pay above market salary
Every company "only hires the best" user, until you start talking about salary. "The best" are going to be paid well above average, so it's pure doublethink.

you're probably ugly, sorry

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>implying you will remember any of that

>we are looking for ways to lower your wages
gotcha

and you're a heroin junkie

Jow Forums is still too beta to get passed the HR lady.

>There is a huge shortage of wagecucks

There, fixed that.

I think what he means is there is a shortage of software engineers who are both competent and willing to work for slave wages

Then fucking give me a fucking job you dumb cunts. Oh right, I don't have 70 years of experience.

>not learning COBOL and cruising on Boomer banks mainframes for the next 50 years

Cobol will never go away, everyone is scared shitless of replacing it

How's that positive discrimination affirmative action employment drive working for you, Microsoft?

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this. I'm super young but I'm surrounded by mediocrity. People like me job hop every 9 months because its the only way to get paid more than the average bums around you, since you aren't compensated well until you weigh your options. Managers see people like me leaving, and are stuck with pajeet and pajeeta with bachelor degrees from new Delhi potato university.

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you're joking but people literally hire other people over their looks. I was sat down by a manager and he told me which potential female intern I liked better once.

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It's likely you're shit to be honest mate

Because the only want to hire poos and trannies.