No CS degree

Imagine spending 70k on a degree that you have no guarantee of being able to pay back.

But he won't ever have the privilege of setting foot in Facebook/Amazon/Netflix/Google or a prop shop.

That's why Windows are shit.

maybe if you go to a shit school.
I went to a state school that costs $8k a year and the average starting salary from my school among my classmates was like $80k

>wanting to get a job with trannies

Kek

Smoking math is really bad for you.

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>making literally millions of dollars a year (prop shop) is bad!!!

If you're so worried and frustrated, work hard and get a scholarship.

>state school that costs $8k a year

Do you mean high school or university?

>not having a life is good

>Go to bootcamp
>Get a programming job
>Take courses beside your job
>Be patient
>Finish degree
>Still in job
>Get promoted

7 billion IQ

they have a life, better life than we'll ever have
money buys you access to things you can't even imagine

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What else are you gonna do with your life? Loiter around and gossip with friends?

university. in-state tuition is

Going to a no name university is just as bad if not worse than being a high school dropout, it literally doesn't count in the eyes of any HR person went to an ivy league.

Just stop all this nonsense about jobs and become a NEET.

This, just give up and let the blonde drunkards and piss skins take over.

my school is nowhere close to an ivy, its just a decent state school and literally everyone got good jobs, with the top third of the class getting six figure jobs.

just dont go to a complete shit school that takes any retard with a 1000 SAT

This nonsense again. There are 8 ivy league universities and not every well paid job in America is staffed solely by their graduates there's too many jobs for that. And having every HR department staffed with ivy league grads is even more ridiculous.

I mean fine, don't go the University of Phoenix and get a masters degree in multi marketing and kite flying but there are plenty of decent state colleges to go to as well.

Is it really that hard to believe?
There's more graduates being shat out every year than there are job openings, employers can afford to be picky and suck up ONLY top tier graduates for far below market value to do clerical drudgery if it means they can interview and consider fewer people.

there aren't anywhere close to enough Ivy league graduates to fill all entry-level CS job openings, you dumbass.

you can't do math, we get it

This reminds me of a story I read yesterday saying graduates are training to be prison guards. The graduates they spoke to in the article had degrees in Theology, psychology and politics.

The kids love it.

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>not having more than a few hundred a month in savings because of rent is good!!!!!!!

So you make 200k a year in london? Lel in your dreams

The guy graduated top of his class at Cambridge. The hedge fund BEGGED him to come work for them. He probably got 200k as a signing bonus.

What the fuck is prop shop

Prolly updates legacy websites.

Who is that faggot because im assuming its not you

Not him.
But London pays a lot though.
But so are the living costs there.

Knew him when he was still doing his PhD. These people get the best jobs in London. The company he worked for paid on average 400k to their quants last year. Managers are probably over 7 figures.

Actually no, a lot more. I just checked her company filings. His pay is definitely in the millions.

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Is it possible to get a job and later on a degree?

You're so yesterday. FAANG leadership is over, it's time to bet on your fellow MAAN

It's called "CS degree", not "App Building degree" nor "PHP apps engineering".

Of course you don't need a CS degree to be a developer. There are plenty of resources online to build stuff "that works". But you probably do if you want to study computability, information theory, language theory, distributed algorithms, CPU design, graphics, etc.
Of course you could learn this on your own with the right books... But has anyone ever done it?

I didn't even go to a decent state school, just a fine one. Nothing fancy, there's better ones in my state but I'm starting out $75k working in the city I want at a good job. Just gotta have a good resume and everything. I had fun in college too so it was worth it. Life isn't all about working

> being french
> getting out of the absolute best engineering school in your country, arguably one of the most selective in the world
> you will never be able to make more than 45k€ if staying in France
> "$75k is bad"

Most of Europe is like that, with the exception of a few capital cities only.

I wouldn't advise working full-time while you study
also make sure your boss is good with you prioritising studying over work, because there are going to be nights where you're constantly researching and your internal clock will be all over the place
you'll also need to get used to taking your work home with you if you aren't already, which I'd imagine would be a pain
also you'll probably start to see more going out than coming in, so make sure your finances are in order because I've seen students go broke and have to work shitty bar jobs just to keep afloat, but had to work crappy hours that fucked with their studying
but once you're studying, it's best to continue studying until you get all the degrees that are relevant to you

Ecole Polytechnique?
There are a bunch of people from that school working in NYC at the top companies making bank

my goal is to get a comfy remote job that's based in london but can do from anywhere

That's brutal, why is europe so bad? I'm saying $75k is pretty decent, especially since the cost of living in my city is solid.

>Do you really need it?
no but you will be paid WAY less than what others are paid. i mean if you're fine with it then sure you don't need it but unless you're living in states there's absolutely no reason not to get a degree.

> PHP
> No degree
> Earns 15k
> Lives in a farm

vs.

> Literally any other language
> Degree
> $200k
> Live in a city like a chad

Sounds about right

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>why is europe so bad?
you can live pretty good on the cheap.

It's 15k a month not a year, that's about 180k a year which is fine considering code monkeys making about 60-80k

well, you sure didn't study at ivy league uni that's for sure.

>$75k is pretty decent
better than most, but still pretty shit
using income tax rates as a starting point, classes break down as
>Lower £12,500
>Lower-mid £31,250
>Middle £50,000
>Upper-mid £100,000 Upper £150,000
Most people can't get their kids into top-tier schools without earning near/close to that bracket.
It's only until money stops being an obstacle in the way of the bare necessities, before you can start to live any sort of quality of life

>this
plus imagine his quality of life, i bet he works remotely and on hours as when its suites him
wagies are stuck slowly dying in cagies while this nibba is conversing with NEETS about being comfy

>Most people can't get their kids into top-tier schools without earning near/close to that bracket.
Are you dumb? I'm just out of college at 22, I don't have kids and won't for awhile. Plus my kids can find their own way and the wife may contribute to the household income too. Maybe it's worse over in bongland with all your rapefugees and stupid speech laws

In the UK you only have to pay back student loans if you make more than 25k which you won't if you fail.

>Programmer in SEA
>50k a year
>But living costs are like 300 dollars a month
>I work on a beach with palm trees
>All the Ming Lee's want to fuck me

Shit ain't that bad bro's.
And Japan Korea HK are literally over the pond.

shools in the UK work a little bit differently
because schools are not allowed to be prejudice against poor people, they do the next best thing and only accept applicants from around the local area
it just so happens the local area extraordinarily posh
the whole thing about poor kids getting grants to study at posh schools is nothing more than a quota system where the schools can say
>we're not anti-poorfags
when in fact they are, they just have to suck it up and let one or two tramps in

k a year
which currency?

>but still pretty shit
if you're comparing to the chads who get into FAANG as their first job, sure.
Realistically speaking I'm a 22 year old with a luxury apartment in downtown of a low-medium CoL city, I'm pretty happy with where I am

converted to dollars.
In Malaysian ringgits it would be about 205.000 ringgits

>50k a year
>SEA
How the fuck? Remote work?

I'm nothing really know this expat guy from the Netherlands he makes 80.000 euros a year as a fullstack Spring developer.

Biggest wage i ever heard around for programmers at least.

I'm just asking if you work in SEA or if it's remote because I'm pretty sure that's in the 99th percentile. 80k euros a year is much crazier if you consider SEA cost of living. Literally living like a king at that point

Some people in london make 200k a year, regardless of if they ever post or know what Jow Forums is.

Yea i do fullstack work and IOT here and there i can work remote if its not needed to be in the office its a malaysian.

But you already life almost like a king with 30k - 35k a year.
Most expensive apartments are like 600 dollars.
Food and other utilities are cheap as fuck.

You save a lot up to go on expensive travels.

What's your point ? There are people who were highschool dropouts during the web 1.0 days who made handsome sums doing basic ass static html coding. Capitalizing on an emergent market isn't magic. If those people want to stay employed over the long term they will need to learn and study and work just like the rest of us. Aside from gym class I don't regret any of the time I spent studying in college.

no, however you can be
>be paid less
>harder time getting a job
>glass ceiling
>get put on worse projects
>coworkers who think less of you because you have no degree

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I just want to make it to $80k a year not living in fucking california. It's so shit people here are insane and house prices are still in the near millions.

I got a few interviews from California companies and got fucking BTFO, their technical interviews are ridiculously hard

fuck that I'm staying in flyover country with my comfy $80k salary and good cost of living

All these companies are dropping the cs degree requirement you dumbass

You don't NEED it but it helps to get you started. Also uni helps you to learn HOW to study and to synthesize things from what you've learned.
>e.g. the difference between your half-assed skimming through a wikipedia article vs actually knowing what you're talking about
>inb4 that's boolshit
For evidence what happens when you don't know the difference, look no further than this very board and website.

Yes to hire more Stacies not fucking incels dumbass.

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you mean IBM, banks and other old boys clubs won't give you a chance
Facebook/Amazon/Netflix/Google will gladly interview you

>All these companies are dropping the cs degree requirement you dumbass
Make that most software companies everywhere. You can even get a job in Zurich now without a degree, and there the base salary for pleb programmers is around $150k.

>recruiter
>ever having CS degree requirement
Talk about salty.

The real question is, do you really want to work for IBM, banks or Intel for that matter? I'm as greedy as they come and I'd rather jump off a roof than work for those companies.

>Recruiter

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How dumb to you have to be to think you need a CS degree to become a recruiter. They are doing the recruiting. They got sick of talking to CS incels dummy. They are the reason CS was dropped and will now only be interviewing Chads and Stacies and other brocoders for recruitment.

banks are easy as fuck to get into and pay six figures.

you just need to know some basic algorithms to get past a bank interview while you need to be an algorithms chad to get into FAANG

I know you've never been to a series of interviews for a technical position, let alone had a job, but just so you know, the HR thots just do a preliminary screening where they weed out people who were too autistic to shower before showing up to the interview.

The only part you're right about is that they DO pick the tech-illiterate chads and the extroverted soïbois for their promotional materials.

Except that you're wrong, and the chads and soi are flooding the companies more and more hence the no more CS needed stipulation that happened suddenly when the recruiters became stacified.

He'll get humiliating wedgies until his late 50's and his "wife" will finally resent him enough to leave him for a real man. That's when his doctor will announce him he got terminal prostate cancer because he atrophied his balls by respecting women too much and never getting sunlight or proper exercise. I'm honestly happier living my modest life than being even close to resembling to that emasculated "human". I'll keep beating them up when i see them GOD just seeing them walking with their lowered head like scared dogs makes me angry. Don't do this to yourselves guys, be better

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I haven't heard a single person who's been a programmer/software consultant for a bank and who has recommended it as a career path. Yes, the money's great and the budgets are humongous, but from what I've heard/seen it's like Intel cubicle meets Office Space: on top of the boring as shit technical stuff you also get to LARP as a paper pusher.

It's probably a win-win for people who enjoy a good 9-5, but it seemingly ain't for me.

Good on the people who did CS degrees and are living a fulfilled live
Good on the bootcamp App Makers and are living a fulfilled live
Shame on the neet turbodork who never had a job but are the first to have an opinion on what is a real or fake programmer

How many IT/software companies you've worked for? I've worked for 5 and have done consultation on several other ones, and what you're describing is an Jow Forums fever dream, not reality.

You pretty much just stay there and grind technical interviewing skills for a year or two, then move somewhere better. It's good for your bank account and for your resume. I know someone who started out at a bank and moved to a quant hedge fund after 2 years.

depends what you want to do. If you have an interest in systems programming not going to an opportunity to do that at a lot of places.

It's definitely good for your wallet. It's well-known that banks give a 50-70% boost to typical consultation rates.

Still I couldn't imagine myself spending my life writing software just to profiteer on imaginary wealth (mostly on other people's behalf at that), no matter how good the money was. I currently make six figures doing things that actually help and protect people.

You're absolutely right on that.

I'm self-taught and I fucking hate this website for bundling me in with the "How I learned coding in 6 months!" crowd. I work on fairly complicated backends and write native mobile apps; my most recent project required x86 assembly and detailed knowledge of the PE format to craft a replacement DLL that a very fussy legacy program could use. I actively de-emphasise any frontend work I do from my CV to avoid being labelled a "web developer".
And now this site exists, and hackernews is jumping all over it, and if it really takes off then potential employers/clients are going to start assuming "no BSCS=php+react coding boot camp webdev hack".

I think C is a useful baseline: If someone can't write a basic malloc implementation, they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves a professional software developer.

>I think C is a useful baseline: If someone can't write a basic malloc implementation, they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves a professional software developer.

I think software is now way too broad a field to try to construct gates and gatekeepers.

> Self-taught PHP
Jesus. Are you even trying? This is like prizing someone to learn how to eat with a spoon.
But you know. He probably knows more about scalability on high performance applications used by 300k people per day then i do with my CS Degree