/fbsdt/ - Friendly BSD Thread

based and freedompilled

You should try either openbsd or netbsd in a VM, play around with it and try to learn the basics before installing. Iv been an archfag for about 10 years now and while it was a great OS at first i wish i would have learned BSD first instead

Okay. I tried ubuntu and it was comfy. Will try those!

ubuntu is an ok distro if you dont know anything about linux and you want things to ""just werk"" but really you arent going to learn very much by using it. unironically gentoo is a pretty good OS if you want to actually learn how linux works. whichever way you go im sure once you start to figure things out youll be much happier than with windows

FLOSS movement is cancer, proprietary software is why the world has so so advanced tech. Any attempt at "free" technology based on 4 principles is a direct attack at our current means of development and research

Free software (not freeware) should be punishable by death, you cant prove me wrong

Attached: 1446982205130.gif (113x170, 102K)

>Free software (not freeware) should be punishable by death, you cant prove me wrong

you cant prove yourself right, either. infact you are the one making the claims, so the burden on proof is on you

Large companies have been using and supporting open source software since the beginning. The original Unix was shared on tapes. There's nothing wrong with free or proprietary software as long as they're open source and they allow users to modify and redistribute the code. I wouldn't mind paying Apple for the source code to iOS, for example.

I intend to learn how to program and to be good. I only have a small amount of experience with JS, HTML and Css.

What exactly do you mean learn how linux works? I understand how ubuntu just werks but I tried openbsd and I probably will have to watch a few videos! Is there a lot of programming involved in some distros? What makes ubuntu okay instead of good in your opinion?

Apologies for my lack of knowledge.

>I might try a virtual machine and try a few out I am new to this though(if it doesn't make sense).
This is what you should do.
Try and experience them and install whichever feels more comfortable and has the programs/versions you need.

cio.com/article/3112582/linus-torvalds-says-gpl-was-defining-factor-in-linuxs-success.html

Looking away when GPL violations happened contributed a lot too (a lot of people argue that proprietary kernel modules, especially wifi, GSM, bluetooth, graphics "drivers" in Android devices are violating the GPL).

Wonder how things will change if Goolag finishes their permissive licensed kernel (Fuchsia) and ditch Linux for good and phone devs start to make their proprietary drivers and undocumented changes 100% legal.

What's the KVM equivalent for BSD/to go VM solution on BSD?
Considering the often praised security features of (Open-)BSD I thought about setting one system up as backbone for my new lab.

Attached: IMG-20190710-WA0009.jpg (720x881, 51K)

Not reading between the lines when chinks would rather violate the GPL while patiently waiting years for fuschia than use shit BSD software which is legally cuckable.

bhyve

OpenBSD works better, is easier to set up and administer, and upgrades don't fail for weird reasons like they do on Linux.

Linux is dead.

can someone spoon feed me some info on BSD?

>does it have BASH ?
>are installs handled through a repository?
>what are professional use cases of BSD?
>Why should I use it over a linux distro(besides not wanted to deal with all the weird fuckos now ingrained in the linux community.)

Attached: 1541032522245.jpg (1280x1795, 638K)

>>does it have BASH ?
Yes but it's not the default shell. You can install it from the repos.
>>are installs handled through a repository?
Yes. If you've used apt via the command line you'll be able to handle pkg just as easily.
>>what are professional use cases of BSD?
Playstations run FreeBSD. OpenBSD runs on some routers I think.
>>Why should I use it over a linux distro(besides not wanted to deal with all the weird fuckos now ingrained in the linux community.)
It's just a cleaner experience in my opinion. You get most of the same software with a lot less bloat and it's just easier to manage. With FreeBSD you get ZFS. NetBSD runs on literally anything.

thanks dude. I wanted to start fucking around more with programming and shit.

does BSD have VM software?

Do you have an opinion on openbsd vs. Freebsd?

>does BSD have VM software?
FreeBSD have bhyve OpenBSD has vmm

>Do you have an opinion on openbsd vs. Freebsd?
FreeBSD ports are pain and always fucking broken. OpenBSD just werks granted that if your hardware supports it. Chances are it wont. If it does it just works. My personal opinion is meh whatever suits your need I run them both.

OpenBSD is research operating system. it's not meant for daily use. Even devs don't use it as their main OS.

It's filesystem is extremely slow and unreliable. I would never save important data on an UFS-filesystem.

It lacks proper SMP-support and is extremely slow OS to use even on a modern system. Memory handling is also very bad and things like browsers often just freeze.

Do you not feel shame for lying?

it's behind openbsd in gpu support and doesn't have the amdgpu driver yet

I have heard that OpenBSD is the most secure operating system around, and I would like to become proficient in it.

I have heard it's painfull as a desktop OS daily driver, but I would still like to try it if its possible. I have some basic needs I'd like it to fulfull such as web browsing and libreoffice.
I have found libreoffice at cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/packages/amd64/ so thats cool, but I normally use waterfox(for https everywhere, ublock origin, umatrix) but I haven't found anything about it for openbsd.

I saw that wine is non functional due to OpenBSD having no 32bit support, so I can accept that going in, I have more than one computer if I MUST do something in wine or linux or windows.

Question 1: If I bought a new ryzen cpu+mobo when they come out, can I expect OpenBSD to install and function on it; Or do I need to keep an eye out for specific hardware?

Anything else I should consider while contemplating this?

It's devs won't shut up about how I should be running current instead of release, the whole bsd crowd builds their operating systems because they simply cannot stand linux/windows, whats the point in making up lies or spreading unverified falsities my dude?

In what ways is it better than Linux in a programming environment?

Also, which is better: FreeBSD or OpenBSD?

please no wanblows and loonux BTFO replies.

What's the difference between BSD and any regular linux distro? What (if anything) makes it better/worse?

Unfortunately all operating systems balance the "what it is designed for and what the user wants out of it". I say unfortunately for two reasons; one is because it means the operating system never reaches full potential and two because you're not gonna like where OpenBSD sits on that scale. OpenBSD is very much a "ourway or the highway" style of operating system, they dropped 32bit support in such a way very early on because the dev team just didn't want to spend the next 10 years developing subpar 32bit/64bit compatibility and wanted either good coded 32bit practices OR good coded 64bit practices. Everything to do with OpenBSD development is about being the best, sometimes that means being modern or user friendly, most of the time it means building httpd/libressl from scratch and telling people who still want to run sshv1 to fuck right off. If you want to like OpenBSD, read then re-read their faq, if you're thinking "this has nothing to do with what I want from OpenBSD" you either make what you want from openbsd as a dev or run for the hills. It doesn't get easier, you just need to get better at C libraries.

I don't give a shit about BSD. Not a single shit!

>it's behind openbsd in gpu support and doesn't have the amdgpu driver yet
It's in current for many cards. Also, I thought the OpenBSD devs said they were never going to implement AMDGPU because it was too big? Maybe they changed it, but I do know that OpenBSD will never have WINE by design, and that's a dealbreaker for me.

>Even devs don't use it as their main OS.
This is blatantly fucking wrong. You have absolutely no idea what the fuck you're talking about unless of course, you meant to say FreeBSD, which holds true. Everything else you said is 100% accurate, but make no mistake, the OpenBSD devs actually use OpenBSD and it's really good for certain things.

Whenever the openbsd guys say "never" it's usually because there's a minor flame war going on and they're in ideological mode for the time being, iirc they actually intend to support all hardware that provides open source code so long as they can audit that code in a reasnoble timeframe, with amdgpu thats a problem because amdgpu is longer than the rest of openbsd in terms of lines of code.

Even if they were to solve the AMDGPU issue (you know, the best thing to happen to graphics drivers in history) there's still the problem that there's no Linux compat layer (they used to have one and got rid of it) and it will NEVER have WINE and that's by design. OpenBSD is NOT for games, and frankly, I'm fine with that, it's really good at doing what it does, but I don't need it personally.

>amdgpu
>the best thing to happen to graphics drivers in history
what the fuck are you basing this on? The fact your new AMD cards actually got linux support for once? Bruh going from trash heap linux driver support on cards newer than two years old to barely competitive to NVIDIA proprietary drivers is a failure in my book, they haven't touched CUDAs control over image processing either. amdgpu is a good thing in many ways, but the best thing to happen is you talking about the miracle of birth like a fucking boomer.

i know it is meant for servers but I would still like to have it running in front of me so I can fuck with it on iron.

I pretty sure linux graphics drivers don't receive security audits.

>Bruh going from trash heap linux driver support on cards newer than two years old to barely competitive to NVIDIA proprietary drivers is a failure in my book
Actual fucking fake news right here. What the fuck are you smoking? I got substantially better frames on a WORSE AMD card than the Nvidia card i use to use when I upgraded.

Finally! A BSD thread!

This. I'm tired of the exclusive generals.

linux has a gui installer, doesn't look like it was made in 1950 and doesn't disable hyperthreading

"The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System" is a highly technical book, I recommend linking something simpler like "Absolute FreeBSD" instead because most of the autists at Jow Forums don't know shit about kernels and OS design.

install dragonfly, friends.

>GUI
>doesn't look like
>doesn't disable hyperthreading
Oh. My. God.
Is this the sort of retards that this board is filled with?

FreeBSD has all of these AFAIK.

FreeBSD is developed by retards (I'm not even talking about their buttfuck retarded political views when I say this like everyone else does) who use Macbooks and don't even run their OS outside of testing in a VM. It's slowly slipping as a project while NetBSD is finally solving most of it's longtime problems and I'm really happy because people haven't given it very much credit as a daily driver for a long time.

netbsd btfo

Attached: netbsd.png (1962x836, 138K)

FreeBSD and HardenedBSD have bhyve
OpenBSD has vmd
NetBSD has HAXM and Xen, it's also going to get a shiny and powerful hypervisor in NetBSD 9.0 that's called "NVMM".
DragonflyBSD has virtual kernels (lets you run a complete kernel in userspace), I don't know if it has other hypervisors though.

Does anyone here know about the security status of DragonflyBSD? Does it have ASLR? Is the base system compiled with PIE?

Their security seems interesting, the have their own implementations of mail and NTP, they have ASLR, they have LibreSSL instead of OpenSSL.
They even have Wayland!

Matthew Dillon is a literal fucking genius, he did extremely impressive stuff with kernels, virtualization, file systems, SMP and CPU design.
Yet Jow Forums idiots talk all the time about a schizophrenic programmer who created a shit operating system (TempleOS) because he threw some rants on Youtube.

>They even have Wayland!
You say that like it's a good thing.

It is a good thing.
Wayland is extremely small and efficient, it does one thing and it does it well, unlike X11 which is an extremely bloated and complicated mess that used to have a scary amount of features.
In fact, I'd argue that Wayland is more compliant with the Unix philosophy than X11.

Wayland is more security-focused than X11 as well, window clients can't access the input of other windows now (i.e. no keylogging).

>Wayland is extremely small
No it's not
> it does one thing and it does it well
If that one thing is to force you to use vsync then it can go fuck itself
>unlike X11 which is an extremely bloated and complicated mess that used to have a scary amount of features.
And there is no replacement for it. And no, Gayland is not a replacement for Xorg. Wayland niggers need to put a fucking bullet in their heads, I'm so tired of this shilling every goddamn day. Call me when it has a single good fucking window manager.

>No it's not
It is, most of the extra crap is handled by the compositor instead (i.e. handled by the window manager).
>force you to use vsync
AFAIK it's going to be optional.
>Wayland niggers need to put a fucking bullet in their heads
Why are you so angry about Wayland? It's optional in all operating systems. If you don't like it, don't use it.
>single good fucking windows manager
Sure: Sway, Way-cooler, KWin, Mutter, etc...

netflix uses freebsd for video delivery IIRC

>AFAIK it's going to be optional.
No it's not. We've had this thread every day for a month now. It's a fundamental flaw with Wayland that will never be solved.
>Why are you so angry about Wayland?
It's not a replacement for Xorg. It's even worse than Xorg in many ways.
>It's optional in all operating systems. If you don't like it, don't use it.
SystemD is optional too. See how that turned out for linux users.
>Sure: Sway, Way-cooler, KWin, Mutter, etc...
Yawn. Tell me when WindowMaker, FVWM, i3 or any *box WM gets a port.

>I saw that wine is non functional due to OpenBSD having no 32bit support
No, WINE is not unsupported because of 32bit support, it's unsupprted because it tries to map its own page 0, which is a security risk.
>Question 1: If I bought a new ryzen cpu+mobo when they come out, can I expect OpenBSD to install and function on it; Or do I need to keep an eye out for specific hardware?
Ryzen CPUs should work fine.
>Anything else I should consider while contemplating this?
Newer AMD graphics card require the amdgpu driver, which is supported by OpenBSD but not enabled by default because it's still in the testing phase, in order to enable it, you need to compile your kernel (which isn't hard) or wait until it gets out of testing.

>What's the difference between BSD and any regular linux distro?
BSDs base install is developed as a whole, rather than throwing together GNU tools, linux kernel, systemd, wpa_supplicant etc

Obviously whatever you install on that is on you, but the base install should work and upgrade smoother

Does anyone else here feel disgusted by the GPL? I can't imagine the amount of hypocrisy and double thinking that one needs to implement in order to think that the GPL (especially the GPLv3) stands for freedom.
What's even more ironic is that Stallman has an organization that's called the "(((Free))) Software Foundation".

>In what ways is it better than Linux in a programming environment?
The programming experience is about the same if you're writing high-level code.
If you're writing C code, it's better because the C library in the BSDs is more POSIX-compliant than GNU tools, which ensures that your code is easier to port to other platforms like Linux.
>Also, which is better: FreeBSD or OpenBSD?
Depends on your usage.

>In what ways is it better than Linux in a programming environment?
Every BSD comes with a complete set of dev tools in the default install. They come with cc, make, ctags, yacc, and lex.
On Debian and some other distros, all those things are lacking in the default install. Fortunately some GNU/Linux distros are beginning to include those, but:
On the BSDs, every package includes the dev headers for things. This is unlike Debian again: on debian you'll have libfoobar and libfoobar-dev packages. Debian will only install libfoobar unless you specifically ask for the -dev package. And if you don't have the -dev package installed, all your compiles trying to use that library will fail. And there's no way to tell Debian (or other distros with similar package splitting) to install the -dev package for every package you already have.
BSDs are way better than most GNU/Linux distros for programming since most GNU/Linux distros are gimped in order to have smaller package sizes and smaller installation discs. Those installation discs end up being humongous anyway since they all come with GNOME or KDE, even if they don't come with a C compiler.
I remember I once encountered a GNU/Linux distro that didn't come with ed in the default install.

>I remember I once encountered a GNU/Linux distro that didn't come with ed in the default install.
IIRC, most Linux distros don't include ed (sometimes even vi!) in the base install anymore. On Gentoo for example, I had to install Busybox in order to get "ed" and "vi".

fuck off

finally a decent BSD thread, nobody wants you or your retarded corporate cocksucker GPL hatred (with no proofs or anything just GNU MAN BAD) here.

Does anyone here use DragonFlyBSD as a desktop? How's the experience?

Gentoo's a special example, I'd say. But that is insane it didn't come with a text editor.
But yeah, GNU/Linux distros that don't come with ed must be made by people who never program or script. ed is so useful for scripting the editing of text files. I've used it before to edit a shell script's "save file" of sorts, when one was necessary.

This is a *BSD thread, we can and will criticize the FSF and their policies however we want.
If you don't like that, fuck off out of this thread and go to your nearest GNU echo chamber thread.

Gentoo has nano for text editor in the stage3, then you can emerge whatever else you prefer.

I dislike FSF and GNU, but license discussions are so tiring. I'd rather talk about Unix, hence, talk about BSDs.
Why can't they fit nvi along with nano? That's so silly.

The FSF stands up for your rights even if that means using a free operating system that's essentially just whores its code base to proprietary applications because muh permissive licensing.

You BSD troglodytes need to understand that all that's left of the UNIX tradition is GNU/Linux with a bunch of rounding errors.

Sway is an i3 replacement for Wayland.

Since this is a *BSD thread:
-What BSD do you use?
-What feature do you like the most?

There is no community on BSD, only shills paid by CISCO and big corporations dedicated to spam against Linux, the Free Software Foundation and Stallman.

Fucking retard, only shills are against the GPL. The Free Software Foundation did all the hard work for all the open source community, only paid shill can spread FUD on the FSF.

Attached: fuck the cucks.jpg (400x405, 61K)

GNU tard having trouble coping, kek.
Unlike your schizophrenic delusions, we actually existed way before the FSF, and we will continue to exist after it dies.

Don't forget the DragonFly BSD Digest!
dragonflydigest.com/

It's kinda interesting how these morons annoy us all the time, yet they don't dare touching Windows threads like >>>/fwt/ despite *BSD being free software and Windows being proprietary.
It really shows us how these GNUtards don't actually care about free software and how they are threatened by *BSD. They, like all cult members, only care about people following their specific ideology (in this case, using their specific software).
On Windows, they can whine about how Windows is proprietary and garbage, on *BSD, these arguments don't apply, so they try to use petty arguments like "cucks" in order to deter people from using *BSD, and leaving their cult as a consequence.

not gonna make it

if a company releases a proprietary application that uses GPL'd code, they have to give away all the complete and corresponding source code to anyone who receives said application. the license is legally binding.

>BSD
Corporate slaves, go suck sony's cock

oh boo hoo i have to run apt install build-essential after a fresh installation if i'm setting up a dev vm

Exactly proves 's point.

me again, the -dev thing is a good point, i wish i knew of a solution to that

BSD brainlet. Internal enemies are much more harmful and dangerous than external. This is why every sane man is sick of your bullshit, you are parasites and saboteurs of the free software world.

>Internal enemies
>External enemies
>implying that the free software world revolves around the FSF
Spoken like a true cult member.

Holy shit, they already have their internal and external enemies, now they just need a building and a bunch of rituals to make it official.

Go suck Sony's cock, you corporate proxy. Maybe this time they will be kind enough to at least give you some cum so you won't starve to death.

Oh wait, but they don't care about you, so you have to depend on linux people instead and whine about how evil linux devs don't think about you poor bsd cucks and don't make their code portable to bsd systems. Oh those evil linux devs and those sweet sweet corporate cocks.

Keep being outraged, I won't degrade myself to the point where I reply to your poorly-structured name-calling salad. I'd rather laugh at your pettiness.

>I won't degrade myself to the point where I reply
>but I will degrade myself to the point where I have to beg Linux devs to write BSD code because my corporate masters don't care about me

Oh no I'm running Linux code! Let me check...
$ find /boot/*vmlinuz*
$
$ find /boot/*linux*
$
Hmmm... I can't find any Linux code, could it be that random troll on Jow Forums was lying?

you never lose any freedom, as you can always take the source of a bsd mit software and edit it as you wish. what you cant do is take the source of the proprietary software they mix bsd and mit code with once its closed. but the bsd. mit part will always be free and open source. no one can take the bsd and mit and close it. closed are the changes made to it
and if you dont like the closed parts, take the bsd, mit part of the code and edit it to have the things you want and make them free